The Ship Model Forum

Conversion Plans for F 48 HMAS Manoora

[url]https://archive.org/details/f48ga1938[/url]

Conversion Plans for F 95 HMAS Westralia

[url]https://archive.org/details/f95ga1940[/url]

Maybe someone will help and provide photos .. Looking for original photos for British AMCS - Ranpura, Rawalpindi, Rajputana, Cilicia and Circassia. Contact on PM. Needed to create 3d projects

you ask for weapons see wikipwedia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMS_Jervis_Bay

I do not know where the eighth cannon you mention was supposed to be placed,there was no place to put them!

HI tjstoneman.About painting HMS Jervis Bay in 1940 year before sinking had a hull painted with MSG-marchant side gray, MD decks marchant deck gray.Suggestion consists of the few preserved photos. See also the film from the exhibition.Interesting fact - the pontoons on the bow are painted white!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vbs_iRGt_bA

Lenton and Colledge [i]"Warships of World War II"[/i] gives an armament of 8 - 6inch and 2 - 3 inch AA. No picture I am afraid.

The AMC Jervis Bay's gallant action in defence of her convoy, 80 years ago this week, is well known - but what evidence, if any, is there of her configuration at the time of her loss (or, rather, shortly before it)?

Richard Osborne et al [i]Armed Merchant Cruisers 1878-1945[/i] (Windsor: World Ship Society, 2007) gives a main armament of eight 6" guns, but the recent AJM 1/700 resin kit provides only seven, a number also quoted elsewhere. AJM's instructions show an overall mid grey colour scheme (replicated in most of the paintings of the action), whereas Osborne et al include a black and white photo of her in what is probably her prewar Aberdeen & Commonwealth Line colour scheme of green hull, white upperworks and yellow or buff funnel, captioned as being taken in Dakar in 1940 (she left the South Atlantic station in April 1940, so probably taken early that year). A photo on the HMS Jervis Bay website said to date from September 1940 (http://www.hmsjervisbay.com/Images/BayShips/Jbhx72s.jpg) shows a dark hull, slightly lighter appearing upperworks and a dark funnel - but is that due to the nature of the film?

Does anyone have more details?

[img]https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-aeb2oXejb4Q/UU6ipb5dylI/AAAAAAAABLo/jjFDOEyi5t0/w1016-h762-no/IMG_1065.JPG[/img]
[i]HMS Rawalpindi[/i]

(Sorry. Can't help but post a picture to go with the title of the thread.)

I think of AMCs as auxiliaries first and warships third. While transport doesn't show up in the RN lexicography transports they are nevertheless. They have bunks. They hold troops. It's what they do. The whole "cruiser" thing is something of a misnomer leftover, I suspect, from the bill that funded [i]Mauritania[/i] and [i]Lusitania[/i].

If I was king of the world I'd call this forum "auxiliaries and merchants" as that covers the things not adequately covered elsewhere without leaving gaps the size of [i]SS Ohio[/i] from Operation Pedestal or [i]SS Stephen Hopkins[/i] of v. Stier fame. Or indeed the size of [i]USS Neosho[/i] or [i]Altmark[/i], since neither one was an amphib nor a liner. (I suppose [i]Ohio[/i] and [i]Stephen Hopkins[/i] are technically both liners since I do believe they both belong to lines and probably mostly operated on fixed schedules (or would have if it had been possible), just not passenger liners.

In any case, fascinating ships, no matter what you wish to call them.

I find it strange that AMCs are grouped with amphibs/transports just because they mainly come from merchant ship origins.

Would everyone here characterize AMCs as auxiliary warships? So therefore shouldn't they be grouped under cruisers?

Or may I suggest the moderators re-title the "Amphibs and Transports" section thread to "amphibs and merchants" thread to more accurately reflect ALL the kinds of ship threads posted about there, including the merchant ships.

Just a suggestion.

Hi Freighter-I,am autor history about Hms Chitral in Modelarstwo Okrętowe......

Palco,
Re plans for HMS Chitral. See issue 17 of the Polish Magazine Modelarstwo Okretowe - details in the 'Books and Reference Material' forum on this website.

They had plans identified there.

Hi my friends.Any news to Hms Chitral?Maybe someone found interesting photos?

Dear Michael (ref: HMS Chitral),

As per some of your questions in regards to the radar fitted to this ship I have found the following in what I have:

[i]Initially reconditioned ex-warship Type 271 sets were to be supplied from early 1942 onwards. To ease the burden on the strained fitting-out facilities in shipyards it was decided to produce prefabricated radar offices. These were fitted and wired into a 3ton prefabricated hut and permitted instant installation at the shipyards speeding up turnaround.

The siting of radar on individual ships such as merchant ships or AMC's was subject to the following restrictions:

1) They had to be fitted outside a 11ft radius from the ship's standard compass
2) The centre of the radar lantern had to be at least 11ft from the ship's signal mast
3) The base of the radar lantern had to be either above the top of the funnel or at least 20ft from it.[/i]

I suggest these answer your questions about what your seeing in your Chitral photographs and why it is positioned where it is.
Regards
Laurence

No plans, but at least there is a new World Ship Society book out about Armed Merchant Cruisers - see their website at :-

http://worldshipsociety.org/publications/books-wss-inprint.php

or look at their description taken from their publications page :-


[b]Armed Merchant Cruisers 1878 - 1945[/b]

Author: Richard Osborne, Harry Spong & Tom Grover
Publication No.: 0145 ISBN: Publication Date: Aug 2007
[b]Member price to UK addresss: £30+£5.60 or £6.50[/b], Member price to address outside of UK:£30+£10.40 or £19.92 Regular price to UK address : £45+£5.60 or £6.50 Regular price to address outside of UK: £45+£10.40 or £19.92

REGULAR [b]NON-MEMBER PRICE [/b]- Only [b]£45 plus packing/parcel post of (UK) £5.60 (or £6.50 – 1st class) or £10.40 (elsewhere – surface mail)[/b]
Optional Air Mail Rates: outside of Europe - £19.92


[b]ARMED MERCHANT CRUISERS 1878 – 1945[/b]

By

Richard Osborne, Harry Spong & Tom Grover

Armed Merchant Cruisers (AMCs) performed many essential functions during both World Wars but their vulnerability in action gained them the unfortunate sobriquet of “Admiralty Made Coffins”. Despite their obvious limitations, the AMCs of the 10th Cruiser Squadron played a significant role in defeating Germany during the 1914 – 1918 conflict, while, in both wars, AMCs substituted for regular cruisers and escorts engaged in patrol and escort work. This book explores the origins, capabilities and uses of AMCs in 1885, 1914 – 1918 and 1939 – 45 as well as explaining the reasons for their demise during the latter conflict.

This hardcover, 328 page, A4 book, which is illustrated by 262 monochrome photographs, contains four discrete parts, the first of which is devoted to HMS HECLA (1878). Part two explores the origins of the employment of steam powered merchant armed cruisers, including the 16 ships hired during the Russian war scare of 1885, and the introduction of Government subsidises to encourage the construction of mercantile tonnage which could be employed in a cruising role in wartime. Part three is devoted to work of AMCs during the 1914-1918 conflict, ranging from the vital blockade duties performed by the AMCs of the 10th Cruiser Squadron to operations in the South Atlantic and elsewhere. Part four, which covers the period from 1920 – 1945, describes how the Admiralty encouraged the construction of ships pre-stiffened to receive 6-inch guns, the effect of the collapse of the International Mercantile Marine on the availability of potential AMCs, the requisitioning, outfitting and operational use of AMCs during the Second World War and the competing interests that led to the demise of the Royal Navy’s force of AMCs during 1942 – 1944. The volume is completed by 7 appendices that detail (1) ships receiving subsidises prior to World War I, (2) the movements of the 10th Cruisers Squadron during 1914 - 1917, (3) a list of ships stiffened by 1933, (4) requisitioning and conversion dates in 1939 – 1940 and AMCs involved in escorting (5) HX/BHX, (6) SC and (7) SL/SLF convoys.

MEMBER PRICE
Only £30 plus packing/parcel post of (UK) £5.60 (or £6.50 – 1st class)
or £10.40 (elsewhere – surface mail)
Optional Air Mail Rates: outside of Europe - £19.92


REGULAR NON-MEMBER PRICE
Only £45 plus packing/parcel post of (UK) £5.60 (or £6.50 – 1st class)
or £10.40 (elsewhere – surface mail)
Optional Air Mail Rates: outside of Europe - £19.92

Rob.I asked in Glasgow Museum of Transport about plans to armed merchant cruisers.I have any answer.Maybe You can ask about plans?
Pieter-I have this book.Thanks for suggestion.

If you're doing a waterline version, there are some very good 1/1200 waterline drawings of Comorin in peacetime to be found in "Miniature Merchant Ships" by John Bowen.

Also, try the Glasgow Museum of Transport,

Cheers,

Rob

Hallo.Laurence-thanks for info about Hms Chitral.
Rob-two weeks ago I had answer from NMM.Helted any plans before and after reconstructions Hms Chitral.I must try ask for sister ship Hms Comorin.I know that in many newspapers printed after war in Uk was published detailed drawing about Royal Navy warships.Maybe in this way?

[i]CHITRAL's[/i] conversion into an AMC was undertaken at Glasgow between the 30th August 1939 until 4th October 1939.
She had 7 x 6-inch guns fitted.
3 x 4-inch substituted for 3-inch and 2 x 0.5" quads added in mid-1940.
6 x 20mm added by mid-1943.
These details come from the AMC article I sent Jim B.

According to Rohwer [i]Chitral [/i]was quite busy in the AMC's in the Northern Patrol early war.
On the 20th of November 1939 [i]Chitral [/i]stopped south of Iceland the [i]Berta Fisser[/i] (4,110 tons) which was scuttled.
On the 21st of November she stopped the [i]Teneriffe [/i](4,996tons) which was again scuttled in the Denmark Strait to avoid capture.

He mentiones [i]Chitral [/i]once again in January 1944 as she was then part of the Sommerville's small Eastern Fleet in the Indian Ocean.
She was classified there as an auxiliary cruiser for convoy duties.

[i]Chitral [/i]was built in A. Stephen & Sons Ltd in Glasgow, Scotland.
Their archival records are at the following:

UCS 3 1813-1968: board, financial and production records, stock and wages books, plans, photographs etc
Glasgow University Archive Services.

1852-1954: ledgers, journals, estimate books, plans
National Maritime Museum: The Caird Library, Manuscripts Section
For more information on also see NMM Guide vol 2 1980.

UGD4 1824-1964: minutes, letter books, diaries, tender books, Burghead day books etc
Glasgow University Archive Services

Kind Regards
Laurence

I am not familiar with the ship you mention, but a good starting point would be to find where she was built. Most UK shipbuilder's archives ended up in local museums or libraries. If you know where she was built, let me know and I will see if I can find which museum/library to contact.

Plans in them can be a bit hit and miss, but generally you can find something which may be of use.

Cheers,

Rob

Thanks for answer Rob.I have photos to HMS CHITRAL from iWM.IWM helted only some photos this ship.I found next in Australian War Memorial.Where is dockyard plans ?I dont know.I ask for Hms Corfu,Cilicia,Canton,Worcestershire ect in NMM any plans.