The Ship Model Forum

[quote="Killerbeans"]I'm curious if the USN used a standardized compass? I following a couple of carrier builds here, I got to wondering. An unusual rig, what with steering levers and the compass seperated. Was this the same on Lex?
I notice the base kit is a decent start, but once one digs into the details...[/quote]
Short answer to both questions is "yes". The drawing below is from [i]Lexington[/i]'s General Arrangement Plan. The protective housing around the actual compass itself is called a "binnacle". The binnacle typically includes a lamp which illuminates the compass so it can be read during periods of limited visibility. The two balls on each side are iron "correcting spheres" which help compensate for any magnetic deviation caused by metal objects near the binnacle such as the ship itself. The US Navy typically sourced binnacles from civilian contractors such as the A. Lietz Company which made the binnacle shown below. Binnacles were made to meet Navy specs.

Large ships often had more than one binnacle. [i]Lexington[/i] had at least two, one inside the pilot house near the helm, and another on the platform aft of the bridge. Ships with an emergency control station or separate armored conning tower station were likely to have a binnacle inside that station as well.

On some ships like RMS [i]Titanic[/i], a binnacle was sited on an elevated platform as shown in the photo below.

The Trumpeter [i]Saratoga[/i] and [i]Lexington[/i] kits are indeed good starting points and the hull shape is good. The kits can be made into decent replicas out of box. But the kits do have some conspicuous inaccuracies such as odd features and the shape of the island, funnel and rudder are off.

I'm curious if the USN used a standardized compass? I following a couple of carrier builds here, I got to wondering. An unusual rig, what with steering levers and the compass seperated. Was this the same on Lex?
I notice the base kit is a decent start, but once one digs into the details...

[quote="Killerbeans"]So, just need one in 1/350....[/quote]

I may be able to help with that. Please allow me the weekend to work on it.

So, just need one in 1/350....

[quote="Killerbeans"] Interesting that the compass would be out in the weather.[/quote]
The compass was magnetically operated and needed to be as far from masses of steel as possible on an all-steel ship.

Thank you both for the photos, they are great help. It's a great help to see the size relationships and general arrangment. Interesting that the compass would be out in the weather. I'm working my way up the bridge, next stop: "Compass bridge! Need to figure out rangefinder bit, and then upward.

Here' are a couple of good photos of the flag lockers. They extend quite far below deck. The small, narrow platform that extends rearward between them like a diving board held a ship's standard compass.

Hope this helps!

Thank you! They are mirror imaged, top/bottom, so I was not sure about them. The kit part should probably be cut off flash with underside of the deck. The wee platform is for signal flags then. Makes sense.

[quote="Killerbeans"]Continuing on the bridge: can anyone shed light on the two boxes on the aft end of the Nav bridge? These flank the small platform that juts out aft. Some sort of trunking? There is nothing on the underside of the deck, or connecting bits.
I also see the windows frames are quite thinner then depicted by the kit parts, at least in '37- '38.[/quote]

That's an easy one (if you're asking about the bottom photo just above your question. Those are flag boxes for signal flags.

Hope that helps!

Continuing on the bridge: can anyone shed light on the two boxes on the aft end of the Nav bridge? These flank the small platform that juts out aft. Some sort of trunking? There is nothing on the underside of the deck, or connecting bits.
I also see the windows frames are quite thinner then depicted by the kit parts, at least in '37- '38.

Here are some photos that may be helpful, taken about 1934-1936.

No vertical ladders are visible in the photos but photo quality might obscure any that are present. General arrangement drawings for [i]Lexington[/i] show one vertical ladder on the port side of her flag bridge. Perhaps [i]Sara[/i] had one there, too.

The object on the roof of the flag bridge is actually a 20' rangefinder. [i]Saratoga[/i] was not fit with radar in 1936. In late 1941, she received her first radar set, a CXAM-1. At bottom is a good photo of sistership [i]Lexington[/i]'s 20' rangefinder.

Hope this helps.

For clarity, the flag bridge is lengthened, leaving enough room to walk on fwd end. That fwd splintershield looks flat to my eye, no angled aspect in the center. The house has to be long enough to fit the radar bit, yet still fit the next layer up, the compass bridge? Also, any photos that show vertical ladders?

Steve, thanks for the timely reply. I have the Squadron at Sea for reference, and it has a plan from '36, which, when compared to photos, shows the extended flag bridge, with the radar bit above, on the roof. I in-dented the O-1level, so it is symetrical, and am working my way up. I'm shooting for the operational window where monoplanes were introduced, and bipes being phased out, so a narrow window.

[quote="Dick J"][quote="Killerbeans"]Apologies if this has been answered, but is there an approximate year/date for the Trumpeter Saratoga kit?
I hope this is ok to ask here.[/quote]
Early 1932 or before. Her flag bridge was enlarged in early 1932 and her rangefinder relocated a deck level higher. The kit lacks the expanded flag bridge.[/quote]
Concur.

The Trumpeter kit's island is actually a better representation of [i]Lexington[/i]'s island circa 1932, not [i]Saratoga[/i]. Compared to [i]Saratoga[/i]'s actual island, the kit's island has a kind of a mix of features making it not entirely accurate for any year or even for [i]Saratoga[/i]. For example, the small flag bridge is accurate for 1932 just as Dick said but the venturi around the pilot house didn't appear until 1936 on [i]Saratoga[/i]. The venturi was present on [i]Lexington[/i] from about 1932. And the deck and splinter shielding shape of the starboard side of the navigating bridge deck are correct for [i]Lexington[/i], not [i]Saratoga[/i]. [i]Lexington[/i]'s starboard side navigating bridge deck was straight. [i]Saratoga[/i]'s was recessed inward.

About 1932, both ships had a small, boxy station suspended from the fighting top called a "Radio-Compass Booth". The Trumpeter kit is missing this feature. Photos indicate that this station was removed from [i]Saratoga[/i] about 1933.

The kit includes F3F, BFC, SBU and TG-1/2 (T4M) aircraft. This poses a bit of an accuracy conundrum with respect to the island since they served aboard circa 1937-1938.
F3F: 1937-1938
BFC: 1937
SBU: 1937
TG-1/2 (T4M): 1930-1937

For modelers who want better accuracy for either ship, we offer several different islands and funnels for both Lexington-class ships as they appeared throughout their service lives. To better match the air group provided in the kit, we recommend replacing the kit's island with one of our 1936-1940 islands. Either [i]Lexington[/i] or [i]Saratoga[/i] can be built with from the Trumpeter kit.

[quote="Killerbeans"]Apologies if this has been answered, but is there an approximate year/date for the Trumpeter Saratoga kit?
I hope this is ok to ask here.[/quote]
Early 1932 or before. Her flag bridge was enlarged in early 1932 and her rangefinder relocated a deck level higher. The kit lacks the expanded flag bridge.

Apologies if this has been answered, but is there an approximate year/date for the Trumpeter Saratoga kit?
I hope this is ok to ask here.

Thank you for the pics. The miracle of Kodachrome, yet again. I'm trying to figure out a realistic way to weather the landing areas, thinking they would have more wear. I've got the base pretty close, given the many variables involved.
The grey for "vertical surfaces" I think can be pushed & pulled, slightly lighter and darker, when closer to completion. The decks might be more difficult to weather.
I'm guessing all the carrier photos are from Enterprise in 1941?

Flight deck would be mahogany deck stain with yellow markings.

[u]Examples:[/u]

http://images.google.com/hosted/life/286a3c259451a27d.html
http://images.google.com/hosted/life/99d275586ac9ec92.html
http://images.google.com/hosted/life/17e4406559b16bd0.html

So, she was light grey/ deck grey until the mid '41 refit?
I'm aiming for '38-'39 period when she carried biplanes and monoplanes.

She had MS-1 from the end of her refit in mid '41 (when she had the bow widened, flightdeck extended aft, and the AA upgrades) until her Oct-Nov update (which switched the 3" guns for quad 1,1's and added life rafts). Photos suggest MS-11 after that, but clear overall shots during the period are lacking, so the actual MS is unproven. Whether in sea blue or navy blue is also unresolved. This later update is why she was still on the west coast on Dec 7th.