The Ship Model Forum

Here are plans for Commandant Amyot d'Inville (1941):

http://www.servicehistorique.sga.defense.gouv.fr/02fonds-collections/banquedocuments/planbato/planbato/fichebato/fichbato.php?id=490

These might help.

Was the Captain was relieved for wrecking the pier?

The chaps at dutchfleet.net have passed on the information to the other forum (yet another one in the chain) where it was first posted, and they all whish to express their thanks to you guys for this inter-forum effort at naval sleuthing. :thumbs_up_1:

It's the french colonial sloop "Commandant Amyot d'Inville' (647tw, type Chamois). The picture has bee taken between 1948 and 1955

Yes that does look like A53. Thanks for posting that enlargement.

COMMANDANT AMYOT d'INVILLE, A 53, it is then.

The original file was not much bigger (1060 by 600[i] -ish[/i]), but here's a crude enlargement. I'm fairly certain that spells A53. The event itself I think is the grounding in the Suez canal mentioned in the operational history of the ship on the translated page.

A little more to pass on. Chris Wright clarified the the pendant numbers assigned for the three ships of this class completed AFTER WWII into mid-1948 were;

[b]In the system that existed through July 1948, BISSON was A 51, AMYOT d'INVILLE A 53, and de PIMODON A 52.[/b]

Since BISSON had a different configuration and the other two were nearly "twin sisters", it could be either ship.

Michel, if you could get a better ... higher resolution ... version of this photo and can read the pendant number, then the answer would be firm.

Thanks for solving that riddle, Rick! Very interesting indeed. :thumbs_up_1:

Jorit

Yes, yes, yes! Thanks sooo very much very the effort and the information, everyone. It's always good to have closure to such a vexing question. I'll inform the fellas on the Dutch forum where the images first surfaced. Thanks again!

Well, it appears there is an answer to this mystery. I sent a request to Chris Wright (Warship International editor) and Charles Haberlein (until recently retired, the NHHC Photo Collections director) and they narrowed down the candidates and found a likely ID.

From Charles Haberlein:

I'm far from an expert on things French (which this one certainly is), but my suspicion is that it's a Chamois class minesweeping sloop (Aviso de Deuxieme Classe to its proud owners). My trusty 1950 "Flottes de Combat" lists seven of the suckers (with pendant numbers): Chevreuil (A 10), Gaxelle (A 08), Annamite (A 09), Bisson (A 05), Commandant Ducuing (no number given), Commandant Amyot d'Inville (A 07) and Commandant De Pimodan (A 06). The first three listed were completed before the Germans made France their own, and the last four entered service after the nice Germans went back to the Fatherland. "Flottes de Combat"'s drawing & photo of Bisson does not look like the ship in the photo, but its sketch of Commandant de Pimodan resembles it reasonably well and [b][size=150]its photo of Commandant Amyot d'Inville is nearly a spitting image.[/size][/b] But for the fact that I don't know the subject very well, and don't have access to photos of all of the class, I'd be inclined to put my money on the latter.

From Chris Wright:

Kudos to Mr. Haberlein. It happens that our eminent French friends have published a superb and definitive volume on "Les Avisos-Drageurs Coloniaux de 647tW du Type Chamois", written by Charles Salou and published this year by Editions Lela presse. It describes these vessels in copious detail (available to all at 42 Euros per copy.) [b][size=150]The vessel in question almost certainly is Commandant Amyot d'Inville, wearing pendant A53 in the photos in this French book[/size][/b]. That number looks like it could match what you have. The only other possibility is Commandant de Pimodon, but the photos in the book lack any pendant number on the hull where it appears in your photo. Plus the Pimodon 1947 photo lacks the 20-mm guns on the forward deckhouse, though they were added by the early 50s (and by which time the bridgeword was modified noticeably.) The forward deckhouse and bridge of the two vessels, both built by the same yard, look essentially identical as completed. Both received the same hull paint scheme upon completion. And the two headed out together at the end of 1947 to Vietnam, returning to metropolitan France in 1950 (Pimodon) and 1955 (Amyot d'Inville).

Looking up via Google for Commandant Amyot d'Inville, I found this website ... http://www.netmarine.net/bat/avisos/amyotdinville/ancien.htm ...

(English translation ... http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=fr&u=http://www.netmarine.net/bat/avisos/amyotdinville/ancien.htm&ei=bKumTOPEBsP_lgeDxPQX&sa=X&oi=translate&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CBYQ7gEwAA&prev=/search%3Fq%3DCommandant%2BAmyot%2Bd%2527Inville%26hl%3Den%26client%3Dsafari%26rls%3Den%26prmd%3Div ...)

The mystery "escort" is a pre-war built (or completed from one post-war) French Navy warship in the immediate post-war era, I'm pretty sure of that.

1) The camo scheme was standard for post-war French warships and the location of the hull number (right on the line between the two hull colors) is in-line with French practice as well. (Post-war photos of French warships in reference books like JANES FIGHTING SHIPS clearly show this.)

2) The gun mount looks like one of the standard 100-mm guns and has the late-war/post-war rocket launcher racks mounted on the mount.

3) The two 20-mm guns in front of the bridge have the standard USN shields (the RN could have used these as well I guess).

The problem with me identifying the ship is that I don't have a good database of photos for French post-war ships. I keep swinging back and forth, but I'm thinking more and more that your mystery ship is a unit of the MELPOMENE Class of Light Destroyers. Here is a photo of this class pre-war I found on World Naval Ships Forum. Comparing the two photos show some similarities (Fire Control Director, 100-mm gun, general hull design, etc), but the forward bridge area would have needed to have been altered (in RN service?). The references I have state that six units were taken over by the RN, one was lost. The remaining five (BOUCLIER, La FLORE, La MELPOMENE, La CORDELIERE, AND L'INCOMPRISE) were returned to France after the war ... but it is unclear if they had any service before being scrapped in 1950.

[img]http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p303/TincanREDavis/Melpomeneclass.jpg[/img]

[quote="bengtsson"]I'm short for time right now, but this ship has some strong similarities to WWII Soviet Destroyers . It is clearly post war. The gun mount, and the bridge, the step in the hull all fit. Including the wind baffles at the top of the bridge. It's a path worth looking into. The background looks very Leningrad as well.

Bob B.[/quote]

Now that you mentioned it...yes, the bridge somehow looks soviet design but what about the AA guns? Did they have 20mm (if those are Oerlikons in the photo at all) installed in their ships. Also the camo ship doesn't look the standard soviet schemes. Still, bridge looks either Soviet or Italian design to me. Will have to take a better look on my books this weekend to see if I find something.

[quote="Russ2146"]
Then I thought of one of the "Captain Class" ...
[/quote]

Which happens to be a US DE... :wink: :big_grin:

This is really an interesting riddle - I still have no idea what that could be.

Jorit

From: David Page <david@navyphotos.co.uk>View Contact
To: RAMoody <russ2146@yahoo.com>
Hi Russ,

It's a bit of pity that the angle is so foreshortened as it looks as if there could be a Pennant No. on her side. The shape of her forward mounting looks a bit on the lines of an RN one and there is a seaman standing nearby in what could be a white RN hat and a boiler suit.

I did think it may have been one of the U.S built versions of the "River Class", known to us as the "Colony Class", but she seems too short for that. Then I thought of one of the "Captain Class" as she does look a bit on those lines with the rounded front to the bridge and the twin oerlikons in front of it, but I think most of them had superimposed forward guns and this one looks to have only the one mounting.

About the best I could suggest you try now is to go to this site from here http://www.worldnavalships.com/forums/ and put your photo and question in the relevant section. I think you would get an answer back in a few days, certainly her type, if not the whole "where, why, who, how and when" !!

Sorry I can't be of more help but do let me know how you get on with your search.

Best wishes,

Dave.

I'm short for time right now, but this ship has some strong similarities to WWII Soviet Destroyers . It is clearly post war. The gun mount, and the bridge, the step in the hull all fit. Including the wind baffles at the top of the bridge. It's a path worth looking into. The background looks very Leningrad as well.

Bob B.

I'm sure your puzzle ship isn't one of the four large destroyers of the Le Fantasque class (of which Le Triomphant is one). They all retained the superimposed gun post-war and the size/configuration are different. Right now, I suspect that the your photo is of one of the few surviving Sloops (maybe Chamois class ... CHEVEREUIL??) or small/light destroyers (La Melpomne class ... less likely) ... but which one is a puzzle to me. I don't have enough photos in my reference books to cover them all or the post-war modifications. The 1953-54 and 1959-60 JANE'S FIGHTING SHIPS has some possibilities, but none show a 100-mm gun forward of the bridge as in your photo. But, replacing that gun with a smaller caliber AA-gun could have been an alteration made after the photo was taken.

Now, if someone can confirm that one of those French ships got a postwar refit where the B gun was replaced with light AA, and name the ship?

Well, actually most of the pre-war French Destroyers were not flush-deckers.

Le Triomphant on 17 April 1944 at Boston Navy Yard one of the large French destroyers. When I saw the above mystery photo, I was reminded of this photo, but the mystery ship is smaller. But you can see similarity in design features. Both photos below courtesy of the Charlestown National Park.

[img]http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p303/TincanREDavis/FFNLeTriomphantx22BosNPS-17Apr44.jpg[/img]

[img]http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p303/TincanREDavis/FFNLeTriomphantx20BosNPS-17Apr44.jpg[/img]

[quote="Pieter"]I think it's one of the early post war French ocean escorts . Though the gun makes it look like one of the Italian Gabbianos. They were given high open bridges post WW2.[/quote]

Weren't the French ships flush-deckers?

Gabbiano sounds interesting; I can't find a picture of these right now.

Jorit

I think it's one of the early post war French ocean escorts . Though the gun makes it look like one of the Italian Gabbianos. They were given high open bridges post WW2.