The Ship Model Forum

[quote="Brett Morrow"]Yes, you can make an enquiry to get a digital copy emailed, but it will cost you. Probably have to pay for a copy of the whole book, after which the full digital copy is uploaded onto the site and made available to anyone, that`s the way it works. If you have those projections, you no doubt have this profile which shows what I previously posted and also shows the fan apparatus on the fan deck,[u] they are precisely in the position of the 16 strips[/u]. Sometimes the obvious can be missed, the overhead shows `Funnel uptake "over"[/quote]
Thanks again Brett! So are you saying above that those 16 'strips' [i]are [/i]the boilers (meaning [i]eight [/i]boilers per BR then), or as someone else said above, are they 'the base [i]for [/i]boilers', which could then still be / 'mean' just four boilers per BR, if what we are seeing (the 'strips') represent just the 'stands / base' for the boilers (i.e. two 'stands' per boiler, four boilers per BR)?

Yes, you can make an enquiry to get a digital copy emailed, but it will cost you. Probably have to pay for a copy of the whole book, after which the full digital copy is uploaded onto the site and made available to anyone, that`s the way it works. If you have those projections, you no doubt have this profile which shows what I previously posted and also shows the fan apparatus on the fan deck, they are precisely in the position of the 16 strips. Sometimes the obvious can be missed, the overhead shows `Funnel uptake "over"

[quote="Brett Morrow"]The possibility exists that the actual boilers/boiler deck are not shown on the overhead plan. It is also possible that what Tracy has pointed out may be the fan assemblies in the fan room above. While it is likely the boiler room plan remained as originally designed for a 3 funnel cruiser your first mission would be to ascertain if that was the case. The profile plan `as designed` matches that of a Kent class, HMAS Australia which also shows the boilers in the same positions of the funnel uptakes, so your green dots may actually show the boiler foundations. An overlay of the overhead lower deck plan matches the position of the boilers shown on the profile. [u]You could check Australia`s ships book No 4 at NAA Canberra[/u] which has the boiler reports and may possibly answer your question relating to A and B sets.[/quote]
Thanks for your input Brett, much appreciated! But re your suggestion above, is that doable on-line(?), as given that I live on the other side of the world, literally about as far from Oz as you can get before you hit the North Pole, it will be very difficult for me in person. :big_grin:

Be that as it may, below a collage of the three deck levels above / below where BR is located from the 'as designed' plans. As can see still no indication of exactly where they are. And my understanding is there are no plans of her 'as [i]actually [/i]built' (as opposed to 'as designed'), nor aware of any changes to BR's at any time. Of course, that doesn't mean there weren't any.

The possibility exists that the actual boilers/boiler deck are not shown on the overhead plan. It is also possible that what Tracy has pointed out may be the fan assemblies in the fan room above. While it is likely the boiler room plan remained as originally designed for a 3 funnel cruiser your first mission would be to ascertain if that was the case. The profile plan `as designed` matches that of a Kent class, HMAS Australia which also shows the boilers in the same positions of the funnel uptakes, so your green dots may actually show the boiler foundations. An overlay of the overhead lower deck plan matches the position of the boilers shown on the profile. You could check Australia`s ships book No 4 at NAA Canberra which has the boiler reports and may possibly answer your question relating to A and B sets.

[quote="Tracy White"]I am willing to bet that Exeter's Boilers were similar to [url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yarrow_boiler]this yarrow design[/url] and the eight rectangular objects near the pillars were the foundations for the boilers.[/quote]
Thanks Tracy. Wiki, for all [i]that's[/i] worth (which is often not much, but sometimes..........) says this "[i]She[/i] (Exeter) [i]was powered by four Parsons geared steam turbine sets, each driving one shaft, [u]using steam provided by eight Admiralty 3-drum boilers[/u][/i]". So what you say may be the case. Again, lets see if others chime in.

But yes, thats what the boilers (your link) were similar to (same as?).

This below, again, from a link that [i]was [/i]in the Wiki excerpt above.

[quote="G-Opt"]The cylinder shapes should be the boilers, I would think. Funnel uptakes are something entirely different, if I'm not mistaken.[/quote]
As I wrote the below Tracy's post came in, but I'll post this still anyway.

Thanks G, but........although that's what I initially thought, not only does the scale / size of them 'seem' wrong (to me) in relation to size of each BR, but that would seem to mean there were 8 boilers per [i]each[/i] BR, and it is my understanding (rightly or wrongly?) that there were 8 total in the ship (i.e. 4 per BR). So I am not so entirely sure / convinced just yet. Let's see then what anyone else might say. But again, thanks for your input!

I am willing to bet that Exeter's Boilers were similar to [url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yarrow_boiler]this yarrow design[/url] and the eight rectangular objects near the pillars were the foundations for the boilers.

The cylinder shapes should be the boilers, I would think. Funnel uptakes are something entirely different, if I'm not mistaken.

Gents, can anyone [i]authoritatively [/i]tell me how the boilers were placed / arranged in HMS Exeter, and how they were numbered? It seems that each Boiler Room had four (4) boilers, and they seem to have been / were numbered as A1, A2, A3 and A4 for ‘A’ Boiler Room and B1, B2, B3 and B4 for ‘B’ Boiler Room. Two to Stbd of centerline (in each BR), and two to Port of centerline (in each BR).

Are the boilers [i]where [/i] (not 'are they') the ‘squares' now marked with green dots are ? And if so, which ones were numbered what (if you get my drift)?

Any help [i]much [/i]appreciated!

[b]EDIT.[/b] Clarified my question above, as not implying the 'green dotted squares' [i]are [/i]the boilers, but asking if that is [i]where [/i]they were each located. And if not there, then where? Just to be clear.

As this thread has been asleep for some time (and I was posting the below elsewhere) I thought I'd resurrect it with the below mock-up showing the direction Exeter's main guns were engaging (as per gun angles on wreck) when she was crippled (from a shell that almost certainly came from the same direction, i.e. south) losing all power with all turrets locked in train; aft turret at almost max elevation, both forward turrets down level. (And although first thought that the angle of the fwd guns implied she was engaging someone close in, i.e. a Jap DD, have been told that that is where they also would have been if reloading). Thought it might help any modeller who wants to portray her final moments. :smallsmile:

[quote="Tracy White"][quote="Maarten Schönfeld"]Better idea is to replace it with Evergreen grooved plastic plate of the correct gauge, i.e. Evergreen 2030.[/quote]

Out of curiosity - initially [url=http://www.shipmodels.info/mws_forum/viewtopic.php?f=48&t=10618&start=280#p758908]you recommended[/url] Evergreen 2025, whereas today it was 2030. Has there been a change in what's best or was a simple wire cross?[/quote]
Oops!

Tracy, you are correct, it was Evergreen 2025. This was chosen as this matched the kit decks the closest, the kit decks being at 17 planks per cm (I just checked it again to be sure)
I'll correct it in my earlier post today. Glad some people here really pay close attention to details. Thank you, Tracy!

I have my RN deck plank widths between V-grooved (2025, 0.64mm, 9" FS) and Evergreen Car Siding (2020 0.5mm spacing, 7" FS).

[quote="Maarten Schönfeld"]Better idea is to replace it with Evergreen grooved plastic plate of the correct gauge, i.e. Evergreen 2030.[/quote]

Out of curiosity - initially [url=http://www.shipmodels.info/mws_forum/viewtopic.php?f=48&t=10618&start=280#p758908]you recommended[/url] Evergreen 2025, whereas today it was 2030. Has there been a change in what's best or was a simple wire cross?

[quote="Kazec"]I've asked these question in another forum but without good answer. As such, I ask again here. About HMS York:

1) Whether the B turret deck was wooden deck or steel deck? The trumpeter kit is steel deck but there are reference plans showing it as wooden deck.

2) Whether the wooden deck was painted in dark colour or unpainted at lost. There are photos showing the main deck in relatively light colour which was taken during the inspection of its wreck by the Italian in 1942 but I doubt whether it would be due to fading of the dark paint.

Thank you very much.[/quote]
Hi Kazec,

I don't have the York kit myself, only the Exeter kit. Apparently these kits are similar in this respect.

Trumpeter made an error making this a steel deck, you should replace it by a wooden deck. Some do this by scraping the plank lines, but in my view it's next to impossible to get that even and neat. Better idea is to replace it with Evergreen grooved plastic plate of the correct gauge, i.e. Evergreen 2025. Whether the wooden deck was painted at the time of her loss I seriously doubt, as this was a practice that caught up only later in the war. But I can be mistaken.

Below a few pictures how I did this. You can see some of my other small alterations to the kit as well.[attachment=1]IMAG2390red.jpg[/attachment][attachment=0]IMAG2405red.jpg[/attachment] On this and following pages more details can be found how to improve on the Trumpeter kit:
[url]http://www.shipmodels.info/mws_forum/viewtopic.php?f=48&t=10618&start=280[/url]
(post corrected after inquiry below)

I've asked these question in another forum but without good answer. As such, I ask again here. About HMS York:

1) Whether the B turret deck was wooden deck or steel deck? The trumpeter kit is steel deck but there are reference plans showing it as wooden deck.

2) Whether the wooden deck was painted in dark colour or unpainted at lost. There are photos showing the main deck in relatively light colour which was taken during the inspection of its wreck by the Italian in 1942 but I doubt whether it would be due to fading of the dark paint.

Thank you very much.

Thanks Maarten. I've seen [url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Washington_(SSN-787)#Crest]descriptions of US ship crests[/url] and figured there was something similar for other countries. I guess the Royal Navy needs a royal version of the Navy Heritage & History Command.

[quote="Tracy White"]Certainly more than I had been able to find in my searches, thanks! I was mainly curious in the change in the orbs between the cruiser D68's crest and D89's Kevin posted above. Being American, my knowledge of symbology is more... corporate, so the change from a + in the orb to a ┬ (not sure if that will come through but it's similar to [url=https://www.ascii-code.com/194]ASCII 194[/url] was curious to me and I didn't know if there was a reason behind it.[/quote]
Hi Tracy,
You're now really into the details! The orb (in German: Reichsapfel, in Latin: globus cruciger) in the Exeter crest is referring to the one of the '[b]Holy Roman Empire[/b]' (962-1806), which was mostly [b]German[/b] in the first place! Richard Earl of Cornwall of the House Plantagenet (1209-1272) was one of these Roman-Kings (crowned in Aachen in 1257): this appointment wasn't hereditary.

This is an image of the orb that was used in the empire. As this was more than 200 years ago no photo's seem to exist of it, and I have no clue whether this gem survived the abyss of time. The 'fleurons' on the arms of the cross seem a bit typical for this orb: the British orb doesn't have these. As for the empire itself: the name 'Roman' might be bewildering to an American, it refers to being "Roman Catholic" (but in reality the empire wasn't very religious or holy at all...)
Addition: the 'regalia' did survive the times and are currently kept in the Hofburg in Vienna: [url]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imperial_Treasury,_Vienna[/url]

[attachment=0]Reichsapfel.jpg[/attachment]
For a explanation on various orbs of different countries look here: [url]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Globus_cruciger[/url]

Certainly more than I had been able to find in my searches, thanks! I was mainly curious in the change in the orbs between the cruiser D68's crest and D89's Kevin posted above. Being American, my knowledge of symbology is more... corporate, so the change from a + in the orb to a ┬ (not sure if that will come through but it's similar to [url=https://www.ascii-code.com/194]ASCII 194[/url] was curious to me and I didn't know if there was a reason behind it.

[quote="Tracy White"]Thanks, Kevin - do you know of any resource that explains or details the symbology of the crest(s)?[/quote]
[url]https://www.heraldry-wiki.com/heraldrywiki/index.php?title=HMS_Exeter,_Royal_Navy[/url]
According to this page the ship's crest was designed in 1928 adapted from the Exeter city coat of arms (Logical, eh?). The crowned red lion with the golden orb are from the helmet sign of the CoA, the waves (very fitting for a ship!) were already in the shield bearers' pegases' wings.[attachment=0]Exeter.jpg[/attachment]
Now you ask about the [u]symbology [/u]of all the elements: well the lion is an animal of power, red is a fiery colour of passion, the crown and the orb are symbols of worldly power, the waves are a symbol of the sea connecting the peoples of the world, something like this. Any further or deeper explanation might be found in the official description of the coat of arms of Exeter, there it says:

"The crest itself is a red crowned lion holding a golden orb. This is for Richard Earl of Cornwall, Holy Roman Emperor. The same lion appears in the arms of Devon County Council and some of the towns and districts of Devon. The supporters are winged horses or pegases. The wings are charged with blue waves and thus is represented the river Exe which once made the city a major port."

Satisfied?

[quote="Tracy White"]Thanks, Kevin - do you know of any resource that explains or details the symbology of the crest(s)?[/quote]
No Tracy, unfortunately I do not.