The Ship Model Forum

[size=150]Hi there Meister Baumann and all.[/size]

[quote="JIM BAUMANN"]Beautifully made... the sharpness of your styrene work is inspirationa l![/quote]

[size=150]Thanks very much for your remark. It was very easy to make.

The next step, the wiring, was not that easy [i][b]at all[/b][/i]. First, what had to be done is 4 sections of brackets, at an uneven spacing, and lots of wiring in the racks. After some research, I could not find a complete picture of the rear of the main mast of a modernized Fletcher (to say nothing of [color=#FF0000][b]Jorge Juan[/b][/color] herself), and even in sections, I found out that not all the ships had --as usual-- the same arrangements, but I could more or less stablish that most of the ships had similar numbers of brackets in similar sections, so as representative of the class I was using the mast of [b]USS The Sullivans[/b], of which I have excellent pictures.[/size]
[attachment=7](1047).JPG[/attachment]
[size=150]At first I tried to replicate the racks in the aft stack, and made all the pieces accordingly, using 2.00x0.5 mm. Evergreen strip,with sections of 0.5x0.25 mm. Evergreen as well. It had worked well on the stack, but (I noticed it too late), because it had required no handling at all and I was using small sections of stretched sprue for the wiring itself. It was not the case here: I had to handle it continuously, using copper wire for the wiring, because the stretched sprue broke easily with so much handling and bending at odd angles. I also discovered at my own expense that the copper wire has a life of itself and takes its own decisions, that in even in small bundles can coincide or not with [i]my own[/i] decisions.
All this together along with the amount of glue that I had to use made the vertical strips too soft, and eventually they bent and broke. A full three-day work directly to the bin...[/size]
[attachment=6](1048).jpg[/attachment]
[size=150]I had to start everything again, this time trying to make the thing a bit more solid, using 2.mm Evergreen channel and 0.5x0.5 mm. strip instead. The only drawback is that the channel limits the number of wires to only 5 instead of the 7 that I was using before, but it was now way stronger, and I thought it could cope with the unavoidable handling. It did.[/size].
[attachment=5](1049).jpg[/attachment]
[size=150]The trickiest thing was to comb the copper wire in the right places at the right angles to form the three waves that are so typical of these masts, and all of them at the same time, the only possible way that I found to have all of them identical. I did the job using a 3.2 mm. tubing section bent under the pressure of two 2.00 mm. rod sections. I made a couple of tests before, and apparently it worked.[/size]
[attachment=4](1050).jpg[/attachment]
[attachment=3](1051).jpg[/attachment]
[size=150]I made the middle wave first, and then the third and then the first, because the middle can be done stretching the wires un and down, but the other two have to be made with only a two mm. margin. I said [i]apparently[/i], because this time the copper wires got really temperamental and all the three curves seemed to agree on bending together to almost 30º to the right. It cost me blood to take them to the right position, but more or less I think I got it.[/size]
[attachment=2](1052).jpg[/attachment]
[attachment=1](1053).jpg[/attachment]
[size=150]After this I simply had to add stretched sprue sections to the sides of the racks, this time a bit thinner to compensate the thickness of the 0.5 mm. bars.[/size]
[attachment=0](1054).jpg[/attachment]
[size=150]I had to accept some compromise in the relative thickness of the elements, but I broke nothing, all the elements are there, the racks are not thicker than the mast itself (my fear nr. one) and I have to add the vertical ladder, many smaller elements and all the rigging and halyards yet, so I think the final effect will be good all the same.

Feel free as usual to let me know your views and suggestions if there is something else I can do at this stage.

Very best regards from this side of the ocean,

Willie.[/size]

Beautifully made....

the sharpness of your styrene work is inspirationa l!

Jim B :wave_1:

[size=150]Hi there all modellers again,

The next step, the torpedo crane, was again a passtime in between I decide on the main mast.
This torpedo crane was quite distinctive in the Fletcher´s silhouette:[/size]

[attachment=9](1037).jpg[/attachment]

[size=150]It was present in [b][color=#FF0000]Jorge Juan[/color][/b] as well, as it can be seen in this otherwise blurry picture :[/size]

[attachment=8](1038).jpg[/attachment]

[size=150]After the many pictures I have found of this crane, I could see that there are many different models, or variations, of the same elements, but this one seems to be the most universal, but again with the handle at front or at the side of the main support:[/size]

[attachment=7](1039).jpg[/attachment]

[size=150]On the other hand, the head of the crane seems to follow the same pattern in all cases, with the same elements in the same position:[/size]

[attachment=6](1040).JPG[/attachment]

[size=150]The kit offers a crane, but very crude for this scale.[/size]

[attachment=5](1041).JPG[/attachment]

[size=150]The measures are basically right, and I considered recovering the cross, but I decided that it would take as much time --if not more-- as building a new one, that was what what I eventually made. the base is a piece of 2.5 mm. Evergreen rod, with all the rest of the elements built accordingly to this size[/size]

[attachment=4](1042).JPG[/attachment]
[attachment=3](1043).JPG[/attachment]
[attachment=2](1044).JPG[/attachment]

[size=150]When set in place, the mount is quite convincing, and it will be more when it is painted, dry-brushed and finished with a piece of chain hanging. I could not find a clear picture of the base on deck, so I imagined one, and made the body of the crane longer than necessary so that it can be hoisted if desired[/size]

[attachment=1](1045).JPG[/attachment]
[attachment=0](1046).JPG[/attachment]

[size=150]I hope you like it, and very best regards from this side,

Willie.[/size]

Willie,

I just sent you a PM re. our email exchanges (or lack thereof!!). Your work on the mast/RADARs and the small deck guns looks 1st Class - I hope to get back to lil STOD soon enough - I'm about at the same area (main mast) as you seem to be. Glad to see new posts from you and your progress!!

Hank

[size=150]Hi there Marijn and all,[/size]
[quote="marijn van gils"]Great to see you back at the bench Willie! :thumbs_up_1: :thumbs_up_1: :thumbs_up_1:[/quote]

[size=150]Thanks very much for your welcome. Actually I was never away from the bench --I simply changed the corner. When the work on the radars and the wiring became too frustrating and unsucessful, I devoted some time and research to German [i]U-Boote[/i] artillery. German [i]U-Boote[/i] in WWII are my subject since I was a teenager, and I have already in store three Revell submarines in 1/72 scale, a VII-C (for [i]U201[/i], Adalbert Schnee), an early IX-C (for [i]U66[/i], Richard Zapp) and a late war IX-C with extended Wintergarten (for [i]U516[/i], Hans-Rutgen Tillessen).

For these monsters (in 1/72 they are huge !!!) I have already made all the artillery but the [i]Flak Vierling[/i] for the late war IX-C, what means two 105 mm, one 88 mm., two single and two double 20 mm. mounts and two 37 mm. single mounts. This time I had some more success than with the [b][color=#FF0000]Jorge Juan[/color][/b] main mast.

The 20 mm. [i]Flaks[/i] needed lots of scratch build, but I think they came out quite nicely :[/size]
[attachment=6](1037).JPG[/attachment]
[attachment=5](1038).jpg[/attachment]
[size=150]As for the 37 mm. [i]Flaks[/i], only [i][b]one[/b][/i] was necessary, but this mount has been my favourite naval gun ever, since I discovered this picture in the summer 1980, virtually a lifetime ago:[/size]
[attachment=4](1039).JPG[/attachment]
[size=150]The caption said briefly "[i]U505, the first German submarine to surrender to the US Navy[/i]". It was only much time later that I discovered that this is not [i]U505[/i] at all, but [i]U172[/i], and that she was not surrendering, but just the opposite: she was just coming back to Lorient from the Western Atlantic, with car tires (hanging on the 105 mm. gun, before the bridge) and the flag of US merchant [i]SS Santa Rita[/i] as trophies. What a difference.

Anyhow, and for whatever reason, this gun pointing up made me daydream for years and decades. As I had some spares from shared sprues in both IX-C´s, I was able to make [i][b]two[/b][/i] separate models of this [i]Flak[/i] gun, one in travelling position and the second one pointing upwards with maximum elevation:[/size]
[attachment=3](1040).jpg[/attachment]
[attachment=2](1041).jpg[/attachment]
[attachment=1](1042).jpg[/attachment]
[attachment=0](1043).JPG[/attachment]
[size=150]All the rest of the guns are also finished and ready to paint. Sadly my battery charger is dead, and I cannot make any pictures for the moment.

But these U-Boote will have to wait until Jorge Juan is finished. Otherwise I will have too many things to handle at the same time.

So sorry to include this off-topic in the thread, but it has also been a pleasure to share this work with you all.

Very best regards from this corner of the North Atlantic,

Willie.[/size]

Great to see you back at the bench Willie! :thumbs_up_1: :thumbs_up_1: :thumbs_up_1:

[size=150]Hi all modellers once again.

It has been quite a long time without any update in this thread. I have to say that 1/1 scale life has once more seriously interfered with advanced modelling. Other than this I have been stack with the main mast, virtually the only major element that has to be completed yet.

I have devoted lots of time to the two radar aerials, with less-than-promising results as for now, and at this 1/144 scale, PE seems to not even exist. Too bad.

The second thing to be solved is the wiring up the mast. It is complicated, to say the least. Lots of time were devoted to this subject too, and it was not until a short time ago that I found what I think that can be if the solution, at least something that can be tested.[/size]

[size=150]Before anything else, I added some elements to the hull, the water canals all along the hull, small things that are very easy to build and that add realism when put together. I used for this 0.5x0.4 mm. Evergreen strip. I tried 0.25x0.5 mm. at first, but it was too thing, it could break easily, and this monster hull will require lots of handling yet.[/size]
[attachment=9](1027).JPG[/attachment]
[size=150]The stern had the very same solution :[/size]
[attachment=8](1028).JPG[/attachment]
[size=150]And the same all along the hull. I found a couple of interesting details that I gladly added too:[/size]
[attachment=7](1029).JPG[/attachment]
[attachment=6](1030).JPG[/attachment]
[size=150]In the last picture it is easy to see the bumps that I made in the hull to give it some uniformity with the oil canning for and aft.

After this, the mast. This pic is an example of what has to be done. Lots of small elements, interfering with each other everywhere, what means that every step has to be carefully calculated:[/size]
[attachment=5](1031).JPG[/attachment]
[size=150]I decided that the elements have to be built from the inside to the outside, leaving the bigger elements as the last step, and always leaving some room for the secondary wiring lines. The first thing were then the brackets that seem to support the brunt of the weight of the wiring lines. In my files, I could find 14 of these brackets, most of the placed at uneven distances:[/size]
[attachment=4](1032).JPG[/attachment]
[size=150]This is [b]USS Isherwood[/b], but after everything I have reseached, this mast is representative of any square-bridged Fletcher. From the flying bridge downwards there are some more. I made four, the last one being necessary to secure the lower section of the wiring, but only three of the will be visible in my model, as the rest of them would be covered by the deck of the commodore cabin the this ship displayed.[/size]
[attachment=3](1033).JPG[/attachment]
[attachment=2](1034).JPG[/attachment]
[size=150]As it can be observed, the brackets are made fast on the sides. I made the circles with 4.0 mm Evergreen tubing, filed and sanded inside and outside to acceptable calibers, cut in the rear to allow the correct placing, and completed with scraps of stretched sprue. In this case, I had to trade [i]reality[/i] against [i]realism[/i], beause I was not able to handle smaller pieces. This is the main mast as for now :[/size]
[attachment=1](1035).JPG[/attachment]
[attachment=0](1036).JPG[/attachment]
[size=150]I know they are a bit too thick, but I think this problem can be covered to some extent by not giving them any kind of shading when they are painted, and only some dry-brush lights, so that they are apparent but without highlighting their true thickness.[/size]

[size=150]I hope you like the process, and very best regards from this side,

Willie.[/size]

Willie,
Well, I certainly don't intend to make any more work for either of us, but this is one of the problems with modeling items that tend to not have a great deal of reference photos or plans of minute details to rely upon. I think your boat will do fine as it currently exists - your detailing has certainly improved what you began with from the basic kit part.

Hank

[size=150]Hi there Hank, Meister Baumann, Tom, Marijin and all,

Thanks very much for your feedback and your interest, really much appreciated.[/size]
[quote="BB62vet"] I noticed that you have added frames on either side of the inside of the hull - this would be consistent with the boat as shown in your photo #1015, but only partially exposed.
My guess is that the framing was covered by the 1950s, but that's only a guess. [/quote]
[size=150]Honestly, I was not able to clarify this subject. It was imposible to find any clear picture of the inside of the inboard details of the whale boat model I was reproducing, and as only source I followed the model of this whale boat:[/size]
[attachment=1](1025).jpg[/attachment]
[size=150]...along with the sketches of Al Ross in his AOTS [b]The Sullivans[/b] --very clear things, on the other hand-- and both seemed to describe the same thing, i.e., frames. Your reasoning sounds consistent, and you are probably right. Too bad, because at this stage of the construction to go back to the beginning, with the stern complete, and everything that should be deleted would be no good. I know myself and my fat fingers too well at this stage of my life.

On the other hand, the second picture that you uploaded to the thread has allowed to me to realize that I had omitted the hooks and reinforcements that were used to lift the whaler out of the drink. I have added the elements accordingly, and also some other things that I had not done yet:[/size]
[attachment=0](1026).jpg[/attachment]
With this, there is more detail, and again at no cost in work or time.
[quote="Fliger747"]You might want to check the inclination of the shaft as it is probably not parallel to the keel bottom but inclined as often were the motor assemblies.[/quote]
[size=150]Yes, I have noticed that as well. This piece moved during the process, only a fraction of mm., but it did, and was enough to be counted as a mistake. It was the first piece that I set in place in its moment, and it moved probably because of the slit in the hull that it had in the area for the corresponding Revell piece, and that I did not consider necessary to fill. Actually, the skeg broke during the last part of the process, and I had to make a new one, and it was not easy, as it has a curious shape, and is so tiny. As a solution, I will attach the screw with some angle, and as this section of the boat will be inboard-orientated, and behind the davit, I think this obvious mistake will be not noticed.[/size]
[quote="Fliger747"]I used to run a 26' MWB at one time, as I believe did Hank, but I never paid much attention to the details out of water (half century ago)[/quote]
[size=150]My case too, Tom. We had one of these thing on board our ship (39 years ago !!!!), and as it was always hanging from her davits and was rarely used, I had little opportunity (well, and interest) to get inside.[/size]
[quote="Fliger747"]Just curious as to how you intend to suspend this boat from the davits.[/quote]
[size=150]I don´t know myself either, but most surely I will use the plates that are already in place (made with melted plastic, marked with blue arrows), with a sketch of lifting eye, and a block attached to it, to be itself attached to the second block in the top of the davit with sections of stretched sprue. I will try this, but maybe will I have to simplify and omit the lifting eye, as these pieces are very tiny.[/size]

[size=150][i]Meister [/i]Baumann, the Fletchers in the Spanish Navy had no canopy, so it will not be necessary, but your tip is excellent. I have been considering your method for a long time to make the blast bags, using scraps of stretched sprue to make the wrinks covered with white glue. I think it can work wonderfully, and guarantee that they are not similar to each other.

So that´s all for now. Thanks again for your interest, and very best regards from this side of the seas,

Willie.[/size]

If you need to make the sprayhood like the one in the last shown image

you can do so by making a wire frame and creating the ' hollowed out' canvas using white glue

these are a couple of my 1/350 boats I made back in 2010 for my 1899 Bouvet project

http://www.modelwarships.com/reviews/ships/fr/LeBouvet/350-ysm-jb/index.html

My camera has improved in the meantime! :big_grin: :wave_1:

[img]http://www.modelwarships.com/reviews/ships/fr/LeBouvet/350-ysm-jb/images/Bouvet-build-057.jpg[/img]

[img]http://www.modelwarships.com/reviews/ships/fr/LeBouvet/350-ysm-jb/images/Bouvet-build-059.jpg[/img]

[img]http://www.modelwarships.com/reviews/ships/fr/LeBouvet/350-ysm-jb/images/Bouvet-build-058.jpg[/img]

[img]http://www.modelwarships.com/reviews/ships/fr/LeBouvet/350-ysm-jb/images/Bouvet-build-060.jpg[/img]

Great job on the boat Willie! :thumbs_up_1: :thumbs_up_1: :thumbs_up_1:
Some complicated shapes in there...

Willie,
Great job on this build! So inspiring to for me to take extra time and energy to do the same on my up coming project.

Cheers,
Todd

Willie:

Excellent fairing of the shaft, keg and rudder assembly. You might want to check the inclination of the shaft as it is probably not parallel to the keel bottom but inclined as often were the motor assemblies. I used to run a 26' MWB at one time, as I believe did Hank, but I never paid much attention to the details out of water (half century ago). I am glad you were able to make a nice work out of the kit boat hull. With our 3D printing program, Hank and I had much teeth gnashing to create an accurate smothed hull. By contrast the curved canopy were quite easy. Yes I have smashed either rudder or tiny prop a number of times on these small craft!

Just curious as to how you intend to suspend this boat from the davits, something i haven't yet done for Whitehurst. Fortunately wartime she only carried one boat.

Best regards fro Costa Rica! Tom

Very lovely wee boat !

bravo - JB

Willie,

Nice work on the 26' MWB!! I noticed that you have added frames on either side of the inside of the hull - this would be consistent with the boat as shown in your photo #1015, but only partially exposed. I can't explain this as the same boats in our navy had the framing covered, at least as far as I can tell by a photo of our 26' MWB on NEW JERSEY, the photo taken during her rebuild in Philadelphia in 1967-68 -
[attachment=1]BB-62 MWB 1967_1.jpg[/attachment]

Here is basically the same type of boat shown in 1943, belonging to CV-10 -
[attachment=0]CV-10 MWB 1943_1.jpg[/attachment]
My guess is that the framing was covered by the 1950s, but that's only a guess. I know STODDARD's 26' MWB was identical to the one on NEW JERSEY and both those boats no longer had exposed hull framing. It could also be that there was no consistent std. for how these boats were refurbished when they were brought out of reserve fleet storage.

I'm only pointing this out in order for you to have some pictorial reference to other similar boats. Since McGOWEN was transferred from the USN in the mid-60s my guess is that her boat may also have had her interior hull framing at least partially covered by that time. I searched thru the few photo I have of STODDARD's one wooden 26' MWB but they don't show the interior of the hull.

Your details, as usual, are over the top - very well done!! :thumbs_up_1:

Hank

[size=150]I don't want to glue the rudder and the screw yet to avoid potential damages with the masking tape when painting. As for now the thing is like this at the moment:
[attachment=3](1024).jpg[/attachment]
[attachment=2](1021).jpg[/attachment]
[attachment=1](1022).jpg[/attachment]
[attachment=0](1023).jpg[/attachment]
I hope you like it, and very best regards from this side of the Atlantic,

Willie.[/size]

[size=150]Hi there Tom, Hank and all.

Hank, my pleasure that after all the help I have always had from you I have been able of being of some help for you too.[/size]
[quote="Fliger747"]For Whitehurst I ended up making the mast in three sections where it penetrated the decks and the hollow sections aligned by the interior piano wire. Part of that solution was dictated by the vagaries of 3D printing as opposed to styrene construction. The pole masts of the WWII DE's were tapered at both ends as guy wires were an important part of the support. This was an advantage for 3D technique in that case.[/quote]
[size=150]Tom, this solution sounds really interesting. I would naver had thought of a mst in sections. It means that there are not big problems, but great solutions.

As I am bogged at the moment with the wiring on my mast, I have devoted some attention to the motor whaleboat. Hank sent me some months ago one of the redundant whaleboats of his 1/144 WWII Revell Fletcher. This model was actually one of the two described in AOTS [b][i]The destroyer THE SULLIVANS[/i][/b], by Al Ross, pag. 117, the one without canopy, that is apparently the one that the sister ship [b][color=#FF0000]Alcalá Galiano[/color][/b] had onboard. This one :
[attachment=9](1011).jpg[/attachment]
Revell's whaler is very basic, really crude, but the general lines are aceptable.
[attachment=8](1012).jpg[/attachment]
Firstable I had to delete the motor canopy and open the deck to make room for the operator, and then to make the motor itself.
This whaleboat motor had a canopy that was not simmetrical, this one:
[attachment=7](1013).JPG[/attachment]
[attachment=6](1014).JPG[/attachment]
Once I had the information the canopy was no problem at all, as I had to use only some Evergreen scraps. For the detailing I could find one single picture, this one:
[attachment=5](1015).JPG[/attachment]
So I had to adapt the details, to make this:
[attachment=4](1016).jpg[/attachment]
The next step was make the rear section with the shaft and the supports for the rudder to form a curved line. I made this with three elements welded together with Revell glue (very thick) and then filed and sanded to the right proportions, and then more sanding to put the adition level to the rest of the keel.
[attachment=3](1017).jpg[/attachment]
After this I had to make a screw, simply a section of rod filed and sanded.
[attachment=2](1018).jpg[/attachment]
Then I added frames, hatches and some other small stuff, to give the thing some more detailing. Very easy.
[attachment=1](1019).jpg[/attachment]
[attachment=0](1020).jpg[/attachment]
[/size]

Willie,

Your mast attachment seems to work well! One item I noticed on my purchased pilot house was that the after extension of the pilot house overhead that goes around the center mast pole is a filled in framework - my purchased pilot house was not correct in this instance so this is one more item to correct on my 3D designed bridge/pilot house as STODDARD had a filled in extension area. Just one of the little additional variances that crop up depending on the particular ship you happen to be modeling. The cable runs that extend along the back side of the mast pole will indeed need to be addressed - I'm glad you mentioned this as it is just [i]another[/i] item to be designed and printed or in your case created and made from various styrene pieces. The picture you sent me of this area of the mast, etc. is priceless -
[attachment=0](15).JPG[/attachment]

This sort of information never appears in any plans, so photos are the next best way to know what needs to be created!

Keep up your fine work!!

Hank

Willie:

Your solution works, one must use ingenuity in these instances. For Whitehurst I ended up making the mast in three sections where it penetrated the decks and the hollow sections aligned by the interior piano wire. Part of that solution was dictated by the vagaries of 3D printing as opposed to styrene construction. The pole masts of the WWII DE's were tapered at both ends as guy wires were an important part of the support. This was an advantage for 3D technique in that case.

Yes, those cable runs on your post war Fletchers are a challenge but as with all the other details add a lot of veracity. The progress continues! Adding the mast makes handling the model and working on other items rather a delicate matter.

Best regards: Tom

[size=150]Hi there [i]Meister[/i] Baumann and all,[/size]

[quote="JIM BAUMANN"]
steady and good quality progress again--
however- I was very much taken and impressed with your fine binoculars!
BRAVO !! :thumbs_up_1: :thumbs_up_1: [/quote]
[size=150]Why, thanks very much for your kind remark. I could not find any picture of them on board our Fletchers, but they were pretty common kit in many other units, so I can assume they were standard on board high seas ships --and in any case they do not harm the model, and were such a pleasure to build.

The attaching of the main mast to the structure was a kind of headache.

This is what had to be done:
[attachment=1](1007).JPG[/attachment]
My problem is that this mast is not placed [i][b]by[/b][/i] the structure, but [i][b]inside[/b][/i] it. All the details but one are very easy to do. The [i]one[/i] is the wiring trunk that goes round the structure up the mast. To replicate this I found two options: (1) to build the mast, set it in place and add the wire with the mast already in place (way too complicated, with the rest of the mast complete, with so many things in the middle and the ship herself lying on her sides to allow the process) or (2) to attach the structure to the mast, instead of the mast to the structure, so that I can handle the mast in every direction to add the wiring. I preferred to choose the second option.

I built the missing piece of deck aft of the bridge house using a piece of 0.75 mm. scrap of styrene:
[attachment=3](1008).jpg[/attachment]
After this I added a section of 1.5 mm. angle at the rear end of the bridge, exactly 0.75 mm. below the deck level, to secure an even level to the addition. I attached then the new structure to the mast, reinforcing the seams with two sections of tubing, as the case luckily was in the Fletchers as well. The 1.5 mm. angle allowed a firm point to keep the usual 5º rake of the mast:
[attachment=2](1009).jpg[/attachment]
Once in place, and even with only a dry fit, the seam is almost invisible, as the case was in the real structure too. The angle is of course completely invisible.
[attachment=0](1010).jpg[/attachment]
With this, I can finish the bridge, as well as completing the mast and attaching it to the bridge without further problem. The solution is a bit weird, but I think it works.

Very best regards and nice going from this side of the oceans,

Willie.[/size]