The Ship Model Forum

Those are beautiful! I'd love to do one in 1/72 scale.

quote="WeekendWarrior"][quote="raven316"]............. incorrect listing of it as a WWI [b]Light Cruiser PT Boat.[/b] [/quote]
[i]Very[/i] nice set of models you have there WW!

Re the advertising listing above for other model, now [i]there's[/i] a contradiction in terms. Guess they were thinking an [i]awfully[/i] big PT boat then. :smallsmile:

[quote="raven316"]Hi I ran across a large scale (I think) model of a Four Stacker in an antique store . It's 2 1/2 feet long and is in good shape. There is no information on her aside from an incorrect listing of it as a WWI Light Cruiser PT Boat. This is obviously not the best picture but it's the best I could get. https://farm1.staticflickr.com/324/19064291991_97f17e5c5c_k.jpg

Anyway I bought it for $300 and wondered what ya'll thought?[/quote]

Sorry to resurrect a long lost post but is your model similar to these from my own collection?

Some photos of the wreck here.

https://maritime-executive.com/article/ocean-infinity-finds-wreck-of-wwii-destroyer-that-was-captured-by-japan

:thumbs_up_1:

An expedition dove on Stewart, DD-224. She's in good shape. You can recognize her in the sonar scan.

[url]https://fox40.com/news/california-connection/shipwreck-ghost-ship-uss-stewart-pacific-california/amp/[/url]

Agree with you G-Opt. There are 2 renditions which exist of your image, the one you have posted Incorrectly captions the ship as Peary, the second labels the ship as Whipple. Four pipers are not my forte, but given her movements and layout, I would guess the ship to be Whipple. I suggest the location is the Brisbane River, likely taken at Hamilton wharves, and the date approx. early May 1942. At a guess, given the freeboard and accommodation ladder, the cruiser from which the image was taken may have been HMAS Australia.

Either way, Sydney or Brisbane, it would be well after the Java Campaign & after the dissolution of the old Asiatic Fleet.
Does not appear to be NEI waters, in any case.

The image posted by G-Opt looks very much like the Brisbane River.

[quote="GregoryC"]That book has been on my to read list for a while, I'll have to move it up. And no matter who Pillsbury thought was firing, her thinking it was friendly fire is just tragic.[/quote] If one could only own one book on (the naval events of) the Java Sea campaign then I think [i]In The Highest Degree Tragic[/i] would have to be it. Without a doubt the most thoroughly researched and up to date account at the present time.
:thumbs_up_1:

That book has been on my to read list for a while, I'll have to move it up. And no matter who Pillsbury thought was firing, her thinking it was friendly fire is just tragic.

Re the death of PILLSBURY, if you can find the article in the August 2013 issue of [i]America in WWII[/i] zine, it has the details. These were also incorporated (with a few more from the IJN side perhaps?) in the 2017 book, [b][u]IN THE HIGHEST DEGREE TRAGIC[/u][/b] (Potomac), which has many previously unpublished photos & rare interviews w/Asiatic Fleet vets, etc. For anyone who has a genuine--or even passing--interest in the Asiatic Fleet, the book is worth getting.

https://www.amazon.com/Highest-Degree-Tragic-Sacrifice-Asiatic/dp/1612348203/ref=rvi_d_sccl_2/144-6630632-3862366?pd_rd_w=QVHsR&content-id=amzn1.sym.f5690a4d-f2bb-45d9-9d1b-736fee412437&pf_rd_p=f5690a4d-f2bb-45d9-9d1b-736fee412437&pf_rd_r=YMYB1TREXZRR1G4FVE20&pd_rd_wg=6MeMB&pd_rd_r=88584e83-5263-40bc-b2bc-986fe619a84d&pd_rd_i=1612348203&psc=1

The similarity of TAKAO-class and BROOKLYN-class cruiser main battery arrangement was most likely the explanation for PILLSBURY's weird behavior that night...As the Japanese ships had intercepted her in exactly the area designated by COMSOWESPAC for fleeing Allied ships to meet up and move south to Oz...

FWIW

Not talking about that image at all...

...but this one.

[quote="G-Opt"]1) I think that is likely an Asiatic Fleet fourpiper later (post-NEI campaign) at Sydney...similar to this photo of WHIPPLE.[/quote]
If we are still talking about the below vessel, I would respectfully have to disagree on that location. Having spent a bunch of time [i]on [/i]Sydney Harbour, and much more time [i]in [/i]the suburbs surrounding it, the shoreline is just too flat. On the other hand, having also traveled out of Surabaya Roads by boat, the background certainly is flat enough to be Madura (which of course does not prove / mean it is), and no doubt other places too. It just ain't Sydney, IMO.

That photo being taken of one of the escaped AF DDs right after the NEI campaign would make a lot of sense and fits it well. The ladder on the ship where the picture was taken from makes it look like it might be the USS Black Hawk. The height and ladder seem to fit that.

As for the Pillsbury, that checks out that a few of the AF DDs may have kept the bridge searchlight as this photo indicates as well. That is a gut punch to read though. Given that she was being shelled by cruisers, it makes me wonder if she thought that she was under fire from Houston and Perth who's fate was not known by the rest of the fleet from what I understand. It hurts to read that her brave crew thought she was under possible friendly fire, and makes that sinking more tragic to me

1) I think that is likely an Asiatic Fleet fourpiper later (post-NEI campaign) at Sydney...similar to this photo of WHIPPLE.

2) Lend-lease DDs to GB did have shielded aft mounts, but they were mostly 12 pdr...The US aft 4-inch gun being one of the first things removed, as I understand it.

3) IJN records of the destruction of PILLSBURY had very explicit details of [i]"strong white light signals from the bridge area" [/i]of DD-227 as she frantically tried to identify herself just before she was blown to shreds. The range was 6,000 meters.

HTH

[quote="KevinD"][quote="GregoryC"]
This is probably a bad question, but which photo is this referring to (the one that Alan Raven thought was a British Lend Lease DD)?[/quote]
The third photo down in your post from Friday Feb 23rd, above on this page.[/quote]
Thanks for clarifying!

That photo I am confused about. On one hand it appears to still have it's searchlight on the bridge, which I am not aware of any Asiatic fleet destroyers retaining in during the war until their refits. On the other hand the shield on the stern 4 inch mount looks like one of the ones which were added to Asiatic fleet destroyers and it still appears to have all of its torpedo tubes and no 20 mms replacing the amidships searchlight. Did any non Asiatic fleet Clemsons have a shielded stern gun like that?

[quote="GregoryC"][quote="KevinD"]FWIW, of interest may (or may not) be that the late Alan Raven posited that it was / may be a Lend Lease DD in Brit hands and photo taken in the UK! (Partially / primarily(?) because of what he was convinced is / was camo.)[/quote]
This is probably a bad question, but which photo is this referring to (the one that Alan Raven thought was a British Lend Lease DD)?[/quote]
The third photo down in your post from Friday Feb 23rd, above on this page.

[quote="KevinD"]Hi D,

A little late to this party but.....................

[quote="G-Opt"] 6) Gunnery officers on several ships left written accounts and never mention anything about such platforms, and very little about adding MG armament, but we know they did. Offhand I recall a [b]JOHN D. FORD[/b] sailor (gunner) who recalled fitting up extra MGs on that flushdecker with pipe-stand mounts...[b]JDF[/b] had an aggressive gunnery section, and I wonder if that's [b]JDF[/b] next to [b]BLACK HAWK[/b]...It would also make more sense that she is the ship in the photo said to be [b]POPE[/b].[/quote]
FWIW, of interest may (or may not) be that the late Alan Raven posited that it was / may be a Lend Lease DD in Brit hands and photo taken in the UK! (Partially / primarily(?) because of what he was convinced is / was camo.)[/quote]
This is probably a bad question, but which photo is this referring to (the one that Alan Raven thought was a British Lend Lease DD)?



Also unrelated, but does anyone have a good view of one of the Asiatic Fleet DD's bridge by chance? I'm trying to figure out what the railing on the bridge looked like, as I think I'm going to need to modify the Flyhawk Ward a bit.

AFAIK the Asiatic Fleet tincans only had DC roll off racks.

I'm just skeptical because the Goodwin pic alleged to be POPE is in a photo album kept by a guy on a ship that did not operate w/POPE, and which has a number of erroneous IDs in it re the Java Campaign.

You're quite right that guys acquired many pics that were reprints..that was common enough. However, taking that viewpoint I might ask, [i]'Then how come that pic has not showed up in other albums?' [/i]
(Or maybe it did. I don't know.)
Anyway, it simply seems at least as strong an argument con as pro.

FWIW

Hi D,

A little late to this party but.....................

[quote="G-Opt"] 6) Gunnery officers on several ships left written accounts and never mention anything about such platforms, and very little about adding MG armament, but we know they did. Offhand I recall a [b]JOHN D. FORD[/b] sailor (gunner) who recalled fitting up extra MGs on that flushdecker with pipe-stand mounts...[b]JDF[/b] had an aggressive gunnery section, and I wonder if that's [b]JDF[/b] next to [b]BLACK HAWK[/b]...It would also make more sense that she is the ship in the photo said to be [b]POPE[/b].[/quote]
FWIW, of interest may (or may not) be that the late Alan Raven posited that it was / may be a Lend Lease DD in Brit hands and photo taken in the UK! (Partially / primarily(?) because of what he was convinced is / was camo.)

[quote="G-Opt"]7) The [b]HOBART[/b] guy's album definitely has serious errors in it--including mistaking pix taken in Gaspar Strait for Sunda Strait or Java Sea, etc. But, that doesn't matter. She never worked w/[b]POPE[/b], so I am very skeptical about that ID. I agree totally that it's highly likely a wartime AF fourpiper, though. Just not [b]POPE[/b].[/quote]
I didnt think that the album being in the hands of a Hobart vet meant that the photos contained were taken from Hobart. Didn't these sailor albums contain photos from numerous, or at least other, sources than from the ship said album owner was in? I though they contained a collection of photos with no specific 'point of origin', no?

And yes certainly some good info here gents! :thumbs_up_1:

BTW, did Pope have depth charge [i]throwers[/i], or just "roll offs"?