The Ship Model Forum

As this thread has been asleep for some time (and I was posting the below elsewhere) I thought I'd resurrect it with the below mock-up showing the direction Exeter's main guns were engaging (as per gun angles on wreck) when she was crippled (from a shell that almost certainly came from the same direction, i.e. south) losing all power with all turrets locked in train; aft turret at almost max elevation, both forward turrets down level. (And although first thought that the angle of the fwd guns implied she was engaging someone close in, i.e. a Jap DD, have been told that that is where they also would have been if reloading). Thought it might help any modeller who wants to portray her final moments. :smallsmile:

[quote="Tracy White"][quote="Maarten Schönfeld"]Better idea is to replace it with Evergreen grooved plastic plate of the correct gauge, i.e. Evergreen 2030.[/quote]

Out of curiosity - initially [url=http://www.shipmodels.info/mws_forum/viewtopic.php?f=48&t=10618&start=280#p758908]you recommended[/url] Evergreen 2025, whereas today it was 2030. Has there been a change in what's best or was a simple wire cross?[/quote]
Oops!

Tracy, you are correct, it was Evergreen 2025. This was chosen as this matched the kit decks the closest, the kit decks being at 17 planks per cm (I just checked it again to be sure)
I'll correct it in my earlier post today. Glad some people here really pay close attention to details. Thank you, Tracy!

I have my RN deck plank widths between V-grooved (2025, 0.64mm, 9" FS) and Evergreen Car Siding (2020 0.5mm spacing, 7" FS).

[quote="Maarten Schönfeld"]Better idea is to replace it with Evergreen grooved plastic plate of the correct gauge, i.e. Evergreen 2030.[/quote]

Out of curiosity - initially [url=http://www.shipmodels.info/mws_forum/viewtopic.php?f=48&t=10618&start=280#p758908]you recommended[/url] Evergreen 2025, whereas today it was 2030. Has there been a change in what's best or was a simple wire cross?

[quote="Kazec"]I've asked these question in another forum but without good answer. As such, I ask again here. About HMS York:

1) Whether the B turret deck was wooden deck or steel deck? The trumpeter kit is steel deck but there are reference plans showing it as wooden deck.

2) Whether the wooden deck was painted in dark colour or unpainted at lost. There are photos showing the main deck in relatively light colour which was taken during the inspection of its wreck by the Italian in 1942 but I doubt whether it would be due to fading of the dark paint.

Thank you very much.[/quote]
Hi Kazec,

I don't have the York kit myself, only the Exeter kit. Apparently these kits are similar in this respect.

Trumpeter made an error making this a steel deck, you should replace it by a wooden deck. Some do this by scraping the plank lines, but in my view it's next to impossible to get that even and neat. Better idea is to replace it with Evergreen grooved plastic plate of the correct gauge, i.e. Evergreen 2025. Whether the wooden deck was painted at the time of her loss I seriously doubt, as this was a practice that caught up only later in the war. But I can be mistaken.

Below a few pictures how I did this. You can see some of my other small alterations to the kit as well.[attachment=1]IMAG2390red.jpg[/attachment][attachment=0]IMAG2405red.jpg[/attachment] On this and following pages more details can be found how to improve on the Trumpeter kit:
[url]http://www.shipmodels.info/mws_forum/viewtopic.php?f=48&t=10618&start=280[/url]
(post corrected after inquiry below)

I've asked these question in another forum but without good answer. As such, I ask again here. About HMS York:

1) Whether the B turret deck was wooden deck or steel deck? The trumpeter kit is steel deck but there are reference plans showing it as wooden deck.

2) Whether the wooden deck was painted in dark colour or unpainted at lost. There are photos showing the main deck in relatively light colour which was taken during the inspection of its wreck by the Italian in 1942 but I doubt whether it would be due to fading of the dark paint.

Thank you very much.

Thanks Maarten. I've seen [url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Washington_(SSN-787)#Crest]descriptions of US ship crests[/url] and figured there was something similar for other countries. I guess the Royal Navy needs a royal version of the Navy Heritage & History Command.

[quote="Tracy White"]Certainly more than I had been able to find in my searches, thanks! I was mainly curious in the change in the orbs between the cruiser D68's crest and D89's Kevin posted above. Being American, my knowledge of symbology is more... corporate, so the change from a + in the orb to a ┬ (not sure if that will come through but it's similar to [url=https://www.ascii-code.com/194]ASCII 194[/url] was curious to me and I didn't know if there was a reason behind it.[/quote]
Hi Tracy,
You're now really into the details! The orb (in German: Reichsapfel, in Latin: globus cruciger) in the Exeter crest is referring to the one of the '[b]Holy Roman Empire[/b]' (962-1806), which was mostly [b]German[/b] in the first place! Richard Earl of Cornwall of the House Plantagenet (1209-1272) was one of these Roman-Kings (crowned in Aachen in 1257): this appointment wasn't hereditary.

This is an image of the orb that was used in the empire. As this was more than 200 years ago no photo's seem to exist of it, and I have no clue whether this gem survived the abyss of time. The 'fleurons' on the arms of the cross seem a bit typical for this orb: the British orb doesn't have these. As for the empire itself: the name 'Roman' might be bewildering to an American, it refers to being "Roman Catholic" (but in reality the empire wasn't very religious or holy at all...)
Addition: the 'regalia' did survive the times and are currently kept in the Hofburg in Vienna: [url]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imperial_Treasury,_Vienna[/url]

[attachment=0]Reichsapfel.jpg[/attachment]
For a explanation on various orbs of different countries look here: [url]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Globus_cruciger[/url]

Certainly more than I had been able to find in my searches, thanks! I was mainly curious in the change in the orbs between the cruiser D68's crest and D89's Kevin posted above. Being American, my knowledge of symbology is more... corporate, so the change from a + in the orb to a ┬ (not sure if that will come through but it's similar to [url=https://www.ascii-code.com/194]ASCII 194[/url] was curious to me and I didn't know if there was a reason behind it.

[quote="Tracy White"]Thanks, Kevin - do you know of any resource that explains or details the symbology of the crest(s)?[/quote]
[url]https://www.heraldry-wiki.com/heraldrywiki/index.php?title=HMS_Exeter,_Royal_Navy[/url]
According to this page the ship's crest was designed in 1928 adapted from the Exeter city coat of arms (Logical, eh?). The crowned red lion with the golden orb are from the helmet sign of the CoA, the waves (very fitting for a ship!) were already in the shield bearers' pegases' wings.[attachment=0]Exeter.jpg[/attachment]
Now you ask about the [u]symbology [/u]of all the elements: well the lion is an animal of power, red is a fiery colour of passion, the crown and the orb are symbols of worldly power, the waves are a symbol of the sea connecting the peoples of the world, something like this. Any further or deeper explanation might be found in the official description of the coat of arms of Exeter, there it says:

"The crest itself is a red crowned lion holding a golden orb. This is for Richard Earl of Cornwall, Holy Roman Emperor. The same lion appears in the arms of Devon County Council and some of the towns and districts of Devon. The supporters are winged horses or pegases. The wings are charged with blue waves and thus is represented the river Exe which once made the city a major port."

Satisfied?

[quote="Tracy White"]Thanks, Kevin - do you know of any resource that explains or details the symbology of the crest(s)?[/quote]
No Tracy, unfortunately I do not.

Thanks, Kevin - do you know of any resource that explains or details the symbology of the crest(s)?

And a plaque from my collection, although I may(?) have posted this one before.

Of some interest to some may be the below image which appears to be a per-production drawing of the cruiser Exeter's (68) crest (as opposed to D89's which as we know was circular). And a painting I have by artist Ross Watton (https://www.rosswatton.com/index.html)

Always on my search for details of the HMS Exeter at the time of the Battle of the River Plate, I have been looking for the rigging and battle ensigns at the time of the battle, and was pleasantly surprised finding that the captain ordered to hoist five battle ensigns (one report says 7.32m x 3.66m (24´x 12´), another report says 3.73m x 1.85m (12´x 6´)) battle ensigns from the main topmast, port and starboard yardarms, top mizzen and lower mizzen as the Exeter turned to engage the Admiral Graf Spee. So I guess that this painting is quite historical accurate (although it depicts only 4 battle ensigns). Only thing I would doubt about are the lines running from the masts to the jackstaff and the stern staff, would have been removed before entering combat.

[img]https://i.imgur.com/VDpdnCvl.jpg[/img]

The other detail that I found interesting was that the signal flags "E322" (other report says "N322") were raised providing the bearing to the Graf Spee. That would be a nice detail I had not counted on adding to my HMS Exeter, but I will now.

Marco

The 3D 'fly-around' of the wreck of HMS Exeter has recently been uploaded to YouTube by creator Stefan Draminski, just in time for the 81st anniversary of her sinking, along with HMS Encounter and USS Pope, on March 1st, 1942.

For those so interested you can view it here; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hH7IHTiv-T0

Not that I need any reminder of why I love British cruisers, but man, that is a fantastic photograph! A diorama of that would be something to see.

Going through my Exeter photo files and this one caught my eye so thought I'd post. And no, they are not baby seals hung out to dry on the sides of the ship, just men painting (I assume?). :big_grin: Taken I believe, if her 'ports schedule' for the time is correct, late 1938 (Nov / Dec) during her 38-39 South American cruise.

And a belated thanks for that last input 81542.

Kevin,

A revision of my last post: the side plating has been extended aft to the fore funnel and the aircraft runways have been added. According to Tonks' Profile No 13 on the ship, this was carried out in late '31 during a refit at Devonport. She then went to the West Indies in January 1932 with the remainder of the Second Cruiser Squadron of the Home Fleet. If you believe my observation on the condition of the paintwork of the hull, it might be said that the image shows the ship in late '31. However, it could be even later. I can't give anymore information than that.

81542

Sorry Kevin, I'm not much help on this one. However, judging from the state of the paintwork I'd hazard a guess that she was just out of the builder's on acceptance trials or fresh out of a dockyard refit.

81542