The Ship Model Forum

The experience Mike describes happened to me with Revel paint and Tamiya tape. It has never happend to me with WEM paint. I put this down to a combination of the ratio of the base coat and the stickiness of the tape.

The best masking tape I have found is that sold by automotive suppliers in inch wide rolls. And it's cheap!

Rob

HI Bruno,
No need to apologise, I don't know where my name is from either!
Mike

[quote="mike mccabe"]HI Bruno
I think what I mean is that things can go wrong even when you think you have done everything correctly, so I find using primer is one less risk to take. Probably Ireland rather than Scotland but it could also have been our delightfully damp welsh weather...
Mike[/quote]

:Oops_1: :bash_2: :Oops_1:

Sorry...

Bruno,
aka. "the uncultivated".

[quote="bruno"][quote="mike mccabe"]Hi Bruno
I use an airbrush and at the pace I work the paint always has time to dry! As I just said I used WEM colourcoats and Tamiya masking tape so should be no problem with materials. Experience has taught me that if things can go wrong they will, but I have found that using primer saves a lot of difficulty later on.

Mike[/quote]

Hi Mike,

Then I do not know... Perhaps grease on the plastic, or some kind of curse from a masked ghost escaped from that site... After all... You'recloser from scotland than I, aren't you ... :lol_1: :lol_1: :lol_1:

Bruno[/quote]


The other thing you have to remember is static, the more you rub the more it builds up, and affects the paint. ARH

HI Bruno
I think what I mean is that things can go wrong even when you think you have done everything correctly, so I find using primer is one less risk to take. Probably Ireland rather than Scotland but it could also have been our delightfully damp welsh weather...
Mike

[quote="mike mccabe"]Hi Bruno
I use an airbrush and at the pace I work the paint always has time to dry! As I just said I used WEM colourcoats and Tamiya masking tape so should be no problem with materials. Experience has taught me that if things can go wrong they will, but I have found that using primer saves a lot of difficulty later on.

Mike[/quote]

Hi Mike,

Then I do not know... Perhaps grease on the plastic, or some kind of curse from a masked ghost escaped from that site... After all... You'recloser from scotland than I, aren't you ... :lol_1: :lol_1: :lol_1:

Bruno

Hi Bruno
I use an airbrush and at the pace I work the paint always has time to dry! As I just said I used WEM colourcoats and Tamiya masking tape so should be no problem with materials. Experience has taught me that if things can go wrong they will, but I have found that using primer saves a lot of difficulty later on.

Mike

[quote="mike mccabe"][quote="John @ WEM"]Well, if you're using our Colourcoats enamels, you don't have to: Colourcoats are self-etching on plastic.[/quote]

That's what I was using when I had the problem I referred to

Mike[/quote]

How much time did your problem occur after ending paint session ?
How did it happened ? Nail hurting ? unmasking ? handling ?

Was it dry enough ? :roll_eyes:

My 2 cents,

Bruno.

[quote="John @ WEM"]Well, if you're using our Colourcoats enamels, you don't have to: Colourcoats are self-etching on plastic.[/quote]

That's what I was using when I had the problem I referred to

Mike

:mad_1: :mad_1: :mad_1: :mad_1: There is a curse on me :mad_1: :mad_1: :mad_1:

The masked timeout ghost hit another time.

Is there some trouble using a linux 2.6.x stuff powering a mozilla 1.7.8 browser on this site ?

So bad,

Bruno,
victim of a conspiracy.

[quote="mike mccabe"]I have had problems in the past of paint not adhering to the plastic even when cleaned, this is especially the case if you use masking tape for camoflage schemes.
.../...
Mike[/quote]

Hello Mike and all,

Even is somewhat new to Warship modelling, I have had some experience about this and the solution is in the tape you use depending on the paint, it's thinning degree when applied, and the time you let it dry.

Even if dry "on touch" in a few minutes, acrylic deep structure need longer to be really hard.

Best (or worst) exemple of this is Vallejo/Prince August Air line of paint :

It is dry "on touch" about two minutes...
... but needs 1 day at least to be really strong.

If you put masking on it (or even handle the painted parts too strong) the paint will leave.

This is an extreme example. If you are using more common (and efficient) paints such as
Gunze or Tamiya, the problem will be really more lowest : At middle thinning and aero layering you can mask safely after about 30 minutes.

The thing is that paint first dry at their surface, then with time, deeper and depper up to the moment it will reach the paint in direct contact with plastic. The thicker the paint, the longer the drying time... difference with acrylics, is that when touching theim their surface is dry far before the full paint is completly dry... If you mask then... well...

Proof is the HMS Onslow I plan to post soon : I used Gunze, well thinned, with several thin regular layers.Then I masked the hull and superstructure as I worked, so no more than ~20 minutes after full colors sprays from part to part.

No primer was used and it went really nicely.

The second key I think is the kind of tape you use. If it "stick" too strong it will scratch your paint if not (deeply) dry enough. IMHO, Tamiya yellow masking tape is the best, but is more expensive than standard scotch or whatever.

One trick is that the strength of "sticking" can be modified simply : Find a clean window, or the glass workbench part everybody should have, then stick and unstick your tape on it several time, at different locations each time. This will lower its sticking power.

Last point is, when masking, remeber that only the "junction" between the to be protected and to be painted area needs real sticking of the tape : so do not press too strongly your tape on your paint, except that thin frontier. (I use a wet wood tooth-pick for that)

Obviously, this is not to say that priming is unusefull : In other things, white priming is a way to increase the lightness of colours when used thinned, to check (and somewhat rectify in some case) for surface uniformity before painting, and is fundamental in artist oil painting of miniatures.

Simply, to the question of "is priming unavoidable to have good paint adherence" I think the answer is not obviously yes.

After that, it's up to everybody to make it's mind about it, test the stuff, and develop it's own experience... :shipcaptain:

Only important thing is the hobby, isn't it ? :mrgreen:

Bruno.

I use Testor's White Primer. Usually use Tamiya colors. :wave_1:

[quote="John @ WEM"] Colourcoats are self-etching on plastic.[/quote]

Absolutely.

Rob

Well, if you're using our Colourcoats enamels, you don't have to: Colourcoats are self-etching on plastic.

I have had problems in the past of paint not adhering to the plastic even when cleaned, this is especially the case if you use masking tape for camoflage schemes. On occasion I have had whole sections of the paint lift off when the masking tape is removed. I know use a plastic primer which comes in an aerosol from car repair shops. About five pounds a can and it lasts a long time. Just don't spray it too close to the model as the spray is quite heavy compared to an airbrush. For the little it costs per model it is a much better option than trying to hide damaged paintwork.

Mike

[quote="djphillyk"]How necessary is it to use a primer paint on a plastic kit? What do you personally use to get optimal results?[/quote]

As far I never used priming on the models I builded, and I never had troubles.
One important thing I do on the other hand before starting a model is to clean
it with water (not too hot) and dish(?) soap with an old tooth-brush.
This is cleaning plastic parts from potential grease used in the mold.
Even if required mainly on short run stuffs it is not that time consumming, and
makes me comfortable with paint adhesion.

The only exception is if you use hand painting acrylics such as Vallejo/prince-august.
Those one will hardly stick on plastic. So a spray of a MAT Enamel layer of white should
help.

I mainly work with airbrushed acrylic paints (Gunze, Tamiya ) and use Vallejo paints only
for wethearing or detailing an ever sprayed color, so I never nedded a priming yet.

HTH,

Cheers,

Bruno.

...

How necessary is it to use a primer paint on a plastic kit? What do you personally use to get optimal results?