The Ship Model Forum

[quote="DougC"]What he meant is with a red filter, red objects will print very light in B&W. With a green filter, red objects will print very dark.

The is also the question whether panchromatic or orthochromatic film was used. Red objects record differently with either film.[/quote]

Now I understand. So thats very difficult to tell unless one knows what type of film was typically used for the period in said country (lets say Italy, in 1940s). I wouldnt have the slightest idea.

What he meant is with a red filter, red objects will print very light in B&W. With a green filter, red objects will print very dark.

The is also the question whether panchromatic or orthochromatic film was used. Red objects record differently with either film.

[quote="Fliger747"]A note on interpreting B&W photos, using filters, especially for darkening blue skies is quite common. Red and orange filters make for the most dramatic skies and are what I used frequently. Next most popular is yellow and then maybe green. The effect this will have on hull red is rather dramatic![/quote]

I am not sure what youre trying to say. Reds were always much darker in black and white photos, I presume?

A note on interpreting B&W photos, using filters, especially for darkening blue skies is quite common. Red and orange filters make for the most dramatic skies and are what I used frequently. Next most popular is yellow and then maybe green. The effect this will have on hull red is rather dramatic!

[quote="Mr. Church"]

Page 114.

At the start of the "Paint Schemes and Camouflage" section.[/quote]

Found it. Is that considered a late-ish source in terms of what we have out there? In other words can we trust it most from whats available? Hard question, I know, looking for best guess.

[quote="pascalemod"][quote="Mr. Church"]With all the recent revelations about the underwater hull colours of British Battleships it would be interesting to know if anything further has emerged in relation to the same thing for the Littorio Class?

The (excellent) Bagnasco and deToro book ([url]https://www.amazon.co.uk/Littorio-Class-Largest-Battleships-1937-1948/dp/1591144450[/url]) describes their underwater hull's final outer coat of anti-fouling paint as being "normally dark green in colour."[/quote]

Where do you find this quote in the book?

.[/quote]

Page 114.

At the start of the "Paint Schemes and Camouflage" section.

[quote="Mr. Church"]With all the recent revelations about the underwater hull colours of British Battleships it would be interesting to know if anything further has emerged in relation to the same thing for the Littorio Class?

The (excellent) Bagnasco and deToro book ([url]https://www.amazon.co.uk/Littorio-Class-Largest-Battleships-1937-1948/dp/1591144450[/url]) describes their underwater hull's final outer coat of anti-fouling paint as being "normally dark green in colour."[/quote]

Where do you find this quote in the book?

I am building a Littorio at the moment, and have her green below water but mainly on account of it weathering to green from red (apparently it was red as launched but then turned green due to lots of copper composition). I dont know..
[attachment=1]IMG_0032.jpg[/attachment]

Any more info is welcome, wish we have a "Richard Dennis" for Regia Marina who could go into archives in La Spezia or smth and find out about how Italian ships looked below water.

For one, I found ZERO color photos of Italian ships with green antifouling paint. Zero. I did found some photos of ships (and videos) in Malta after Italy exited the war - and lots of ships have red tinge around the waterline, but that could be from rust, not antifouling paint peaking through. ONE ship - Scipio Africano I think - shows what looks like green antifouling paint however as she is moored along others and looks different. Thats been my ONLLY clue to them being green below water.

Also, Littorio after being half sunk and lifted, shows it stern in black and white, being very light grey, and in some photos when at sea showing light grey below water. And AFAIK the photos at the time showed RED as Black (almost black) and green would look greyish. So there is that.

Finally, I read translated accounts from Soviets inspecting Cesare in dry dock after handover - the commented on "fantastic quality of antifouling paint below water, except on the waterline where it was covered with growth". Sadly, they make zero mention of the color.

On Boot topping:
Oh, and there is a separate note - Duilio in the dry dock - the boot topping thickness is pretty surprising, we are talking like 3 meters or something, way wider than usually depicted and apparently a war time common thing. Take a note on that if you are building Duilio or Doria. In 1/700 scale it would be 4.5mm (give or take) and 9mm in 1/350. An Italian researcher also told this to me once, and I didnt believe it. Remined me a lot of QE and Hood which also spotted very thick boot toppings. Also notice how much the boot topping worn off around the waterline, and likely this is the "red" orange paint you see in Malta on many ships, with perhaps a much thicker bit below (possibly). All of this should be helpful for us model makers.

[attachment=0]IMG_2184.jpg[/attachment]

With all the recent revelations about the underwater hull colours of British Battleships it would be interesting to know if anything further has emerged in relation to the same thing for the Littorio Class?

The (excellent) Bagnasco and deToro book ([url]https://www.amazon.co.uk/Littorio-Class-Largest-Battleships-1937-1948/dp/1591144450[/url]) describes their underwater hull's final outer coat of anti-fouling paint as being "normally dark green in colour."

Two enjoyable videos I came across online about the Littorio Class. From Italian creator Giulio Poggiaroni.
[url]https://comandosupremo.com/author/giulo-poggiaroni/[/url]

Littorio class Battleships PART 1: technical overview
[url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=00yKssFAr20[/url]

Littorio class battleships PART 2: operational life
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YMgIX6Md8P8&t=272s

Including some images I had not seen before of them.

[quote="Jon C Ryckert"]Would anyone happen to have the deck layout for the Roma showing what size of vents went where? Thanks[/quote]
I am guessing that you found the magnificent Micro Master mushroom vents.
Sadly, Micro Master shut down on May 17 until September 2024. I just discovered them on May 18 and have a looonggg list of Regia Navy and Royal Navy items now waiting.
Their Royal Navy ships boats are simply astonishing!

Would anyone happen to have the deck layout for the Roma showing what size of vents went where? Thanks

Dear all,

I am planning to build the 1:350 Trumpeter Vittorio Veneto as my next project.
Is it me, or am I correct that next to a wooden deck for this specific model, no Photo Etch is available for this kit.
Meaning that it is required to use PE from Roma or general railing/guns of the Littorio class.

Thank you for informing me.


Chris

Hello everyone

Does anyone knows how looked like a bottom part of hull on these battleships. I mean, Shell platting.
thanks
I juss started to build Roma battleship from trumpeter 1/350 and I would like to make a small upgrate this part of hull.
chris

[quote="Mr. Church"]Eduard did produce a set of detail parts for the AA guns:
[url]https://www.eduard.com/eduard/photo-etched-parts/photo-etched-set/ships/1-350/rn-roma-pt-2-aa-guns-1-350.html[/url]

Seems to be discontinued now. Though you might find one still in stock somewhere if you're lucky?[/quote]

I have it.
In fact, I have set 1 and 2 for long, and planned to use dedicated Trumpeter railings set.
As I recently prepared my project and gathered my already owned stuff for it, I understood that Trumpy set was no more in my quality standards.
I searched for railings and found that set 3 was no more available worldwide !
I managed to find one of the lasts on Earth, using a taobao agent...

but 3d printed items concerning light AA, are far more better than some folded photoetch !

however, more on this current project in "works in progress"

Eduard did produce a set of detail parts for the AA guns:
[url]https://www.eduard.com/eduard/photo-etched-parts/photo-etched-set/ships/1-350/rn-roma-pt-2-aa-guns-1-350.html[/url]

Seems to be discontinued now. Though you might find one still in stock somewhere if you're lucky?

too sad they dont do breda twin 20/65 mounts nor twin 37

For anyone interested, Micro Master of New Zealand now do a whole host of 3D printed accessories in 1/350 scale that will suit the Littorio class, including replacement turrets, replacement liferafts and deck mushroom vents:

[url]https://micromaster.co.nz/collections/italian-navy/1-350-scale[/url]

I have no connection with them, bar having bought stuff from them before.

hello !

as I am gathering some data to prepare my next project, a question is rising :

did Roma removed its main deck berths during 1943 in a refit ?
or did they remain in place (empty) ?

its difficult to find clear 1943 pictures !

thank you.

I wonder, if Flyhawk would adapt their 1/350 Roma update set for the new Vittorio. That has not happened for Littorio, but who knows?

I found these by chance on Ebay when looking for something else. It would be nice if they brought them out in 1/350 scale as well as 1/700:

[attachment=0]Snowman 1.700 Italian Ventilator.jpg[/attachment]

There is a set A and a Set B it seems.