The Ship Model Forum

Well ... depending when drawings were copied to microfilm they can be paper or mylar. As ships were modified, depending on how extensive the mods were, new drawings at times were generated. So, even WWII era ships may have drawings done on mylar. At NARA when you pull ship drawings, what you get varies. Most USN ship, drawings available are BGP's on blueprint paper. But every so often you get "original" paper or mylar drawings, used to make blueprints for general distribution. Pre-WWII and during the war, copies of drawings for EVERY SHIP was sent to EVERY NAVY SHIP YARD, plus other locations like major Operating Bases. Even if a given ship was home ported at one yard, the Navy never knew where a ship could need repairs. These huge piles of drawings was why the USN started making microfilm copies to reduce the bulk. But, at least one set (and I suspect more than one set was kept) of original drawings (paper or mylar) were kept at BuShips/Home Ports. The drawings that NARA received, come from various USN sources. In some folders, they can have multiple copies of the same blueprint BGP's.

I began my engineering career as a draftsman in the caveman era before CAD using pencils or ink on paper or mylar. :big_grin:

Ian,

The microfilm images won't be as sharp and clear as the original drawings on Mylar/Paper. But, those drawings likely don't exist any longer. But, I found that with the better optics and digital scanning, they are generally quite useable.

Rick

[quote="Rick E Davis"]Ian,

You may find that the "original" microfilm copies at NARA are better than the scanned version done by a vendor. The method some vendors use is more of a high speed "camera" copy as would be done with a film.

NARA has newer microfilm readers that will make digital copies direct from a single frame of the microfilm and that allows you to crop and enlarge what you are scanning and save as a digital file. I had some paper copies I made with the old microfilm readers with a paper print function, and then used the new reader/scanner and compared the two and it was amazing how much better the digital copy is.[/quote]

Thanks Rick, if so that is great news... I hope to get there at some point next year.

---

And agreed with Fliger on the photos, I just wish there were more angles taken that day! The Life photo tool shows the "related images" on the right side of the page, but these only seem to be 4 images each time... there is no way to see all the photos in the series.

I've seen most of the Life photos before, but these are higher quality. If taken by a Life Photographer probably taken with a high quality 4x5 press camera or a 6x6 cm roll film camera (Roloflex etc).

Always good to see new images!

Ian,

You may find that the "original" microfilm copies at NARA are better than the scanned version done by a vendor. The method some vendors use is more of a high speed "camera" copy as would be done with a film.

NARA has newer microfilm readers that will make digital copies direct from a single frame of the microfilm and that allows you to crop and enlarge what you are scanning and save as a digital file. I had some paper copies I made with the old microfilm readers with a paper print function, and then used the new reader/scanner and compared the two and it was amazing how much better the digital copy is.

That was my thought as well...

Unrelated but I found several neat shots of ALASKA and GUAM in the Life photo archive now hosted on Google:

http://images.google.com/hosted/life/9135d8b96af48d28.html << Looking down into the air defense level from the foremast -- I believe this to be taken aboard GUAM (with ALASKA berthed to starboard and a JUNEAU class CLAA outboard of ALASKA in the other photos) -- the top of the Nancy X-2A beacon is visible here. I have never seen this angle before

http://www.gstatic.com/hostedimg/55bb905ef6f00b9b_large << another angle of the shot of ALASKA's forward superstructure, showing the TDY jammer support ahead of the air defense station (barely visible at the top) and the wire receiving antennas with their insulators also connected to the air defense level venturi

http://www.gstatic.com/hostedimg/e1e3846e851ee62e_large << another angle of the same shot, with more of the number 2 turret visible and the ship's port catapult -- and the top of the TDY S-band jammer radome just inboard of the port catapult

http://www.gstatic.com/hostedimg/b0cdd3e0fca1f5bc_large << looking aft from the foremast SK radar platform (I assume the photographer was trying to get a clearer shot of NORTH CAROLINA and WASHINGTON aft), showing the no.2 SG radar very well

[quote="Rick E Davis"]Yes photos that were "released" to the news media were often censored for anything considered sensitive. However, many photos found at NARA from official USN files, are not censored.

Ian is likely right about when and where the TDY-1 and other RCM gear was installed. I have two photos of USS ALASKA at Hunter's Point Navy Yard "dated" the first week in January 1945. See attached. USS ALASKA went in for a brief availability. She has been repainted into Ms 22. A side note; Note in the second photo the cross marks at the top of the photo, this was done by the censor indicating that the antennas should be deleted in the "public released" images.

DANFS Entry;

[i]Alaska departed Philadelphia on 12 November 1944 for the Caribbean, in company with Thomas E. Fraser (DM-24), and, after two weeks of standardization trials out of Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, sailed for the Pacific on 2 December. She completed her transit of the Panama Canal on 4 December, and reached San Diego on the 12th. Thereafter, the new large cruiser trained in shore bombardment and anti-aircraft firing off San Diego [b]before an availability at Hunter's Point, near San Francisco.[/b]

On [b]8 January 1945[/b], Alaska sailed for Hawaii, and reached Pearl Harbor on the 13th, where, on the 27th, Capt. Kenneth M.Noble relieved Capt. Fischler, who had achieved flag rank. Over the ensuing days, Alaska conducted further training before getting underway as a unit of Task Group (TG) 12.2, weighing anchor for the western Pacific on [b]29 January[/b]. She reached Ulithi, the fleet anchorage in the Caroline Islands, on 6 February, and there joined TG 58.5, a task group in the famed Task Force (TF) 58, the fast carrier task force.[/i]

I have a two additional images taken at sea after leaving HPNY, dated 13 and 22 January 1945 (accuracy of dates in 80-G are always suspect), showing her painted in Ms 22. The HPNY photos and the one dated 13 January 1945, doesn't show the TDY-1 antenna or the SPR antennas yet installed. The photo dated 22 January 1945, isn't high enough res to see these antennas. PHNY starting as early as September 1944, was installing RCM gear on destroyers and I assume also on heavier units. At first this was primarily limited to "Radar Warning" systems, SPR-1, DBM, and early DBM "like" antennas of the "interim RCM suite". The "ultimate RCM suite" including TDY-1 jammer wasn't available until early 1945. Hence, I feel confident that the RCM gear on USS ALASKA was installed at PHNY in mid-January 1945.
[/quote]

Would there be records of these changes from PHNY available either at NARA II (or at the Seattle branch, where I believe Tracy White had unearthed some radar installation drawings?)

Last year, I corresponded with archivists at NARA II to locate the microfilm drawings for ALASKA held at College Park and paid to have the index reel scanned and digitized. After almost 9mo of waiting I received the copies in digital format, but sadly the text of the index reel was so blurry as to be nearly unreadable. My usual tricks in Photoshop weren't able to clean it up. I am not particularly experienced with microfilm and wonder if it was either poorly scanned, or out of focus when the original was shot onto microfilm. At some point I would like to go and view the microfilm in person which would be much more cost effective!

The archivists were able to locate the "virtual" reel for ALASKA (Reel #32069), which consists of 26 physical reels (32069-1 through 32069-25). The total cost to digitize all 25 reels was quoted at $3250.00!

Attaching an example frame of the blurry index reel for reference. As you can see it's "relatively" readable but definitely difficult. Cheers

Excellent photos. A person who is a historian should rely on primary sources. My 1:192 Alaska depicts her as she was in the Pacific under Capitan Noble. I had just noticed that she had two A-56/SPR-1 antenna, so I have just printed another. This particular mode was begun circa 1988and had good spate of construction a few years ago. More and more information comes my way and I have not been afraid to modify the ship as needed, especially as I have become conversant with 3 D printing. She is on her 2nd set of light AA, third set of 5" twin mounts. One of the joys of complete scratch building is having little fear of remove and replace with better items. Today I replaced all four props on my 1:192 Missouri, the brass ones with my own printed ones. I started that model in 1964.

Thank you for the forum's researchers, they provide much needed data for those of us who more enjoy building things.

Kinderst regards! Tom

Yes photos that were "released" to the news media were often censored for anything considered sensitive. However, many photos found at NARA from official USN files, are not censored.

Ian is likely right about when and where the TDY-1 and other RCM gear was installed. I have two photos of USS ALASKA at Hunter's Point Navy Yard "dated" the first week in January 1945. See attached. USS ALASKA went in for a brief availability. She has been repainted into Ms 22. A side note; Note in the second photo the cross marks at the top of the photo, this was done by the censor indicating that the antennas should be deleted in the "public released" images.

DANFS Entry;

[i]Alaska departed Philadelphia on 12 November 1944 for the Caribbean, in company with Thomas E. Fraser (DM-24), and, after two weeks of standardization trials out of Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, sailed for the Pacific on 2 December. She completed her transit of the Panama Canal on 4 December, and reached San Diego on the 12th. Thereafter, the new large cruiser trained in shore bombardment and anti-aircraft firing off San Diego [b]before an availability at Hunter's Point, near San Francisco.[/b]

On [b]8 January 1945[/b], Alaska sailed for Hawaii, and reached Pearl Harbor on the 13th, where, on the 27th, Capt. Kenneth M.Noble relieved Capt. Fischler, who had achieved flag rank. Over the ensuing days, Alaska conducted further training before getting underway as a unit of Task Group (TG) 12.2, weighing anchor for the western Pacific on [b]29 January[/b]. She reached Ulithi, the fleet anchorage in the Caroline Islands, on 6 February, and there joined TG 58.5, a task group in the famed Task Force (TF) 58, the fast carrier task force.[/i]

I have a two additional images taken at sea after leaving HPNY, dated 13 and 22 January 1945 (accuracy of dates in 80-G are always suspect), showing her painted in Ms 22. The HPNY photos and the one dated 13 January 1945, doesn't show the TDY-1 antenna or the SPR antennas yet installed. The photo dated 22 January 1945, isn't high enough res to see these antennas. PHNY starting as early as September 1944, was installing RCM gear on destroyers and I assume also on heavier units. At first this was primarily limited to "Radar Warning" systems, SPR-1, DBM, and early DBM "like" antennas of the "interim RCM suite". The "ultimate RCM suite" including TDY-1 jammer wasn't available until early 1945. Hence, I feel confident that the RCM gear on USS ALASKA was installed at PHNY in mid-January 1945.

[url=https://photobucket.com/u/TincanREDavis/a/0ce50924-0031-45f3-8823-66214c56ffd8/p/da8dd80d-beb1-4bbd-969e-a1124ac67ca0][img]https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/p303/TincanREDavis/zCB1x17-Jan45.lr.jpeg?width=1920&height=1080&fit=bounds[/img][/url]
[url=https://photobucket.com/u/TincanREDavis/a/0ce50924-0031-45f3-8823-66214c56ffd8/p/3c40dc6f-fd9e-413e-b8b4-56ffaf1804ad][img]https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/p303/TincanREDavis/zCB1x16-Jan45.lr.jpeg?width=1920&height=1080&fit=bounds[/img][/url]

I don't have specific evidence of this, but wartime photos often had various electronic warfare equipment airbrushed out for security reasons so absence of an item in a particular photo isn't conclusive. Inclusion would be more substantive. As always, as many sources as we can find, but a ships configuration is always a moving target. It's a beautiful ship from it's clipper bow to the elegant profile.

Keep up sharing gems of your research.

Tom

Ian - that same photo is in Wiper's Alaska-class book. That's a much bigger photo - you can see the antenna there, but not in the photo in the book.

Appreciate the info - I am building her in late 1944, in camouflage, so I'll leave off the TDY antenna.

Thanks!

The object in question is the TDY-1 jammer antenna -- if you're modeling the ship at any point in 1944 (in camouflage) this antenna is not present. Photos of the ship in 1945 (in Measure 22 camouflage) show the new antenna added but I have not been able to find exact textual references defining when it was added. ALASKA's DANFS entry shows the ship arriving at Pearl Harbor 13 Jan 1945 and departing for the western Pacific on 29 Jan 1945 so I suspect this antenna was added at that time. Other changes to the ship's RCM fit that appear in the 1945 photos include AN/SPR-1 receiving antennas on the forward yardarms, DBM-1 radar direction finders on a yard below the foretop, TDYa S-band jammer radomes (transmitters at the deck edge near the catapults above the hangar and receiver bracketed to the rear of the foremast), and X-2A "Nancy" IR beacons below the upper fighting lights on the forward air defense station (10 level).

This photo shows most of the equipment very clearly: http://www.navsource.org/archives/04/1201/04020130a.jpg

Thanks. I’m going to leave it off, but keep the parts in case photographic evidence shows up.

HobbyBoss would have you add the small antenna and platform seen in the instructions below to the face of the top level of the forward superstructure. Yet, I can’t seem to find that in pictures of Alaska during her 2nd shakedown cruise. I’m thinking I should leave it off. Anyone know for sure when it was added?
[attachment=0]C5F1A394-5809-47FF-B709-E10A24972E1D.jpeg[/attachment]

[quote="DavidP"]https://www.model-monkey.com/product-page/1-350-anchors-for-pre-war-us-navy-battleships-1
https://www.model-monkey.com/product-page/1-200-anchors-for-us-navy-fast-battleships[/quote]

Thanks David. I knew he made anchors, but didn't read the "fine print"!

Anyone make aftermarket 3D printed anchors appropriate for this class? Manage to lose one to the "tile monster" (the 1st cousin to the better known "carpet monster").

Wow! I loves this site, I learn something new every day.

Wow! Thanks everyone for the info and the pictures.

This may help. USS [i]Alaska[/i] CB-1:
[attachment=2]CB-1 Alaska 1944-06-05 showing high pressure gas cylinders.jpg[/attachment]
[attachment=1]CB-1 Alaska 1944-06-05 showing high pressure gas cylinders closeup.jpg[/attachment]
[attachment=0]CB-1 Alaska 1944-06-05 showing high pressure gas cylinders very closeup.jpg[/attachment]
Cylinders on USS [i]Missouri[/i] BB-63 have been identified as acetylene and oxygen used for welding.

On [i]Alaska[/i], the cylinders appear to be tall, slender steel "T" cylinders, which are 55 inches (140 cm) tall by 9.25 inches (23.5 cm) in diameter. [i]Missouri[/i]'s oxygen cylinders were also probably "T" cylinders. But her acetylene cylinders were squat and fat, probably "WK" cylinders or similar, which are 39 inches (99 cm) tall by 12.4 inches (31.5 cm) in diameter.

Here are the colors which indicate the type of gas contained by the cylinder. When looking at photos of the cylinders in their racks, try not to confuse the retaining straps holding the tanks in the racks for colored stripes painted on the cylinders.
[attachment=5]GasCylinderPainting0001-1.jpg[/attachment]
Below are cylinders on USS [i]Missouri[/i] BB-63 and USS [i]Hazelwood[/i] DD-531. Note the two types visible on [i]Missouri[/i]:
[attachment=4]acetylene and oxygen cylinders BB-63 1945 016341c.crop.comment.jpg[/attachment]
[attachment=3]acetylene and oxygen cylinders DD531x37nh-Jun59.comment.jpg[/attachment]

I believe green indicates argon gas, used in welding. Not positive, though.