The Ship Model Forum

FFG-7 and Darren:

Sincere thanks for the informative posts and the photos.

There is a general principle that I've learned over the course of my life: if you are in a supermarket or department store and are looking for an item, and you ask a salesperson where that item can be found, it is ALWAYS right behind you. So look there first.

Of course, I ignored that lesson in this case. After my initial post, I went to my go-to reference for topics like these: John H. Ladage, Merchant Ships: A Pictorial Study (Cornell Maritime Press, 1955), and on page 82-83, it describes four types of hull plating systems: "in-and-out plating," "joggled clinker plating," "composite joggled plating," and "all welded plating." In-and-out plating involves the lapping of seams and buts of the plates, resulting in outer and inner plate strakes--the pattern we are all familiar with on larger ships like the RN's County class cruisers. With joggled clinker plating, the hull plates are all flush which each other, but the upper or lower edge of each plate is slightly bent to overlap with the adjacent plate above or below it. Composite joggled plating combines elements of both in-and-out and joggled plating. And with all-welded plating, the hull plates are fitted end to end with no overlap, and welded together.

Below, please find an illustration I found online which illustrates the difference.

[attachment=0]Titanic Hull Plating.jpg[/attachment]

This illustration was from an article that describes the hull form of the RMS Titanic, which I found to be very interesting and useful, and which describes these various types of hull construction in greater detail:

https://www.encyclopedia-titanica.org/community/threads/titanics-hull-plating-that-joins-the-front.38365/

Applying this to the case of the River class frigates, it looks like there are ships that used in-and-out construction, joggled plating, composite joggled plating, and all-welded plating. So there you have it, a single class of ships employing all the major hull plating techniques in use at the time.

Anyhow, I've learned a lot and thank you again for your posting.

Wishing all a healthy and peaceful new year.

Best,

Mike E.

Some of the River class were welded, some were riveted. The welded ones have a strap over the weld joint, giving the appearance you noticed.
The riveted ones have horizontal sections alternating above, below, with each section having plates with the front edge under, the trailing edge over.

[img]http://www.resinshipyard.com/pictures/Riverclass/Hull%20plating.jpg[/img]

if they are welded then would be flush fitted as no overlapping needed.

All:

I have a question about the construction of the hull plating on River Class frigates from WW2 that I was hoping that someone could answer.

The hulling plating does not look like the typical plating found on other contemporaneous classes of Royal Navy warships which generally consisted of alternating, overlapping, longitudinal courses (out/in/out). Rather, they look as if the hulls plates are flush and the seams between the longitudinal plates are held together by a narrow longitudinal strip. Please see the photos below of HMCS Waskesiu and HMCS Swansea. (You might need to left click on the photos to enlarge them to see what I am talking about.)

Is this an optical illusion, or is this indeed the case? I am working on the Starling Models HMCS St. Stephen in 1/700 scale and am trying to figure out how this should be appropriately represented.

Any help on this matter would be greatly appreciated.

THANKS!

Mike E.

Planning to build a Starling Models River class ship in 1/700, I am wondering which River Class frigate contributed the most to Allied victory in WWII? What was her fit (mining gear or not) and camouflage?

[quote="BSalmon"]I have finished the Starling 1/350 scale River Class Frigate kit. I made my kit into the Burmese
Mayu, formerly the HMS Fal. I dated her appearance as she looked in Burmese Naval service around the late 1950s. In this period, there was very little change in her appearance from her Royal Navy WWII service.
One difference was her secondary AA guns were replaced with 4 single 40 mm Bofors. Also, her bridge structure was partially enclosed on the sides directly underneath the bridge wings.[/quote]

I have finished the Starling 1/350 River Class Frigate kit. I made my kit into the Burmese
Mayu, formerly the HMS Fal. I dated her appearance as she looked in Burmese Naval service around the late 1950s. For this period, there was very little change in her appearance from her Royal Navy WWII service.
One difference was her secondary AA guns were replaced with 4 single 40 mm Bofors. Also, her bridge structure was partially enclosed on the sides.

got my Starling river class in the post last week, looks really good, can't wait to work on it.

[size=120][color=#000080][b]Starling Models 1/350 kit for River class frigate![/b][/color][/size]

Mike McCabe of < [b][url=https://www.facebook.com/starlingmodels/]Starling Models[/url][/b] > announces (18 June 2018), "Some news on kits, the River class will be available in around four weeks now with pre-order available two weeks before. Our 1/350 Algerine class kit will be back in stock next week."

More about camouflage in 1942, the time of Operation Torch:

Alan Raven, [i]Warship Perspectives, Camouflage Vol. 2: Royal Navy 1942[/i], page 48 depicts HMS [i]Jed[/i] in a Western Approaches (WA) pattern of WA green, WA blue, and white. Those WA colours were very light and soon faded. When the UK allocated green pigments to other war production, black replaced WA green.

[i]Warship Perspectives, Camouflage Vol. 3: Royal Navy 1943-1944[/i], page 6: "The River-class frigates, the first of which entered service in 1942, were almost always painted in one of the Western Approaches patterns."

Graham, check Brian Lavery, [i]River-class Frigates and the Battle of the Atlantic[/i]:

pages 97-98: "Five of the class were set aside for minesweeping operations late in 1942 in preparation for Operation Torch, the invasion of North Africa. They formed the Tenth Minesweeping Flotilla and did some training in the Firth of Clyde, but it remained a shadow organization and was never used as such." HMS [i]Exe[/i] was in "the exercise."

pages 87 and 198: HMS [i]Spey[/i] and[i] Rother[/i], the first two Rivers, were on convoy escort duty by July 1942, [i]Spey[/i] sharing in the sinking of U-136 that month. < [url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_River-class_frigates/]Wikipedia List of River-class frigates[/url] > shows five other River-class frigates were completed when convoys were sailing from the UK for Operation Torch: HMS [i]Swayle, Tay, Exe, Waveney[/i], and [i]Test[/i].

An undated photo of HMS [i]Swayle[/i] in camouflage: [url]https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/41/HMS_Swale_K217.jpg[/url]. (2018-11-26 Author edited this line to correct the name.)

The first Rivers were fitted for minesweeping, but only once were they called upon to do any, when seven were collected in support of Operation Torch. Does anyone know which ships these were? Also, what was the gun fit? Supposedly the requirement called for only the forward 4" and three multiple light AA, presumably twin Oerlikons, but what was actually carried? Almost certainly it's too much to ask for the camouflage of each ship, but what's the harm in trying?

I've just been looking at the wide variety of LAA provided with this kit, but to my surprise there are only three single Oerlikons per hull. Definitely not enough, especially when the set provides three twin 4" - which River ever had such a heavy armament? Wasted space on sprue where more Oerlikons could have gone. I'm sure I have lots of spare Oerlikons from various kits, but they'll all be either too large to go with the neat Seal tooling, or the frightening White Ensign etch. If all else fails, there are enough of those to allow for getting lots wrong!

If you have deep pockets you could try purchasing a copy of a set of the original plans of one of the class from the National Maritime Museum collection: http://www.rmg.co.uk/shop/ship-plan-prints-scanning

A cheaper option might be to purchase a copy of Brian Lavery's book 'River-class Frigates and the Battle of the Atlantic'. On pages 216 and 217 a set of those plans, of HMS Nadder, is reproduced. With a magnifying glass you may be able to make out enough to satisfy your needs.

(I should add that these NMM plans are considerably more detailed than the HNSA set linked-to above. They show internal fittings, furnishings etc.)

Best wishes.

Morning all,

I'm new to the forum after finding it on google.

I'm looking to build a dissection/take apart model of a Royal Navy River Class Frigate (circa 1942) in particular i wish to detail the bridge deck, Signal Deck, Wheel House, CO's Sea Cabin and Chart House.

I've searched everywhere and all i can find a plans which a side view/top view only.

By any chance can anyone kindly supply these images or drawings of these that i can take a look at or point me in the right direction?

Thank you for reading.

Kind regards,

Stuart.

[quote="aptivaboy"]Hi all,

Are there any quality plans of the Rivers? I know the Floating Drydock has plans of the Tacoma-class, the Americanized River, but I'm interested in the British version for a potential HMS Tay build.

Thank you!

Bob[/quote]
HNSA had a general booklet of plans on the River on their documents section. It is not a Tacoma! I'm now looking at converting the ISW Burlington kit into a decent RN River ship. Looks quite doable.

Thank you, George, much appreciated.

Bob

[quote="George Hargreaves"]Here is a colour shot of HMCS Waskesiu K-330 the first Canadian River Class built.



My guess on the colours are MS2 and MS4a of an Admiralty Intermediate Disruptive Scheme but G45 and G55 are close and were used in 1943 when the ship commissioned. So no definite answer.

Cheers,
George[/quote]

That's a great colour photo,thanks for posting it George.

Scott

Hi Bob,

You may try here: CFB Esquimalt Naval & Military Museum
[url]http://www.shipmodels.info/mws_forum/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=158736[/url]
from the drawing collection, HMS Spey:
[url]http://www.navalandmilitarymuseum.org/archives/projects/ship-plans/river-class-frigate-hms-spey[/url]

Cheers,
George

Hi all,

Are there any quality plans of the Rivers? I know the Floating Drydock has plans of the Tacoma-class, the Americanized River, but I'm interested in the British version for a potential HMS Tay build.

Thank you!

Bob

On the Donald R. Koehler drawing of HMCS New Glasgow drawn in 1987 he represents HMCS New Glasgow circa January 1944 as commissioned. He has called out on the drawing 'when commissioned carried Admiralty Camouflage Scheme L-22 modified for RCN practice.' This camouflage pattern looks the same as for HMCS Waskesiu. He goes further and states that the Vertical Surfaces are Light Grey Overall and the dark areas are a shade of Gray-Green.

Can anyone shed light on what 'Admiralty Camouflage Scheme L-22' may be?

Cheers,
George