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Re: 1/200 Pre dreadnought battleship IJN Mikasa after 1905 |
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Thank you both very much and thank you for the comforting words, Pascale. Your little Mikasa turned out really fantastic. I am always fascinated when I see these tiny little masterpieces. And off to the next etched part battle. A lot of small boxes had to be bent and soldered. I also got a smaller bending aid, which makes such delicate things easier to handle. Attachment:
39.JPG [ 480.45 KiB | Viewed 69 times ]
The first error in Pontos’ sentence is also quickly identified. The component of the box that is supposed to be attached to the front superstructure is unfortunately faulty. It would result in a box whose dimensions would not fit into the recess in the wooden decks. I checked the Pontos set what felt like a hundred times but unfortunately without success. That’s why the KA sentence saved my butt. Attachment:
39a.JPG [ 286.51 KiB | Viewed 69 times ]
The slightly simpler lid was underlaid with cut-up etched part gratings and glued to the original component of the model Then brought to its position for inspection. Attachment:
39b.JPG [ 327.4 KiB | Viewed 69 times ]
Little by little, the internal structures and boxes are made and collected in my printed organizers to be aged afterwards. Attachment:
39c.JPG [ 450.24 KiB | Viewed 69 times ]
I made a few improvements to the winches. The large one did have a small cabinet included, I think a distribution box and the drive for the winch, but without any structure on the outside. The little winch would even be complete without everything. However, I found out in another forum that it could well be the case that the small winch did not have an electric drive. So I did a little handwork and gave the big winch hinges and a closer made of thin lead wire. The little one got an upright box that functions as a closet. I liked it better. Attachment:
39f.JPG [ 266.45 KiB | Viewed 69 times ]
Still aging and with lead wire wrapped around the drum. I deliberately wrapped it layer by layer, not quite perfectly, to make it look more authentic. Attachment:
39g.JPG [ 270.13 KiB | Viewed 69 times ]
Accomplished. Attachment:
39h.JPG [ 223.6 KiB | Viewed 69 times ]
And so everything could get on deck. Attachment:
39i.JPG [ 360.73 KiB | Viewed 69 times ]
Attachment:
39j.JPG [ 362.42 KiB | Viewed 69 times ]
Attachment:
39k.JPG [ 367.96 KiB | Viewed 69 times ]
Thank you both very much and thank you for the comforting words, Pascale. Your little Mikasa turned out really fantastic. I am always fascinated when I see these tiny little masterpieces.
And off to the next etched part battle. A lot of small boxes had to be bent and soldered. I also got a smaller bending aid, which makes such delicate things easier to handle.
[attachment=9]39.JPG[/attachment]
The first error in Pontos’ sentence is also quickly identified. The component of the box that is supposed to be attached to the front superstructure is unfortunately faulty. It would result in a box whose dimensions would not fit into the recess in the wooden decks. I checked the Pontos set what felt like a hundred times but unfortunately without success. That’s why the KA sentence saved my butt.
[attachment=8]39a.JPG[/attachment]
The slightly simpler lid was underlaid with cut-up etched part gratings and glued to the original component of the model Then brought to its position for inspection.
[attachment=7]39b.JPG[/attachment]
Little by little, the internal structures and boxes are made and collected in my printed organizers to be aged afterwards.
[attachment=6]39c.JPG[/attachment]
I made a few improvements to the winches. The large one did have a small cabinet included, I think a distribution box and the drive for the winch, but without any structure on the outside. The little winch would even be complete without everything. However, I found out in another forum that it could well be the case that the small winch did not have an electric drive. So I did a little handwork and gave the big winch hinges and a closer made of thin lead wire. The little one got an upright box that functions as a closet. I liked it better.
[attachment=5]39f.JPG[/attachment]
Still aging and with lead wire wrapped around the drum. I deliberately wrapped it layer by layer, not quite perfectly, to make it look more authentic.
[attachment=4]39g.JPG[/attachment]
Accomplished.
[attachment=3]39h.JPG[/attachment]
And so everything could get on deck.
[attachment=2]39i.JPG[/attachment]
[attachment=1]39j.JPG[/attachment]
[attachment=0]39k.JPG[/attachment]
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Posted: Fri Nov 15, 2024 3:09 am |
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Re: 1/200 Pre dreadnought battleship IJN Mikasa after 1905 |
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This is totally beautiful build, love all the details (having built a 1/700 Mikasa myself a while ago here: http://www.modelshipgallery.com/gallery ... /index.htm). Saddened to read about your loss and the hard times you have had to deal with, I hope that the hobby gives you some happiness within, sense of calm. Your Mikasa is looking outstanding and looking forward to see how you will tackle the rig!
This is totally beautiful build, love all the details (having built a 1/700 Mikasa myself a while ago here: http://www.modelshipgallery.com/gallery/bb/ijn/Mikasa-700-pl/index.htm).
Saddened to read about your loss and the hard times you have had to deal with, I hope that the hobby gives you some happiness within, sense of calm. Your Mikasa is looking outstanding and looking forward to see how you will tackle the rig!
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Posted: Tue Nov 05, 2024 2:40 pm |
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Re: 1/200 Pre dreadnought battleship IJN Mikasa after 1905 |
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Nice build, I’m totally enjoying your progress and detail additions!
Nice build, I’m totally enjoying your progress and detail additions!
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Posted: Tue Nov 05, 2024 8:55 am |
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Re: 1/200 Pre dreadnought battleship IJN Mikasa after 1905 |
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Thank you, Marijn. Yes, Micromaster boats are damn good. Let’s move on to the internal structures and fans. The deck is slowly filling up. Attachment:
38.JPG [ 343.03 KiB | Viewed 110 times ]
One thing bothered me. Two box-shaped structures were squeezed between the two main houses. Attachment:
38a.JPG [ 341.76 KiB | Viewed 110 times ]
Seems completely illogical to me and cannot be seen on many models, including those from museums. And that’s why I don’t use it, the corridor remains open. Attachment:
38b.JPG [ 381.71 KiB | Viewed 110 times ]
Especially since a small platform can be seen on both deckhouses. Probably to get to the funnels. That’s why I won’t install the boxes, but will attach a ladder and a railing here. Attachment:
38c.JPG [ 257.36 KiB | Viewed 110 times ]
I further refined the superstructure that accommodates the rescue cutter. Attachment:
38d.JPG [ 325.19 KiB | Viewed 110 times ]
The doors are from the MK1 set, the railings are from the model’s original etched parts set. Attachment:
38e.JPG [ 292.8 KiB | Viewed 110 times ]
And the ladders come from the leftover box. Attachment:
38f.JPG [ 281.84 KiB | Viewed 110 times ]
I’m starting to like it that way Attachment:
38g.JPG [ 283.74 KiB | Viewed 110 times ]
Thank you, Marijn. Yes, Micromaster boats are damn good.
Let’s move on to the internal structures and fans. The deck is slowly filling up.
[attachment=7]38.JPG[/attachment]
One thing bothered me. Two box-shaped structures were squeezed between the two main houses.
[attachment=6]38a.JPG[/attachment]
Seems completely illogical to me and cannot be seen on many models, including those from museums. And that’s why I don’t use it, the corridor remains open.
[attachment=5]38b.JPG[/attachment]
Especially since a small platform can be seen on both deckhouses. Probably to get to the funnels. That’s why I won’t install the boxes, but will attach a ladder and a railing here.
[attachment=4]38c.JPG[/attachment]
I further refined the superstructure that accommodates the rescue cutter.
[attachment=3]38d.JPG[/attachment]
The doors are from the MK1 set, the railings are from the model’s original etched parts set.
[attachment=2]38e.JPG[/attachment]
And the ladders come from the leftover box.
[attachment=1]38f.JPG[/attachment]
I’m starting to like it that way
[attachment=0]38g.JPG[/attachment]
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Posted: Fri Nov 01, 2024 5:29 am |
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Re: 1/200 Pre dreadnought battleship IJN Mikasa after 1905 |
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Great work Jölle! The detail on that cutter is fantastic indeed!
Great work Jölle! :thumbs_up_1: :thumbs_up_1: :thumbs_up_1:
The detail on that cutter is fantastic indeed!
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Posted: Thu Oct 31, 2024 5:01 am |
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Re: 1/200 Pre dreadnought battleship IJN Mikasa after 1905 |
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Then we want to follow our words with actions and continue building. Let’s get to the internal structures. All relatively simple, geometric structures. Neatly sanded and primed. Attachment:
37.JPG [ 305.2 KiB | Viewed 155 times ]
Added a few doors and hatches to make the monotonous surface more interesting. However, I am entering into an area of historically unprovable assumptions. Only the pictures of the museum ship show the inner deck of the Mikasa. But that certainly doesn’t have much to do with the original ship. So I allow myself some artistic freedom here, such as the railing, which is only placed here for customization. It is not documented historically. But it made sense to me, as you could get to the platform at the funnel via the gallery. And a ladder should also be attached to the component, otherwise how would you get up to the front gallery!? And that’s how this came about. Attachment:
37a.JPG [ 290.17 KiB | Viewed 155 times ]
We continue with the first 32-foot rescue cutter. A dream detail. However, there is a small problem with the cradles. They are usually not in the places where they come onto the superstructure. That’s why you can see an unsightly gap between the cradle and the cutter, see arrow. Attachment:
37b.JPG [ 320.61 KiB | Viewed 155 times ]
Nothing that couldn’t be corrected with thin Styrene strips. Attachment:
37c.JPG [ 294.97 KiB | Viewed 155 times ]
Now the boat is lying neatly in its cradles again. Attachment:
37e.JPG [ 264.09 KiB | Viewed 155 times ]
And so the inner deck is slowly taking shape. Attachment:
37f.JPG [ 403.4 KiB | Viewed 155 times ]
Then we want to follow our words with actions and continue building.
Let’s get to the internal structures. All relatively simple, geometric structures. Neatly sanded and primed.
[attachment=5]37.JPG[/attachment]
Added a few doors and hatches to make the monotonous surface more interesting. However, I am entering into an area of historically unprovable assumptions. Only the pictures of the museum ship show the inner deck of the Mikasa. But that certainly doesn’t have much to do with the original ship. So I allow myself some artistic freedom here, such as the railing, which is only placed here for customization. It is not documented historically. But it made sense to me, as you could get to the platform at the funnel via the gallery. And a ladder should also be attached to the component, otherwise how would you get up to the front gallery!? And that’s how this came about.
[attachment=4]37a.JPG[/attachment]
We continue with the first 32-foot rescue cutter. A dream detail. However, there is a small problem with the cradles. They are usually not in the places where they come onto the superstructure. That’s why you can see an unsightly gap between the cradle and the cutter, see arrow.
[attachment=3]37b.JPG[/attachment]
Nothing that couldn’t be corrected with thin Styrene strips.
[attachment=2]37c.JPG[/attachment]
Now the boat is lying neatly in its cradles again.
[attachment=1]37e.JPG[/attachment]
And so the inner deck is slowly taking shape.
[attachment=0]37f.JPG[/attachment]
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Posted: Thu Oct 31, 2024 1:04 am |
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Re: 1/200 Pre dreadnought battleship IJN Mikasa after 1905 |
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Thank you for the kind words Martin. Yes, i think that model building is a little bit of therapy for me.
Thank you for the kind words Martin. Yes, i think that model building is a little bit of therapy for me.
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Posted: Tue Oct 29, 2024 1:48 am |
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Re: 1/200 Pre dreadnought battleship IJN Mikasa after 1905 |
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Jolle,
So sorry for your loss, and for the challenges you've had to face. May you find comfort in the memories you have of her. I hope getting back to the bench helps heal you.
All the best,
Jolle,
So sorry for your loss, and for the challenges you've had to face. May you find comfort in the memories you have of her. I hope getting back to the bench helps heal you.
All the best,
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Posted: Mon Oct 28, 2024 6:13 pm |
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Re: 1/200 Pre dreadnought battleship IJN Mikasa after 1905 |
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Ahoy dear model building community. I hereby report back to the craft table. My break had lasted a little longer than planned, but I had suffered a few personal blows this year. Three of my immediate family members have fallen ill with this terrible plague called cancer, including myself. I think it blows up every statistic. Three of them have now defeated it, only my mother unfortunately died from it three weeks ago. Nevertheless, everyday life is returning to my life and that’s a good thing. Even though I’m still grieving for my mother, I’m going to start doing my hobby again. I think it will comfort and distract me a little. And so my Mikasa appeared on my workbench again. Attachment:
36.JPG [ 534.6 KiB | Viewed 218 times ]
First start with something small to warm up again. The barbettes were still missing splinter protection. Attachment:
36a.JPG [ 435.53 KiB | Viewed 218 times ]
Then I soldered the internal parts of the fans. In 1905, not all of the fan scoops were there anymore and that’s how you saw them. But I don’t know why they were removed. Attachment:
36b.JPG [ 352.21 KiB | Viewed 218 times ]
I researched the orientation of these internal parts as they were attached differently on different models and finally found this picture online where they are parallel to the direction of travel. Attachment:
36c.jpg [ 224.34 KiB | Viewed 218 times ]
And that’s how I installed them on the deck during the first superstructures. Attachment:
36d.JPG [ 321.67 KiB | Viewed 218 times ]
So a small start has been made and I think that I will now regularly report to you about my construction progress. So, read again…
Ahoy dear model building community.
I hereby report back to the craft table.
My break had lasted a little longer than planned, but I had suffered a few personal blows this year. Three of my immediate family members have fallen ill with this terrible plague called cancer, including myself. I think it blows up every statistic.
Three of them have now defeated it, only my mother unfortunately died from it three weeks ago.
Nevertheless, everyday life is returning to my life and that’s a good thing. Even though I’m still grieving for my mother, I’m going to start doing my hobby again. I think it will comfort and distract me a little.
And so my Mikasa appeared on my workbench again.
[attachment=4]36.JPG[/attachment]
First start with something small to warm up again. The barbettes were still missing splinter protection.
[attachment=3]36a.JPG[/attachment]
Then I soldered the internal parts of the fans. In 1905, not all of the fan scoops were there anymore and that’s how you saw them. But I don’t know why they were removed.
[attachment=2]36b.JPG[/attachment]
I researched the orientation of these internal parts as they were attached differently on different models and finally found this picture online where they are parallel to the direction of travel.
[attachment=1]36c.jpg[/attachment]
And that’s how I installed them on the deck during the first superstructures.
[attachment=0]36d.JPG[/attachment]
So a small start has been made and I think that I will now regularly report to you about my construction progress.
So, read again…
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Posted: Mon Oct 28, 2024 7:17 am |
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Re: 1/200 Pre dreadnought battleship IJN Mikasa after 1905 |
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Thank you for the information everyone. Unfortunately, I rarely get the chance to make anything at the moment. My wife is very sick and is currently receiving chemotherapy. I very rarely have a free head to do crafts. I would probably ruin more than move forward. But what I have done is prepare the final stand. Attachment:
34.JPG [ 459.47 KiB | Viewed 338 times ]
This is easier to adjust if there is nothing on deck yet. Attachment:
34b.JPG [ 442.2 KiB | Viewed 338 times ]
I no longer liked the Pontos holder because it holds the ship very high. I prefer it this flat. Attachment:
34c.JPG [ 403.81 KiB | Viewed 338 times ]
Attachment:
34d.JPG [ 404.42 KiB | Viewed 338 times ]
In addition, the dry dock was expanded to include a slightly higher sheet pile wall. Attachment:
35.JPG [ 502.56 KiB | Viewed 338 times ]
The cannons that look out of the casemates above cannot get their barrels later because they are one with the cannon body. Attachment:
35a.JPG [ 497.73 KiB | Viewed 338 times ]
And that’s why they have to be protected separately from my scatterbrainedness. Attachment:
35b.JPG [ 491.11 KiB | Viewed 338 times ]
Thank you for the information everyone. :thumbs_up_1:
Unfortunately, I rarely get the chance to make anything at the moment. My wife is very sick and is currently receiving chemotherapy. I very rarely have a free head to do crafts. I would probably ruin more than move forward. But what I have done is prepare the final stand.
[attachment=6]34.JPG[/attachment]
This is easier to adjust if there is nothing on deck yet.
[attachment=5]34b.JPG[/attachment]
I no longer liked the Pontos holder because it holds the ship very high. I prefer it this flat.
[attachment=4]34c.JPG[/attachment]
[attachment=3]34d.JPG[/attachment]
In addition, the dry dock was expanded to include a slightly higher sheet pile wall.
[attachment=2]35.JPG[/attachment]
The cannons that look out of the casemates above cannot get their barrels later because they are one with the cannon body.
[attachment=1]35a.JPG[/attachment]
And that’s why they have to be protected separately from my scatterbrainedness.
[attachment=0]35b.JPG[/attachment]
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Posted: Wed Jun 26, 2024 7:00 am |
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Re: 1/200 Pre dreadnought battleship IJN Mikasa after 1905 |
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Hello:
The ventilators seem to have changed during her service time. Earlier on, in pictures with the hull was black and the superstructure white, we see lots of what I call 'horn' ventilators (since the top looks like a tuba). In later pictures, where the ship is all gray, they're mostly gone, with only a few 'horn' ventilators aft. I'm guessing that the 1/50 model aboard Mikasa depicts her as-built.
A quick glance at the Hasegawa 1/350 scale instructions looks like they got it mostly right for her 1905 fit. The 1/200 scale kit instructions are more 'interesting'. Steps 13-14 show the ventilators going on at all sorts of odd angles, with no 'horn' hoods. Then they magically appear in step 18 only, and are never seen again.
Mike
Attachments: |
Battleship_mikasa_ret.jpg [ 50.63 KiB | Viewed 388 times ]
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Japanese_battleship_Mikasa.jpg [ 535.91 KiB | Viewed 388 times ]
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Hello:
The ventilators seem to have changed during her service time. Earlier on, in pictures with the hull was black and the superstructure white, we see lots of what I call 'horn' ventilators (since the top looks like a tuba). In later pictures, where the ship is all gray, they're mostly gone, with only a few 'horn' ventilators aft. I'm guessing that the 1/50 model aboard Mikasa depicts her as-built.
A quick glance at the Hasegawa 1/350 scale instructions looks like they got it mostly right for her 1905 fit. The 1/200 scale kit instructions are more 'interesting'. Steps 13-14 show the ventilators going on at all sorts of odd angles, with no 'horn' hoods. Then they magically appear in step 18 only, and are never seen again.
Mike
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Posted: Wed Jun 12, 2024 5:53 pm |
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Re: 1/200 Pre dreadnought battleship IJN Mikasa after 1905 |
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man, just the ventilators - they are all wrong on every kit. how about that!
man, just the ventilators - they are all wrong on every kit. how about that!
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Posted: Wed Jun 12, 2024 3:38 pm |
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Post subject: |
Re: 1/200 Pre dreadnought battleship IJN Mikasa after 1905 |
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Hello:
Aboard Mikasa there is a very nice 1/50 scale model of Mikasa. This model probably better represents her original state than the upper parts of the ship today.
Mike
Attachments: |
p_0963.JPG [ 246.74 KiB | Viewed 393 times ]
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Hello:
Aboard Mikasa there is a very nice 1/50 scale model of Mikasa. This model probably better represents her original state than the upper parts of the ship today.
Mike
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Posted: Wed Jun 12, 2024 2:48 pm |
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Post subject: |
Re: 1/200 Pre dreadnought battleship IJN Mikasa after 1905 |
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Hello:
Here's part of a drawing they had inside the ship, that shows the internal layout. You might be able to better judge what was original from this drawing.
Mike
Attachments: |
p_0983.JPG [ 153.92 KiB | Viewed 408 times ]
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Hello:
Here's part of a drawing they had inside the ship, that shows the internal layout. You might be able to better judge what was original from this drawing.
Mike
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Posted: Wed Jun 12, 2024 7:05 am |
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Post subject: |
Re: 1/200 Pre dreadnought battleship IJN Mikasa after 1905 |
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Hello:
Two more pictures.
Mike
Attachments: |
p_0848.JPG [ 147.96 KiB | Viewed 410 times ]
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p_0883.JPG [ 160.46 KiB | Viewed 410 times ]
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Hello:
Two more pictures.
Mike
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Posted: Wed Jun 12, 2024 6:45 am |
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Post subject: |
Re: 1/200 Pre dreadnought battleship IJN Mikasa after 1905 |
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Post subject: |
Re: 1/200 Pre dreadnought battleship IJN Mikasa after 1905 |
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Many thank you both. I also think that more such old pre-dreadnought ships of this scale should be on the market. For example, the ships of the Deutschland class of the Imperial German Navy were beautiful. Now a question for the users “mconnelley” and “drdoom1337”. Do you have any pictures of the rooms under the ship's chimney? They are probably no longer original and I don't know whether there were actually rooms underneath. I mean this place here. Attachment:
YIAC0426.JPG [ 2.9 MiB | Viewed 462 times ]
Or are these simply rooms that were added later for tourists? Attachment:
YIAC0431.JPG [ 3.03 MiB | Viewed 462 times ]
Many thank you both. I also think that more such old pre-dreadnought ships of this scale should be on the market. For example, the ships of the Deutschland class of the Imperial German Navy were beautiful.
Now a question for the users “mconnelley” and “drdoom1337”.
Do you have any pictures of the rooms under the ship's chimney? They are probably no longer original and I don't know whether there were actually rooms underneath. I mean this place here.
[attachment=1]YIAC0426.JPG[/attachment]
Or are these simply rooms that were added later for tourists?
[attachment=0]YIAC0431.JPG[/attachment]
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Posted: Mon May 27, 2024 6:29 am |
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Re: 1/200 Pre dreadnought battleship IJN Mikasa after 1905 |
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Great weathering! The desaturated lower hull colour works vey well with the upper hull greys. :thumbs_up_1: :thumbs_up_1: :thumbs_up_1:
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Posted: Sat May 25, 2024 3:35 am |
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Re: 1/200 Pre dreadnought battleship IJN Mikasa after 1905 |
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I love the attention to hull weathering, especially lower hull. Well done! Sometimes I lament why we dont have a Duncan version of this because one would imagine it would be a fairly small tool adjustment for the manufacturer and make us british era pre-dreadnought go out and buy one in an instant.
I love the attention to hull weathering, especially lower hull. Well done! Sometimes I lament why we dont have a Duncan version of this because one would imagine it would be a fairly small tool adjustment for the manufacturer and make us british era pre-dreadnought go out and buy one in an instant. :wave_1:
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Posted: Fri May 24, 2024 1:46 pm |
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Post subject: |
Re: 1/200 Pre dreadnought battleship IJN Mikasa after 1905 |
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Ahoy dear model building friends and thank you Daniel K. At the moment I don’t find much time for model building, but nevertheless it’s slowly progressing. I have finished aging the hull for now and turned a new ship into an old veteran. Attachment:
33.JPG [ 485.62 KiB | Viewed 555 times ]
I particularly aged the anchor hawse and the area below the anchor berths, as a lot of dirt is likely to accumulate here. Attachment:
33a.JPG [ 457.61 KiB | Viewed 555 times ]
Attachment:
33b.JPG [ 468.46 KiB | Viewed 555 times ]
And port side. Attachment:
33c.JPG [ 483.97 KiB | Viewed 555 times ]
The chipping is also strongest here, as the anchors are likely to leave clear marks. Attachment:
33d.JPG [ 398.2 KiB | Viewed 555 times ]
Attachment:
33e.JPG [ 469.64 KiB | Viewed 555 times ]
Amidships I aged more subtly. Attachment:
33f.JPG [ 468.49 KiB | Viewed 555 times ]
And a little more at the rear. Attachment:
33g.JPG [ 456.55 KiB | Viewed 555 times ]
The painting of the fuselage only continues when the missing parts are attached to the outside, i.e. pretty much at the end. Attachment:
33h.JPG [ 478.35 KiB | Viewed 555 times ]
The wooden deck was also glazed and applied. Attachment:
33i.JPG [ 523.09 KiB | Viewed 555 times ]
Now I can start equipping the deck, which I’m looking forward to.
Ahoy dear model building friends and thank you Daniel K. At the moment I don’t find much time for model building, but nevertheless it’s slowly progressing. I have finished aging the hull for now and turned a new ship into an old veteran.
[attachment=9]33.JPG[/attachment]
I particularly aged the anchor hawse and the area below the anchor berths, as a lot of dirt is likely to accumulate here.
[attachment=8]33a.JPG[/attachment]
[attachment=7]33b.JPG[/attachment]
And port side.
[attachment=6]33c.JPG[/attachment]
The chipping is also strongest here, as the anchors are likely to leave clear marks.
[attachment=5]33d.JPG[/attachment]
[attachment=4]33e.JPG[/attachment]
Amidships I aged more subtly.
[attachment=3]33f.JPG[/attachment]
And a little more at the rear.
[attachment=2]33g.JPG[/attachment]
The painting of the fuselage only continues when the missing parts are attached to the outside, i.e. pretty much at the end.
[attachment=1]33h.JPG[/attachment]
The wooden deck was also glazed and applied.
[attachment=0]33i.JPG[/attachment]
Now I can start equipping the deck, which I’m looking forward to.
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Posted: Thu May 23, 2024 3:48 am |
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