The Ship Model Forum • Post a reply

Board index » ModelWarships.com general forum » Picture Post » Works in Progress

All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]

To HMS Victory and beyond

Moderators: BB62vet, MartinJQuinn, JIM BAUMANN, Jon, Dan K

Post a reply

Username:

Subject:

Message body:
Enter your message here, it may contain no more than 60000 characters.

Smilies

View more smilies

Font size:

	Font colour
[quote="dafi"]Then came a new adventure, the shrouds. Somehow, all the interesting things I wanted to try always came to the point where the shrouds would have been installed. So I couldn't avoid it any longer, so I set off on a new adventure. I ordered the cables for the shrouds and stays from http://www.modellbau-takelgarn.de. They had the complete range in tenths of a millimeter increments, and the standing rigging is a deep brown and not the usual bluish deep black. The brown allowed me to achieve the color I wanted. First I made the ropes a whole lot darker with heavily diluted black artist's ink. What a mess that was. The lawn in the garden still looks sunburnt, but the new appearance is now a deep deep brown compared to the original. ... [img]https://www.mediaharmonists.de/bilder/Sammler40/Victory-black-ink_0829.jpg[/img] To dress the eyes around the masthead and the first shroud, I went back to the glue fake method that I had already used for the bopstays. To do this, I measured the area to be dressed and always made a marker knot at the borders with a makeshift yarn as a glue border. [img]https://www.mediaharmonists.de/bilder/Sammler40/Victory-shrouds-240908_9486.jpg[/img] Then I applied the fake dressing. This involved the eyes below the crosstrees on a length corresponding to the masthead´s height and the foremost shroud along the entire length. [img]https://www.mediaharmonists.de/bilder/Sammler40/Victory-shrouds-240908_9490.jpg[/img] The procedure was always the same: apply a generous layer of white glue with a small wooden stick then spread the glue well with your fingers using the three-finger method and smooth with spit, allow to dry, then repeat and finally seal with black paint. The shrouds were now ready for further assembly. Next, I determined the circumference of the masthead ... [img]https://www.mediaharmonists.de/bilder/Sammler40/Victory-shrouds-240908_9474.jpg[/img] ... and made a template. A 10 mm round stick was wrapped with paper until the required 11 mm of the test loop was obtained. The loop of the shroud was fixed with a pair of clamping tweezers ... [img]https://www.mediaharmonists.de/bilder/Sammler40/Victory-shrouds-240908_9475.jpg[/img] ... tied with 10 knots - 5 at the top and 5 at the bottom ... [img]https://www.mediaharmonists.de/bilder/Sammler40/Victory-shrouds-240908_9478.jpg[/img] ... and the package neatly secured with a seizing. [img]https://www.mediaharmonists.de/bilder/Sammler40/Victory-shrouds-240908_9477.jpg[/img] The two pendants were given their thimbles. [img]https://www.mediaharmonists.de/bilder/Sammler40/Victory-shrouds-240908_9481.jpg[/img] [img]https://www.mediaharmonists.de/bilder/Sammler40/Victory-shrouds-240908_9482.jpg[/img] As there is an odd number of shrouds, the rearmost one was joined to the opposite side in a horseshoe splice. And then there was the first trial assembly. Pendant starboard, pendant port, first pair of shrouds sb, first pair of shrouds bb and so on. This allowed me to check whether the aft shrouds would fit under the aft cross tree - they didn't at first. [img]https://www.mediaharmonists.de/bilder/Sammler40/Victory-shrouds-240908_9491.jpg[/img] So I raised the pairs of shrouds again and successively turned all the pairs further forward. And then it did fit. [img]https://www.mediaharmonists.de/bilder/Sammler40/Victory-shrouds-240908_9495.jpg[/img] [img]https://www.mediaharmonists.de/bilder/Sammler40/Victory-shrouds-240908_9498.jpg[/img] When the stays came to lie on top, everything was tightened up even more and now keeps the rear cross tree well clear. [img]https://www.mediaharmonists.de/bilder/Sammler40/Victory-shrouds-240908_9501.jpg[/img] [img]https://www.mediaharmonists.de/bilder/Sammler40/Victory-shrouds-240908_9503.jpg[/img] XXXDAn PS: Here you can see again how model builder's impatience would take revenge if you had already glued the mast cap or even the fighting top ...[/quote]

Options:

BBCode is ON

[img] is ON

[flash] is OFF

[url] is ON

Smilies are ON

	Disable BBCode
	Disable smilies
	Do not automatically parse URLs

Question

type everything in between the quote marks: "N0$pam" Note the Zero:
This question is a means of preventing automated form submissions by spambots.

Topic review - To HMS Victory and beyond

Author

Message

marijn van gils

Post subject:

Re: To HMS Victory and beyond

That looks like a fun trip Daniel! :thumbs_up_1:

Posted: Tue Oct 29, 2024 10:01 am

109

Post subject:

Re: To HMS Victory and beyond

Thanks for the report :thumbs_up_1:

Posted: Fri Oct 25, 2024 6:53 am

dafi

Post subject:

Re: To HMS Victory and beyond

It was that time again. My little one had wanderlust again and wanted to get out.

Evian on Lake Geneva was the destination this time, a big meeting of the French. And as Madame doesn't like travelling, I was allowed to come along too. And a few other bits and pieces.

The SMS Trinkstein was a big hit! The number of times Joachim had to tell the story is mind boggling, as the dafi was never there, he was at all times everywhere and gossiping with everyone. Thanks Joachim for the help!

Captain Hornblower's starting scene was also well received, Capitaine sans peur as he is called in French, the captain without fear

Various printed parts ...

... working stuff ...

... books ...

... and of course savoury slices - after all, the French are gourmets :-)

And the little one was also very excited ...

...we had a photo session with her straight away.

Best regards, DAniel

Posted: Fri Oct 25, 2024 4:20 am

Dan K

Post subject:

Re: To HMS Victory and beyond

Utterly superb work and details. Amazing.

Posted: Thu Oct 17, 2024 7:04 am

dafi

Post subject:

Re: To HMS Victory and beyond

For the next level, I prepared the top mast shrouds. Even if Steel doesn't mention it explicitly, in most modern sources the foremost shroud is also dressed here, so that's what I decided to do. The sisterblock is also integrated between the two forward shrouds.

But first come the hangers / burton tackles ...

... then the sister blocks ...

... and everything in place.

Here you can see again the difference between the dressed and undressed shrouds. Unfortunately, in contrast to my self-made ropes, the purchased ropes do fluff a little, but this is not visible to the naked eye.

To continue working, I tensioned the shrouds down with clamps and gravity.

And dark ropes in front of a dark background are somewhat annoying even with good lighting, so I made a white cardboard template for this spot.

To continue working, I tensioned the shrouds down again with clamps and gravity.

And dark ropes in front of a dark background are a bit annoying even with good lighting, so I made a white cardboard template for this spot.

Then the dead eyes were bound in as the lower ones. To compensate for the lack of a third hand, I then tied the shroud to be worked on with a thread to the yardarm, see green arrows, helps immensely.

XXXDAn

Posted: Wed Oct 16, 2024 8:28 am

dafi

Post subject:

Re: To HMS Victory and beyond

After the fighting top had found its place, it was finally time to fit the futtock shrouds.

The work preparation was the blackening of the etched parts and the painting of the dead eyes. Then the irons of the dead eyes were bent open, the dead eyes inserted and everything squeezed shut and secured with some glue.

The upper hooks were then tied into the shrouds. This shroud was fully dressed, again using my technique with white glue as for my scale.

First test of the dead eyes in the holes of the fighting top and the shrouds hooked in.

Now you can see where the holes in the fighting top need to be reworked so that the irons don't sit at an angle. The lower shrouds have also been marked with a thread to hold the futtock shrouds.

Next, the dressing of the lower shrouds was completed and brought to the same height.

Finally the futtock shrouds could be hooked in, wrapped once around the futtock stave and tied to the shroud.

After trimming, this is what came out :-)

XXXDAn

Posted: Tue Oct 15, 2024 5:27 am

dafi

Post subject:

Re: To HMS Victory and beyond

Next, I took care of the cleats for the hangers of the jeer blocks. In Portsmouth they are in the form of a bracket. All other literature that does not base on the restored ship show a shoulder piece.
So the brackets from my printed parts go into the bin. Its up to the shoulder

I took the opportunity to determine the length of the hangers, as I don't know how they will be accessible later.

But more on the jeers later.

And then it's finally its turn, the top mast.

Placed in front of the mast, it is threaded through the trestle trees of the fighting top and pulled upwards using 2 pulleys in the foot.

Here are some older pictures. The top gallant mast was also raised in this way, it is basically a very simple telescopic lift.

XXXDAn

Posted: Mon Oct 14, 2024 8:06 am

dafi

Post subject:

Re: To HMS Victory and beyond

And the next stage was already on the agenda, I had just glued the fightig top onto the trestle trees when I remembered all the blocks that were needed underneath ...

... so I quickly tore the fightig top off and removed the glue residue. Well, that's the way it always goes with me.

At least 4 small single blocks for the leech line and two double blocks for the buntlines have to go under there. But as I can't say for sure that that's all there is - as always, there are very many different sources - I have also fitted the other suspension points with blocks. But cutting them off is always easier than retrofitting them once all other things are installed.

Based on the tests I had already presented some time ago, the first block still took just as long as the other eleven. But I had to develop a good strategy for them.

First, I pressed the block onto a needle as usual and stropped it in. I secured the strop well with glue and only cut off the short end of the strop, but not the seizing ends.

Then tie the remaining long leg with the seizing as a loop. The seizing has a double knot, but is not glued so that the loop can move.

A thin thread with slip-through protection is passed through the hole from above ...

... and threads the loop of the block on the underside and ...

... pulls the loop onto the top and secure it temporarily with a wire hook.

Then pull the long leg on the underside to bring the block to the correct length.

Then carefully pull out the wire on the upper side, insert the toggle and tighten it again from below.

Now a drop of glue on the through hole and knot and neaten everything up. Done.

A little hint in between: And always take documentary photos of the rope thicknesses ;-)

And the result looks like this.

And the exciting moment, the fightig top can finally really be glued in :-)

And then finally: another milestone reached! Even my little Midshipman is happy.

XXXDAn

Posted: Thu Oct 10, 2024 4:25 am

SG1

Post subject:

Re: To HMS Victory and beyond

This is AMAZING :thumbs_up_1:

Posted: Thu Oct 10, 2024 12:59 am

dafi

Post subject:

Re: To HMS Victory and beyond

Once the shrouds are tightened, the futtock staves could be fixed for good. Fortunately, I had only tacked them on so far, as the position was visibly out of line after the shrouds had been tensioned.

The last status was this:

To align the futtock staves, I placed crosspieces on the protrusions of the two staves and was thus able to adjust them well.

Then the futtock staves and the shrouds were knotted together and the overhang cut off.

It is amazing how much these futtock staves contribute to the stability of the shrouds, even in a model.

XXXDAn

Posted: Wed Oct 09, 2024 10:00 am

dafi

Post subject:

Re: To HMS Victory and beyond

Thank you, but still:

Objection your honor! Not Ship-Shape! Not Bristol Fashion!

Somehow I remembered that the free ends of the deadeye lanyards were tied up that high. I searched for a while to see what reference I had for the high-tie - but I couldn't find anything that had got me there. The old section model didn't look like that either. That's why I got protest elsewhere, which I had nothing to counter except for: Demolition!

Fortunately, I only use very little glue thanks to my fine glue nozzles :-)

It was still a fiddle to get the stuff out of the rope. But now it actually looks much neater.

XXXDAn

Posted: Thu Oct 03, 2024 7:36 am

SG1

Post subject:

Re: To HMS Victory and beyond

Outstanding work dafi!

Posted: Mon Sep 30, 2024 4:27 pm

dafi

Post subject:

Re: To HMS Victory and beyond

Thank you Marijn!

This was the last stand, the deadeyes tied into the shroud and the lanyards threaded in but still loose.

The next step was to pull the lanyards through over the deadeye and under the shroud eye. I always use a threader from my sewing supplies, it's simply the best help for this.

Then, when wrapping the lanyard around the shroud, pass it under the last row of yarn from the deadeye, so that it clamps itself, then make 5 more turns and tie the end to the shroud.

Yay, another milestone victory!

As my shrouds are slightly elastic, I also used this to adjust the upper deadeyes a little when tensioning the lanyards. I don't like it completely leveled anyway, as you can also see in the originals and in contemporary models that the different elasticity of the manually made ropes leads to different lengths of the shrouds when tensioning, and thus to slightly varying heights of the deadeyes.

XXXDAn

Posted: Mon Sep 30, 2024 7:06 am

marijn van gils

Post subject:

Re: To HMS Victory and beyond

Fantastic! :thumbs_up_1:

Of course I won't be able to follow this level of detail in 1/300 (working on my first shrouds/ratlines at this moment! :smallsmile:

) , but it is very educational and inspirational to see this!

Posted: Mon Sep 30, 2024 3:32 am

dafi

Post subject:

Re: To HMS Victory and beyond

Thank you Bruce and Marijn!

Slowly and carefully we went on, and then the time had come ...

... both sides of the deadeyes were integrated into the shrouds and tidied up. Final alignment of the deadeyes angle comes when I tighten the lanyards.

The angle is also almost right. I mean the mast, of course, the fighting top is hanging so crooked on purpose ;-)

I now also have a good system for tying in the deadeyes.

Materials, 1 set of upper deadeyes starboard and port, a cable 0.9 mm, lanyards with half of it 0.45 mm and the seizings with 0.15 mm.

First assign all shrouds to the lower deadeyes. Secure with an auxiliary thread.

It will then look like what you have already seen.

For the sake of clarity, we will now continue with a single shroud.

The deadeyes are easy to hold with pointed tweezers, the ends should ideally protrude at the back.

A cardboard template on the chain board helps to maintain the correct height. One hand holds the shroud in the correct line to the lower target deadeye, a micro portion of superglue is placed at 3 o'clock in the groove of the deadeye, and by placing the protruding tips of the tweezers on the top edge of the template, the deadeye is pressed against the shroud at the correct angle of rotation.

Then, if necessary, apply a micro portion of superglue at 9 o'clock and position the free end behind the shroud.

Then close the eye with 2 knots. A little space must be left between the deadeye and the knot, as in a later phase 3-4 more knots must be added to the eye and the thicker lanyard must also be passed through there. I don't glue the two knots at this stage because I can still correct the eye if necessary.

Then the lower seizing of the 3 ones of the free end is secured and aligned. Depending on the era and nation, the shroud and free end either run in mirror image or asymmetrically with the shroud directed towards the center of the deadeye and the free end running out tangentially and then tied on at the top.

And then the lanyard can already be integrated and provisionally fixed above.

Only when all the shrouds have been fitted in this way will the remaining turns on the eye and the 3 upper seizings be completed, see above.

The final step will be to bring the lanyard forward over the deadeye under the knpt and tie it on above.

It actually went quite quickly, was looking even enough and, above all, the potential for frustration was manageable.

XXXDAn

Posted: Mon Sep 23, 2024 9:35 am

marijn van gils

Post subject:

Re: To HMS Victory and beyond

Beautiful! :thumbs_up_1:

Posted: Mon Sep 23, 2024 5:07 am

bwross11

Post subject:

Re: To HMS Victory and beyond

Dafi,
I have to tell you that your work is beyond words! I marvel at the level of detail you bring to the project and the historical reference you're providing.

Well done Sir!

Posted: Sat Sep 21, 2024 2:06 pm

dafi

Post subject:

Re: To HMS Victory and beyond

Here you can clearly see the difference between the wooden dead eyes from the early stages of my model and the new printed ones at the top of the shroud.

With the wooden dead eyes, I had to close the unsymmetrical holes and re-drill them. It was a lot of work. In addition, the lower dead eyes have an incorrect all-round groove: As with the upper dead eyes, this is wide to accommodate the heavy shroud. For the lower dead eyes, however, the groove should be significantly narrower, i.e. only a slot, which only had to accommodate the thinner iron fitting.

The appearance is also more even.

In addition, the groove is not circumferential, but interrupted in the area of the connection to the iron or shroud. This also prevents the juffer from rotating. And even a careless model builder like me gets a subtle hint from the resulting bulge in the shroud if he is about to bind the dead eye the wrong way round ...

In the picture you can see the comparison of the lower dead eye on the left with the narrow groove and on the right the upper one with the wide groove.

XXXDAn

Posted: Sat Sep 21, 2024 3:42 am

dafi

Post subject:

Re: To HMS Victory and beyond

The next step was dead on onto the dead eyes :-)

Before I started, I lifted the fighting top and checked that all the shrouds were in the right order. And indeed, there were two pairs on the starboard side in the area of the landlubbers hole that were lying crosswise.

Then the shrouds below were assigned to their dead eyes. God bless the inventor of the hair clips!

There is almost nothing better for pre-tightening some rigging than wooden clothespins in combination with gravity.

Then came a rough binding on both ship´s sides to get an even pull on both directions. As I had reinforced the mast well with a wooden rod at the time, there was no movement in any direction. It still looks wild, but it does the job.

To stabilize the rigging further further, I inserted the buttock stave. This stave is served over its entire length, in the original its a rope slightly thinner than the shroud, for the modeI I chose a core of 0.5 mm brass wire for stability reasons.

The official calculation is slightly different, but by analogy the following measure gives the same figures: Distance upper edge of cross tree to lower edge of mast cap ...

... is the same as the upper edge of the cross tree to the buttock stave.

Once the buttock stave was in place the "white glue serving" was also brought to the correct length.

Afterwards, I will continue the serving evenly below the sausage by a few millimetres and also use black paint to ensure a uniform appearance. At the moment only the outer shrouds are attached so that the other shrouds still have place to work. Nevertheless, this already stiffens the whole construction a lot.

This also allowed me to start tidying up the dead eyes. Four seizings for the dead eye in the shroud, and crossing of the lanyard on the back of the dead eye and tied to the side after a few windings.

And then it's on to the happy dead eye tying :-)

XXXDAn

Posted: Fri Sep 20, 2024 9:33 am

dafi

Post subject:

Re: To HMS Victory and beyond

Thank you very much Jim, Yuth and Marijn, appreciated very much!

Means a lot to me.

All the best, DAniel

Posted: Fri Sep 20, 2024 6:08 am

Board index » ModelWarships.com general forum » Picture Post » Works in Progress

All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]

Jump to: