The Ship Model Forum

It is not for sure that the dates of the photos are correct. It is only sure that they were made after the refit in which she got the forward 4 cm Bofors, therefore for sure in the Pacific.

It is also likely that there was a supply for British ships, because she also got other "special" British "equipment", e.g. rum for the crew. In the book a unit of British landing ships is mentioned, which arrived before the Leyte invasion - but the USN did not allow them to take part in the landing - in contrast to [i]Ariadne[/i].

Maxim,

I have little doubt that HMS ARIADNE worn a RN camo pattern. With the USN Mk 2 twin 40-mm mount installed, that does date the photos as "post" her PHNY refit period in March 1944. The question is did they need to substitute any USN paints? I can believe that when HMS ARIADNE went to the Pacific that she very well could have brought extra spare parts and even paint with her. Besides by 1944 the USN went through its period of the use of "dazzle" camo ... telling Kamikaze pilots ... "Here I am", so a dazzle painted ship wouldn't stand out.

What is interesting is that according to other printed sources, by "the end of the war" her Hazemayer Bofors were replaced with two more USN pattern Mk 2 mounts. Unless those reports are in error, that begs that question of when they were replaced. The assumption had been that all of the mounts were replaced at PHNY.

In an old issue of "WARSHIP" issue #17 there is a pictorial article about "BREAKING-UP HM SHIPS" by I L Buxton. On pages 62-63 there is an excellent overhead view of HMS ARIADNE taken in February 1965 about to be scrapped. They say that the twin 40-mm mounts are USN Mk 2. I can see that the forward one is, but the aft two mounts in this photo are less clear. Since ARIADNE more or less remained "mothballed" from 1946 onwards, a couple of attempts to recommission her for service during the Korean War and Suez didn't go through, this is pretty much her last WWII appearance.

I have continued to read [i]Very Special Ships: Abdiel-Class Fast Minelayers of World War Two[/i] and I have found no indication that HMS [i]Ariadne[/i] was painted with USN colours. But I found several indications that she kept her British colours.

There are several photos included in the book (from the Australian archive) that shows her with the USN type Bofors in front of bridge (especially the director is clearly visible) and Hazemayer Bofors midships (at least showing the radars attached to the mounting) - and still with the British camouflage pattern. The are dated August 1944.

Rick, it appears that I'm following in your wake :smallsmile:
Naval-History (great site) was my starting point; since then I've been looking for any & every photo and bit of data on Ariadne that's out on the web.
I've only barely started the Matchbox kit but really want to get this rather unique ship built and on my shelf. I like the RN schemes well enough; but if there's any chance she wore USN colors in the Pacific (even mundane Measure 21) that would be just too cool on an RN ship.

from the polish revue profile morskie a beautiful camouflage possibility
ciao peppe

For me the timeline of HMS ARIADNE is what makes me ask what and HOW MANY camo schemes did she have while in the Pacific;

(From Naval-History.net)

[i]1 9 4 4

January Home Fleet deployment in continuation.
Nominated for loan service with US Navy in Pacific.
Embarked mines at Milford Haven.

February Worked-up for foreign service.
Passage to Pearl Harbour via Panama. See Naval Staff History (MINING).

March Commenced loan service with US Navy.

April Prepared for operational duties with 7th US Fleet

May Deployed with US 7th Fleet.
Nominated for minelay off Wewak, New Guinea in support of Operation RECKLESS
(See WAR WITH JAPAN (HMSO).)

June Passage to Manus for deployment with US Task Force 75.
19th Carried out lay of 146 mines off Wewak.
20th Returned to Manus on completion.

July US Navy loan service in SW Pacific in continuation
to (See HISTORY OF US NAVAL OPERATIONS by Samuel E Morison.)
August Nominated for use as Assault Troop Carrier during landings in Philippines after
completion of minelay in Wewak harbour.
Passage to Wewak from Manus.

September
1st Carried out minelay and returned to Manus on completion.
Converted for new role.

October Deployed with Amphibious Force VH and took part in preparatory exercises.
20th Took part in landing operations at Leyte.
to (Note: HM Australian Cruisers AUSTRALIA and SHROPSHIRE, HM Australian
22nd Destroyers ARUNTA and WARRAMUNGA, HM Australian Frigate GASCOYNE
and HM Australian Landing Ships (Infantry) WESTRALIA, MANOORA and
KANIMBLA also took part. See WAR WITH JAPAN (HM90).)
23rd Present during action by US Navy against Japanese warships in Gulf of Leyte.
to See above reference.
26th

November Loan service with US Navy in continuation based at Manus.
15th Embarked US troops at Morotai for passage to Pegun Island in Mapia Group with US
destroyers USS SHAW, USS CALWELL and USS WILMARTH to establish a weather
and LORAN (Navigational Radio) stations. See above reference.

December Loan service with US Navy in continuation.

1 9 4 5

January Recalled to UK for RN minelaying duties.[/i]

From her arrival until about August-September 1944 when ARIADNE was modified for Troop Transport OPS, she was effectively being maintained by the USN. I have no doubt that she wore "Official" RN colors prior to March 1944 and after her return to the UK. But, I wonder what scheme/colors she wore in March-August 1944 period? She could well have retained the basic pattern, but maybe with substitute USN paint????

I have had two experiences with AWM photos where they had miss-identified USN destroyers names, even though the hull numbers were clearly seen as being another ship. I have no idea of what data they have for dating the images they post, so I don't know when the photos were actually taken. It made me a little suspicious about the AWM photos and whoever wrote up the captions when they say she has HAZEMEYER Mountings for her twin 40-mm guns. But, those troubled mounts were replaced with USN Mk II 40-mm mounts at Pearl Harbor. The resolution of these images leave little ability of analyzing her configuration to date the them.

I went through this discussion about HMS ARIADNE on-line quite sometime ago (I looked it up my paper copies, holy cow they date to ... 2003!!!!) and no one came up with solid answers about her camo during this period of her service. These same AWM images were available then, but only as poor res thumbnails. I keep an eye out for photos of ARIADNE in USN 80-G photos, with no luck so far. I'm keeping my mind open to any possibility. I have a half complete model of her I would like to paint. :smallsmile:

[quote="Rick E Davis"]- I have learned, sometimes the hard way, that the dates on photos, even from official places, can be wrong.[/quote]
Yep; makes two of us (and others on this board).

peppe, thanks for those new drawings from Eric Leon; I had not seen them before.

2 color profiles of ariadne camouflage at
http://www.world-war.co.uk/minelayer.php3
ciao peppe

In the above mentioned book there is a drawing showing [i]Ariadne[/i] with the late war pattern: G45 with B20 stripe labelled with March 1945. The Bofors on B position is shown - also on one drawing of her labelled with August 1944 still wearing the pattern with B55, B15, and B30.

But still with British colours... Since November 1944 the British Pacific Fleet was in existence with its base in Sydney - and probably with all the supply needed.

If the AWM photos are accurately dated as August 1944, then the camo question is answered.

However, there are a few things that run through my mind;

- Where did the paint come from to keep ARIADNE in the original camo? I doubt that Pearl Harbor or the USN "supply train" kept it. The RAN maybe had supplies.

- The RAN adopted USN or at least near-USN camo schemes when they operated with the USN so that they didn't standout.

- ARIADNE had USN Mk II 40-mm mounts installed at Pearl Harbor in place of the original mounts.

- I have learned, sometimes the hard way, that the dates on photos, even from official places, can be wrong.

Thanks gents; very helpful.
Maxim, I've not seen those photos from Oz before; they're great. The dates given for them seem pretty conclusive.
But, Rick, I too wonder about the camo. Why would a single ship from another navy be left to stand out from those it served with? Especially after the precedent set by Victorious/"Robin"?

The painting on page 168? But this is still a typical British pattern and probably the painter got the pattern wrong. I guess this is an indicator that she still had her original pattern in 1945.

In the new book about the Abdiel class, there is a reproduction of a painting of the starboard side of Ariadne transiting the Panama Canal on the way home in early 1945 and the camouflage scheme is different.

However, up until at least August 1944 she retained the Admiralty three tone scheme.

There are some photos in Australian archives, which were made in the Pacific and still show this camouflage pattern:

[url]https://www.awm.gov.au/collection/302305/[/url]
[url]https://www.awm.gov.au/collection/134469/[/url]
[url]https://www.awm.gov.au/collection/302306/[/url]

I hope the links are working. Otherwise search using "HMS Ariadne" here:
[url]https://www.awm.gov.au/search/all/?searchtype=simple&n=10[/url]

I really wonder about what camo scheme HMS ARIADNE had in the Pacific while serving with the USN. There have been debates and several undated images, many showing ARIADNE before she went to the Pacific. ARIADNE had at least one refit at Pearl Harbor when USN twin 40-mm mounts were installed. Unknown if she was repainted at that time or in Australia. Her PHNY Weekly Overhaul Reports don't mention painting, but that was pretty common in these reports ... it was considered routine and a maintenance item.

This was the camouflage pattern of [i]Ariadne[/i] in the Pacific:
[url]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMS_Ariadne_%28M65%29#/media/File:HMS_Ariadne_minelayer.jpg[/url]

Typical British pattern.

During most of 1944 Ariadne served with the USN in the Pacific; notably at Wewak and Leyte.
Does anyone have a photo of Ariadne while with the USN?
It's tempting to think that Ariadne wore US colors (like Victorious two years before) while with the US 7th fleet; wouldn't that make for a distinctive model?
TIA

Cheers Dick; much appreciated :smallsmile:

The scheme shown in the Ariadne photo is said to have been B15, B30 and B55 which, given the relative tones seen, is perfectly plausible.

That is one possibility.
I'm also considering doing Abdiel, with the more angular camo pattern as shown in the WEM 1/350th instructions alluded to just above.