The Ship Model Forum

Flemishng is shown in the 1943 BJM and we learned how to do, though I don't ever remember doing so except for decorative purposes though we did do ready lines this way in sailboat racing due to the restricted deck space.

Having flaked down a few lines over the 26 years I spent in the Navy, I'll observe that you don't need to have the lines perfect in colour - they are often stained. Sometimes rust, other times with paint (can't take them off when the ship's doing a paint routine alongside...you can only move them out of the way!) so while a hawser may start nice and clean and white, within a couple of months of use on a warship, they are no longer pristine, and after a year or two, they're looking well used.

Well done flaking them down in this scale though! Looks nicely done!

I do not recall ever Flemishing a line down though - must be a USN thing?

I always though three sheets to the wind meant the ship was off the wind , the sheets, on the downwind side no longer taught with the pull of the sail. Three sheets would refer to a schooner or other three masted sailing vessel? If a ship has the sheet on the upwind side it will be in irons, or having lost the fill of the sails, this can happen with a failed attempt to come about on a tack change. Also the ship can be headed into the wind to loose way rapidly. At any rate the sails are flapping uselessly, not providing propulsion and there is no steering control. Perhaps an apt description for someone who has lost directional and propulsive control.

I hadn't checked my edition of the BJM recently, mid 60's was published in 1957 and has illustrations of Lexington being abandoned etc. A much thinner volume than the 1943 edition, probably a result of a more specialized crew force with many individual manuals. Somewhere I had a WWII Radar operators manual from my dad's books. Somewhere I also had/have the Naval Officers Guide (Ageton) and Dutton (Navigation).

I'm wondering if a very light wash might be good to bring out the texture of the laid out lines?

Cheers: Tom

Tom,

I remember "faking" and "fake down" from the '60s and '70s. I also read a Bluejacket's Manual back in the '60s and got "faking" from it. "Flaking" just seems flaky to me. More of a lubber's term.

The same with "three/four sheets to the wind" and such. Sailing vessels had foresheets at the bow (flying jib, jib, fore staysail, etc) and when the ship was running into the wind (foresheets to the wind) and tacking it steered a zig-zag course - not a steady course. Drunken sailors returning to the ship after a hard night on the town also run an unsteady course - foresheets to the wind.

When I hear someone say "three sheets to the wind" or "four sheets to the wind" I know they are a lubber.

Phil

I tried flaking a rope, but ended up "Faking "it... Used thinned white glue (Actually Gorilla Glue). Seemed to work oK but weaker adhesion than the CA, but seems to be acceptable.

Flake it till ya can Fake it?

A great reference in the way things were in 1943, My dad 1943 Blue Jackets Manual. I have a thinner one from the mid 60's. All sorts of treasures in there, Tactics for landing assault parties, how to break down a 1903 Springfield, how to handle "Treasure" in a ships boat? The guys handling Queeg's case of Liquor over by Oakland should have read that part!

Note the price $1.25 POST PAID!

Tom

Phil:

Thanks for the hints about Shellac, I remember using a lot of shellac as a kid when I would carve boats out of Cedar. The think I liked about it was the drying speed! As to the discussion of Faking vis Flaking, we called it faking as does my era reference, Dad's 1943 Blue Jackets Manual, but yes I have also heard it called Flaking. Racing sailboats we usually flemished lines. I do remember discussions here about rope walks and various way various styles of lines were used in ships rigging. For good or bad, it's a pilot trait to keep moving at 500 knots and not get sidelined for months. I realize there are other valid opinions here. I'll try the shellac or maybe the white glue, I have both, a consideration is whether or not the bond between the threads will be strong enough to allow it to be pulled off the tape.

Yes in the 60's I remember working with Nylon lines and Hawsers, which usually strayed from a perfect dress white in short order. In climbing we were transitioning from Manila rope for glacier climbing, to a much stronger European climbing rope, Perlon by Mamut. This was a bunch of parallel strands covered by a woven sheath, which made for a stretchy rope, desirable for a more gentile "arrested landing" after a fall.

In other matters I got my copy of "Enemy Below" filmed in 1957 aboard USS Whitehurst, which in the 60's was Naval Reserve Ship based out of Pier 91 in Seattle. She had some chops, having sunk an I boat off Leyte and later taken a Kamikaze in the bridge at Kerama Reto. After repair at Pearl, power cable reels replaced torpedo tubes mid ships And her turbo electric drive unit was also capable of acting as a portable power plant. The film, especially the earlier parts, have really excellent sequences which can be striped for stills, a considerable aid for details. Also in transit from England, is the AOS book on "England", which was one hull number higher than Whitehurst. I believe England carried Hedgehog in the position of the 32 mount where as I don't believe Whitehurst ever carried Hedgehog. On elf the more interaction crew members was Harry Balschuseman, a BM1, who had been on Hornet when Doolittle raid was launched, at Midway and Santa Cruz when she was sunk. In the 60's the power cable reels were removed as was the 40 mm quad.

Cheers: Tom

Tom,

Those mooring lines look good! I think your choice of materials/colors is appropriate. The nylon mooring lines we used in the '60s were white (well, mostly!). The tan/gray/etc. would be more correct for the WWII era ships that your models comprise. The MISSOURI lines of course, would be appropriately nylon (white).

And you've developed a logical approach to making them that seems to be easy enough.

Hank

Tom,

The hard core sailing ship modelers on The Ship Model Forum (many make their own ropes) seem to prefer shellac or diluted white glue to fake/flake down and Flemish ropes. Or for any other requirement to "glue" ropes. Both methods have the advantage that they can be "unglued" for adjustment by applying the proper solvent (water for white glue and alcohol for shellac).

CA is avoided for just the reason you discovered - it doesn't stain. This is also true when working with wood. If any CA gets on the surface it changes the way the wood responds to stains and paint.

And some people do mix their own shellac from flakes (I have a bag in the refrigerator). Shellac has a limited shelf life after it is dissolved in alcohol. The flakes are good for a very long time if they are kept dry.

***

If you really want to get a silly argument going just ask which is correct, faking or flaking a rope.

Phil

A work in progress, I used white thread on the APA, simulating Nylon, but the WWII lines and hawsers were probably Hemp and Manila. Perhaps shellac or varnish might be a good binder, CA is hard to spread evenly. I do have some UV setting fly dope (For fishermen).

Tom

Very nice Tom!

Different types of faking down a rope are used, this one uses the style as shown in the 1943 Blue Jackets Manual. My dad often referred to the saying, "Right way, wrong way and the Navy Way"



A little un even in color due to CA, I might try doing a very minor wash to bring out texture, to be topped by a mat/dull coating. Quite easy to flatten these out when applied to the deck, ironing might work as well.

Cheers: Tom

Hemp hawsers should be set out by the special sea detail for mooring. A tan thread seems to replicate this fairly well. The real experts make their own rope walks. An effective way of making flaked or fleshed ropes to place on deck is to fix a masking tape sticky side up to a smooth surface. Tape can be use around the edges to hold the tape flat and secure. For flaking one can just press on the thread with a burnishers you lay it down. After completing the pattern, application of some thin CA (something like dull coat might work) the pattern can later be lifted off the tape by a blade passed underneath.

For flemishing the end of the thread can be tacked to the tape with a small drop of CA. Then a coil outward can be begun, pressing the thread into the tape as you go, again apply some CA or other fixative to hold the coils together.



Cheers: Tom

Depth of field is minuscule at this scale looking down the length of the ship if you are talking about the photo. As to keel blocks, a possibility though I like the effect of wood, perhaps a walnut stained darker, possibly something like Ebony, my local hardwood guy usually has various exotic stuff.

Cheers: Tom

Why not just print it?

Current status with some reworking of the pilot house front, well deck Carley Floats added as shown on my Caine Mutiny first edition dust jacket. These were very sleek ships, one can picture them slicing through the waves. As with many destroyers, not as maneuverable as they might be (thousand yard tactical radius at 30 knots).

Photo take using photo stacking to get depth of field, 10 photos (50 MB each) loaded into photoshop.

Cheers: Tom

Wah Hail! I contacted another case builder who seems popular with the model community. I was hopeful as he is a quick responder and had heard of UPS etc. However the shipping quote was $250, significantly more than the cost of the case. Generally Priority mail is a fraction of FEDUP shipping, not sure why but many businesses eschew their services, which are generally the best to the Northern Colonies.

May have to make my own case with wooden frame. I have all the equipment necessary.

Tom

I did find a DVD of Enemy Below, filmed back in 1957 with Robert Mitchum. Whitehurst served for many years as a Reserve training ship, mostly based out of Seattle, docked at Pier 90. Also found a copy of England AOS , cheaper by far in England than the USA. England was one hull number higher. Whitehurst did sink the I Boat sinker of Eversole off Leyte and shot down numerous airborne attackers, but was hit in the bridge by a Kamikaze at Kerama Reto off Okinawa. Back to Pearl and repaired, outfitted as a mobile power station with large cable reels where the tubes were mounted and sent back West. It is interesting that Randall, the LSM, Poseidon and Caine/Zane all served at Okinawa and were variously anchored in Kerama Reto.

As to the plexiglass cover for Caine, I attempted to order form an outfit, Pleximart. Got an email back, no shipping available. A little surprising as, even though still a colony in Alaska, we do use the US Dollar, have US Passports, service by the USPO and FEDUP etc. Perhaps I will Czech with local glass outfits.

Cheers: Tom

It's a good thing that most of the painting is complete on this model as I am running short on my home mixed grays currently. Mixing paints to get an exact match is possible but quite time consuming and any overshoots can result in use of a lot of material. Fortunately I have very accurate reflectance instruments to get the right density and the amount of blue and purple is fairly minor.

I would like to do another ship soon, but the DD and DE that I was associated with would only drown in a bath of other models. We really don't need another Fletcher. Perhaps the DE, Whitehurst might be a reasonable choice, maybe. The Movie "Enemy Below" was filmed aboard her and obtaining a copy might provide useful detail. Certainly Away All Boats helped with the APA project. She is only one hull number removed from the famous USS England.

Tom

Considering the keel block type base, though that gets a little complicated due to the quite rounded hull shape. I'll wait till the plexiglass Arrives (hopefully). So it it arrives, I'll make the base a bend to fit, paint to match.

Tom