The Ship Model Forum

Thank you again for the help! The good news is that the GMM Saratoga pe was restocked at Squadron; there will be some fiddley pe work ahead of me, not the least of which is the correct, swagged, chain rails for the gun galleries. My squadron book has a couple good photos, so that should be straight forward. The bridge and funnel, a bit more thought required. I thought WNW kits required planning...

If you are talking about the objects on the very top of the tripod, the circular areas held the "altimeter" portion of the MK-19 AA director system. A photo of one is at the bottom of page 99 in Stern's [i]Lexington Class Carriers[/i] book. Each was paired with a main director element and these were located on that same foretop between the altimeters. Another set of directors was on the upper platform at the back of the stack. MK-19 directors on the Pensacola and Northampton class cruisers, as well those on many of the pre-war battleships, had been combined into a rotating structure more in line with how we now would expect a director to look prior to the outbreak of war.

Here are some MK-19's on Northampton. https://www.navsource.net/archives/04/026/0402626.jpg The circular extensions aft of the directors were for the altimeters, which have obviously not yet been installed.

Early photos of [i]Lexington[/i] appear to show the station with the most clarity.

The circular platforms in those photos appear to be surrounded with 2-bar rail covered in canvas. The rails appear to flare outwards slightly at the top. The structures on [i]Saratoga[/i] in 1936 appear to be similar if not identical.

The photos suggest that the circular platforms could rotate since the opening in the railings appears at different clock positions in different photos.

Thank you. Link changed. Most photos are long distance it seems.

did you select the correct navsource as it has a slightly different domain name then what it was before?
https://www.navsource.net/archives/02/03.htm

Yet another question. At the top of the bridge stucture is a
Platform with two round structures, one to either side. Depending on the photo, they look solid or have railings. My guess is canvas wind cheaters. I'm not even sure what they were for in 1938. Photos are not clear and NavSource seems down. Any help appreciated.

[quote="Killerbeans"]I'm curious if the USN used a standardized compass? I following a couple of carrier builds here, I got to wondering. An unusual rig, what with steering levers and the compass seperated. Was this the same on Lex?
I notice the base kit is a decent start, but once one digs into the details...[/quote]
Short answer to both questions is "yes". The drawing below is from [i]Lexington[/i]'s General Arrangement Plan. The protective housing around the actual compass itself is called a "binnacle". The binnacle typically includes a lamp which illuminates the compass so it can be read during periods of limited visibility. The two balls on each side are iron "correcting spheres" which help compensate for any magnetic deviation caused by metal objects near the binnacle such as the ship itself. The US Navy typically sourced binnacles from civilian contractors such as the A. Lietz Company which made the binnacle shown below. Binnacles were made to meet Navy specs.

Large ships often had more than one binnacle. [i]Lexington[/i] had at least two, one inside the pilot house near the helm, and another on the platform aft of the bridge. Ships with an emergency control station or separate armored conning tower station were likely to have a binnacle inside that station as well.

On some ships like RMS [i]Titanic[/i], a binnacle was sited on an elevated platform as shown in the photo below.

The Trumpeter [i]Saratoga[/i] and [i]Lexington[/i] kits are indeed good starting points and the hull shape is good. The kits can be made into decent replicas out of box. But the kits do have some conspicuous inaccuracies such as odd features and the shape of the island, funnel and rudder are off.

I'm curious if the USN used a standardized compass? I following a couple of carrier builds here, I got to wondering. An unusual rig, what with steering levers and the compass seperated. Was this the same on Lex?
I notice the base kit is a decent start, but once one digs into the details...

[quote="Killerbeans"]So, just need one in 1/350....[/quote]

I may be able to help with that. Please allow me the weekend to work on it.

So, just need one in 1/350....

[quote="Killerbeans"] Interesting that the compass would be out in the weather.[/quote]
The compass was magnetically operated and needed to be as far from masses of steel as possible on an all-steel ship.

Thank you both for the photos, they are great help. It's a great help to see the size relationships and general arrangment. Interesting that the compass would be out in the weather. I'm working my way up the bridge, next stop: "Compass bridge! Need to figure out rangefinder bit, and then upward.

Here' are a couple of good photos of the flag lockers. They extend quite far below deck. The small, narrow platform that extends rearward between them like a diving board held a ship's standard compass.

Hope this helps!

Thank you! They are mirror imaged, top/bottom, so I was not sure about them. The kit part should probably be cut off flash with underside of the deck. The wee platform is for signal flags then. Makes sense.

[quote="Killerbeans"]Continuing on the bridge: can anyone shed light on the two boxes on the aft end of the Nav bridge? These flank the small platform that juts out aft. Some sort of trunking? There is nothing on the underside of the deck, or connecting bits.
I also see the windows frames are quite thinner then depicted by the kit parts, at least in '37- '38.[/quote]

That's an easy one (if you're asking about the bottom photo just above your question. Those are flag boxes for signal flags.

Hope that helps!

Continuing on the bridge: can anyone shed light on the two boxes on the aft end of the Nav bridge? These flank the small platform that juts out aft. Some sort of trunking? There is nothing on the underside of the deck, or connecting bits.
I also see the windows frames are quite thinner then depicted by the kit parts, at least in '37- '38.

Here are some photos that may be helpful, taken about 1934-1936.

No vertical ladders are visible in the photos but photo quality might obscure any that are present. General arrangement drawings for [i]Lexington[/i] show one vertical ladder on the port side of her flag bridge. Perhaps [i]Sara[/i] had one there, too.

The object on the roof of the flag bridge is actually a 20' rangefinder. [i]Saratoga[/i] was not fit with radar in 1936. In late 1941, she received her first radar set, a CXAM-1. At bottom is a good photo of sistership [i]Lexington[/i]'s 20' rangefinder.

Hope this helps.

For clarity, the flag bridge is lengthened, leaving enough room to walk on fwd end. That fwd splintershield looks flat to my eye, no angled aspect in the center. The house has to be long enough to fit the radar bit, yet still fit the next layer up, the compass bridge? Also, any photos that show vertical ladders?

Steve, thanks for the timely reply. I have the Squadron at Sea for reference, and it has a plan from '36, which, when compared to photos, shows the extended flag bridge, with the radar bit above, on the roof. I in-dented the O-1level, so it is symetrical, and am working my way up. I'm shooting for the operational window where monoplanes were introduced, and bipes being phased out, so a narrow window.

[quote="Dick J"][quote="Killerbeans"]Apologies if this has been answered, but is there an approximate year/date for the Trumpeter Saratoga kit?
I hope this is ok to ask here.[/quote]
Early 1932 or before. Her flag bridge was enlarged in early 1932 and her rangefinder relocated a deck level higher. The kit lacks the expanded flag bridge.[/quote]
Concur.

The Trumpeter kit's island is actually a better representation of [i]Lexington[/i]'s island circa 1932, not [i]Saratoga[/i]. Compared to [i]Saratoga[/i]'s actual island, the kit's island has a kind of a mix of features making it not entirely accurate for any year or even for [i]Saratoga[/i]. For example, the small flag bridge is accurate for 1932 just as Dick said but the venturi around the pilot house didn't appear until 1936 on [i]Saratoga[/i]. The venturi was present on [i]Lexington[/i] from about 1932. And the deck and splinter shielding shape of the starboard side of the navigating bridge deck are correct for [i]Lexington[/i], not [i]Saratoga[/i]. [i]Lexington[/i]'s starboard side navigating bridge deck was straight. [i]Saratoga[/i]'s was recessed inward.

About 1932, both ships had a small, boxy station suspended from the fighting top called a "Radio-Compass Booth". The Trumpeter kit is missing this feature. Photos indicate that this station was removed from [i]Saratoga[/i] about 1933.

The kit includes F3F, BFC, SBU and TG-1/2 (T4M) aircraft. This poses a bit of an accuracy conundrum with respect to the island since they served aboard circa 1937-1938.
F3F: 1937-1938
BFC: 1937
SBU: 1937
TG-1/2 (T4M): 1930-1937

For modelers who want better accuracy for either ship, we offer several different islands and funnels for both Lexington-class ships as they appeared throughout their service lives. To better match the air group provided in the kit, we recommend replacing the kit's island with one of our 1936-1940 islands. Either [i]Lexington[/i] or [i]Saratoga[/i] can be built with from the Trumpeter kit.