The Ship Model Forum

[quote="dhenning"]From the recent Anatomy of a Ship: USS Kidd, 108" x 60" x 12"

The Floating Drydock has a very good CD on the Fletcher class. As I recall, it has a table of all of the different sizes and dimensions of the carley floats.[/quote]

Thank you, dhenning! :)
BTW, I did try look into Anatomy of the Ship: The Sullivans (I do not remember if there is some different one with USS Kidd), but I didn't find it there. Maybe I missed it somewhere...
Anyway, my mistake and thank you again!

From the recent Anatomy of a Ship: USS Kidd, 108" x 60" x 12"

The Floating Drydock has a very good CD on the Fletcher class. As I recall, it has a table of all of the different sizes and dimensions of the carley floats.

Hi guys, do you have a dimensions of balsa life rafts used on Fletchers please? I saw (somewhere) they are 5ft width, but how long and height they are? Thanks! :smallsmile:

I know it has bee a while but I started building my Revell big Fletcher. I have purchased several Model Monkey parts for the conversion to a square bridge Fletcher. However, he does not have everything and I did contact him about doing that late war AA fit funnels for the USS Kidd. As he has posted here, there just is not enough demand for him to do that. There are some funnels over on Shapeways but they are very expensive. I'll have to add to my parts stock slowly. MM's parts are very nice AND reasonably priced. I do need to get a few more pieces from MM. I am also looking for the Edward Big Ed pe set for the Revell Fletcher. It is currently OOP at Edward so I need to scour the net for the set.

Alexey,

My reply to Takibi was to his request for drawings of USS BLACK (DD-666) specifically in 1944. FLETCHER's were built by eleven builders, some had/used unique building methods and even designs to things like bulwarks. The basic layouts were the same (weapons, deckhouses, etc), but bulwarks around 20-mm and 40-mm guns saw a lot of variation as did locations for things like floats. USS BLACK was a Federal-built unit. The drawings you reference (... https://abbot.us/plans/grid.shtml?5541-2 ...) are for Bath Iron Works (BIW) built units. The other link is for USS SIGSBEE (DD-502) (... https://abbot.us/dd502/ ...) an early Round-Bridge unit, which is quite different than the Square-Bridge units like USS BLACK. Further, even if units were built by one yard, if that unit was modified/repaired by another USN or Private Yard, the resulting configuration may end up being unique.

I don't have drawings for USS BLACK in her WWII configuration. Drawings for Federal-built sister units (DD-666 THROUGH 680) built during WWII likely would be representative of USS BLACK's configuration for 1944. The BIW drawings "could" be used if differences from photos in configuration with the last group of Federal-built units were noted and adjustments made for making a model.

PS; If one wanted engineering drawings of USS BLACK (or Federal-built units in general), going to NARA and extracting images from Microfilm is about the only option. Unless someone "happens" to have paper copies from other sources. The BGP paper drawings at NARA for the FLETCHER class destroyers are largely 1950's to 1960's post-WWII configuration, except for a very limited number of BGP's from WWII for select units.

[quote="Rick E Davis"]Takibi,

Sorry, but I don't have any detailed drawings of USS BLACK (DD-666) in WWII. The digital camera snapshots I have of USS BLACK's BGP date from 1966 in her 4-Gun configuration, which aren't complete coverage of all of her BGP and aren't really helpful for her WWII configuration.

[/quote]
?
https://abbot.us/plans/grid.shtml?5541-2
https://abbot.us/dd502/

Takibi,

Sorry, but I don't have any detailed drawings of USS BLACK (DD-666) in WWII. The digital camera snapshots I have of USS BLACK's BGP date from 1966 in her 4-Gun configuration, which aren't complete coverage of all of her BGP and aren't really helpful for her WWII configuration.

There maybe drawings for one of her Federal-built FLETCHER's in the block DD-666 through DD-680 in their WWII configuration, which all should be nearly the same. But, in general any WWII drawings of a Square-Bridge FLETCHER should serve as a "baseline" for which changes to USS BLACK's configuration can be made based on actual photos. Pay attention to the bulwarks around 20-mm and 40-mm guns and life raft (floats) locations.

Here are two overall photos of USS BLACK showing her 1944 configuration prior to her late 1944-early 1945 overhaul that updated her fire control radar from Mk 4 to Mk 12/22 plus other small details. (Note: The second image of USS BLACK I believe is dated and located in error on Navsource (they have May 1945) and actually dates from prior to her overhaul in early 1945. The big clue are the life rafts under the ships boats were removed during the overhaul.)

[url=https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/p303/TincanREDavis/tempImage2zHeOd.heic?width=1920&height=1080&fit=bounds][img]https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/p303/TincanREDavis/tempImage2zHeOd.heic?width=1920&height=1080&fit=bounds[/img][/url]

[url=https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/p303/TincanREDavis/tempImageMB2gDF.heic?width=1920&height=1080&fit=bounds][img]https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/p303/TincanREDavis/tempImageMB2gDF.heic?width=1920&height=1080&fit=bounds[/img][/url]

Hank,

You have dug into the "fine" details due to your 1/144 scale model. For 1/350 scale it gets to be more difficult to justify trying to add them. In 1/700 scale, unless you are someone like Jim Baumann, trying to add such small/fine details borders on insanity.

On ships, there are constant updates to correct problems or to upgrade for improvements. With general ship structure and power plant, BuShips issued ShipAlts that would be addressed during most times overhauls on availabilities. Then for Ordnance, including Fire Control, BuOrd issued OrdAlts. There were 1,000's of these issued for everything from replacing bad bearings to whole antennas. In Departure Reports, there would be a handful or two ShipAlts to be addressed which a description of what is to be done can be found, but there could be maybe a 100 OrdAlts ... and no real idea of what a specific OrdAlt was addressing. ShipAlts and OrdAlts continued into Post-WWII era and were updated until the ship was stricken.

An example of an interesting OrdAlt to appear during WWII, were the addition of handrails to the sides of some 5-in gun mounts. Specifically the mounts on the main deck more exposed to ocean waves where crewman could be washed overboard. The rails on the side of 51 and 55 mounts were common late in WWII.

I don't know for how long it was done on the 5-in gun shields, but I noticed on closeup overhead images of 5-in shields that there were TWO openings for both lefty and righty Gun Captain hatches. Which ever side wasn't used for the hatch, the other opening was plated over. I suspect that this practice was unnecessary after awhile, particularly when the 5-in gun shields were replaced with "light-weight" shields. I just have not tried to research this in detail. For modelers, except for the Hank's type :big_grin: , such details are invisible.

Dear Rick,

Thanks for sharing your knowledge as always. I mean to model the USS Black in her early 1945 (late 1944) pre-refit configuration 1/350 scale and just need solid info on which type of bridge to order from Model Monkey. Which you just confirmed, so Bettleham Steel it is.

Also, is it possible to receive copy or scan of BGP of USS Black DD-666? (I want to build her as historical as possible)
Thank you in advance.

Rick/Tom -

Thanks for the update on single 5"/38 gun mounts. I wasn't aware of the design history of the mount or the gun captn's hatch location. What I did find out about the single mounts was that (as on STODDARD) each one was a bit different in the external additions to the mount body - handrails, grabs, tie-offs, tri-pod feet locations on the top, and awning rails, etc. These were individual on each mount depending on the reason or need. My guess would be that shipyard availability/drydock periods were when any changes were made.

Hank

Rick:

I don't even remember the question after all these months but thanks for answering. Hank did a great job discerning the differences between the four remaining mounts on DD566, Stoddard.

Regards: Tom

Tom (Fliger747),

I missed your 31 August 2023 post. I don't know who you were posting your response to or what the question exactly was, but the 5-in/38 "guns" were not all exactly the same. There were different Mods as refinements/improvements were adopted on the production line. A noticeable difference were that the Gun Captain's hatch was either on the "left or right". The reason was that when production of the 5-in/38 mounts was being planned, the twin 5-in mounts needed two guns in the twin mount with mirror image layouts for loaders, etc. It was decided for the single 5-in guns that rather than produce a third mount type, that single mounts would use either a "left or right" 5-in gun inside the mount.

As for FLETCHER class drawings showing open 5-in/38 mounts, the initial plans for the FLETCHER class did indeed plan on open mounts for 53 and 54 mounts. That configuration was changed to enclosed mounts. On some "proposed" improvements, the original layout drawings were modified for illustration purposes.

"Guest" (are you unregistered or forgot to log in?),

If you are a non registered guest, I can't send you images and you may or may not be able to view images I post.

To answer your question I need some additional info. What timeframe are you modeling USS BLACK (DD-666)? You referenced a photo of BLACK in the 1960's after she was upgraded to the 4-Gun configuration with three twin 3-in RFG mounts. Is that the timeframe you would be modeling her, or just an image showing what you were looking for? What scale are you modeling USS BLACK? Doing a 4-Gun mod Fletcher can be a challenge.

When you say "the door is placed on the left of the aft wall", you mean on the portside?

From what I can see, USS BLACK has the so called "Bethlehem Steel" style navigation level bridge ... https://www.model-monkey.com/product-page/1-350-fletcher-class-square-bridge-pilot-house-bethlehem-steel-type ...

I have digital camera images of USS BLACK's BGP, but I didn't take overhead shots of her bridge.

However, I do have a BGP (dated 1956) overhead view of the bridge layout of her Federal sister, USS DORTCH (DD-670), which shows the so called "Bethlehem Steel" style bridge. She was also in the 4-Gun configuration, and both of their bridge layouts should be similar. Although internal layouts could be different. The aft bulkhead (portside) door is to the bridge "Water Chest" (aka Toilet).

[url=https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/p303/TincanREDavis/tempImagegG8tye.heic?width=1920&height=1080&fit=bounds][img]https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/p303/TincanREDavis/tempImagegG8tye.heic?width=1920&height=1080&fit=bounds[/img][/url]

Hello everyone!

I have searched for information on the bridge type of USS Black DD-666 and the placement of the aftmost door - and based on this photo (https://www.navsource.org/archives/05/pix2/0566643.jpg) it appears that the door is placed on the left of the aft wall of the superstructure - basically, Bettlehem Steel configuration (as opposed to Bath Iron Works configuration with the door on the starboard side). That said, I would be grateful for any additional confirmation (or the opposite) since I am not quite convinced by a single grainy photo, so if you have a better quality and/or entirely different photo, please send them.

Thank you all in advance.

Not all the mounts were the same on the Fletchers. I am not sure for the reasoning for this. Hank Strub has researched for his Stoddard (DD566) for which he designed and 3D printed the mounts and comment on. which is which. I have seen no info indicating a possible open top set of mounts but our resident Fletcher expert Rick E Davis would know.

Found an interesting set of plans for the Fletcher class. Quality is not great but it has some interesting details to pick out.
One is the mast rigging
[attachment=2]IMG_2107.jpeg[/attachment]

Another is that I get the impression there was some plans to make Mt’s 53 & 54 open top like on the Sims/Benson/Gleaves class. Those two mounts are drawn differently from the other three.
[attachment=0]IMG_2103.jpeg[/attachment]

Cover sheet info
[attachment=1]IMG_2100.jpeg[/attachment]

Matt

Thanks, David & Timmy, I submitted a couple of guest messages and they have to be approved. I clicked, Cadman's, link that David posted and I'm prompted to login, which I'm not able to do because I don't remember my password and I have changed my E-mail address, so I can't use the forgot my password option.

Then I searched to find a build by Cadman so I could contact him to ask that he could update my E-mail address, and possibly give me a temporary password to recover my account. I looked through many pages and I couldn't find any builds by, Cagman.

Then, I decided to open a new account, so I could recover my previous account, and this is my first comment. My new problem is I used my current E-mail address to create this account and that will have to be fixed by Cadman. Anyway, I'm back and I hope to have everything straightened out so I can use my snaphappy321 account once again.

Roger snaphappy321

Roger, your account name is snaphappy321: http://www.shipmodels.info/mws_forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=10795

As for resetting your email/password, only Cadman can do that.

Rick E. Davis,
I wonder if you remember me after all this time? My name is Roger, I'm the guy using the worst Fletcher Kit possible to build an RC version of DD555. I'm also building a 1/96 scale Fletcher DD473. I've never finished either build. I had way to many things going at the same time and I got burnt out and I haven't done any model work in a long time. I'm trying to recover my account here. I searched through a mess of pages to figure out my screen name at this site. I've changed from using Yahoo to Proton, so I can't use forgot password to reset it so I don't have to create a new account.

Is there any way to recover my account? I tried to email the admin, but the email bounced back to me as undelivered. Any hepl you could give me would be greatly appreciated
Roger B.

JPK,

Hank's build has a lot of detail on building a "post-WWII" FLETCHER. MANY things would apply to USS KIDD @ late 1945. But, a lot doesn't. Hank and Wiley are doing "Ultimate" model-building, which is beyond a lot of peoples capabilities. You can spend a lot to upgrade the kit or just enough to get the basics right. But, given that the Revell 1/144 scale kit depicts an EARLY Round-Bridge FLETCHER with many errors (wrong Mk 37 director, should be a SQUARE-BACK one and NO one bridge equipment), you will need to replace or modify almost everything of the superstructure above the main and 01 deck levels. ModelMonkey makes those parts, but the cost will not be cheap. Replacements for 40-mm (twin and quad) and 20-mm (twin) guns, will be harder to get. BlackCat makes really nice twin 20-mm mounts (with Mk 14 gunsight) in 144 scale. I can't keep up with which 3-D printer firms have parts available, so I'm unsure who makes the 40-mm mounts in this scale.

Rick