The Ship Model Forum

Well after a few months working on this, I still have lost my mind about what to do in the European theater. These events were all wiped off thanks to the evacuation of the British in 1940:
-All battles by the British in the Pacific
-Hunt for the Bismarck
-Med./North Africa campaigns

A good number of ships would be spared the destruction they would face if they remained at their original station.

Just for the record, [i]Hogan's Heroes[/i] was, and still is, an enjoyable sitcom for me to watch. Although silly, it did reveal the whole espionage network the Allies had in Europe to some extent.

I would estimate between 8,000-10,500 escaping, with at least 1,000 casualties from those who tried to escape. A great deal could also be done had they been transported in large numbers. Images of barbaric battles against the Germans appear in my mind, walking through the French countryside, with only about 20 men to guard 150-200, with only a vehicle or 2 as escort. Of course they would have a machine gun or two, with pistols or rifles, but well-placed hits with large enough numbers, the Allied soldiers could overcome their German captors. Hiding around in small groups with the German weapons, fighting back to the coast or Switzerland. Seems like a reasonable story. I doubt the Germans would put no more than 20,000 men on escort duty, with no more than 50 tanks. Other vehicles would be vulnerable to any other attack. Also, I could easily imagine the British providing limited air cover for them, with a few ships moving in and out to rescue those who do make it to the beaches. Also, the Germans would probably not care so much for POWs who would be a nuisance to take care of, when they still had thousands more to tend to. Hitler would probably not even bother to look at the reports, thinking that they were soldiers doing their job.

On the Auxiluary Units, from what I understand, they were far from a joke, and although put together in a hurry the men selected received quite intensive training. They operated in small cells, or in some cases as individuals, each man had a hidden underground bunker in local woodland, with explosives, weapons and two weeks supply of food & water. On the front line approaching their area, they would go to ground, and as soon as the front line passed over them start operating.

Part of their training included trying to get into local stately homes (mansions etc) as it was expected these would be commandeered by Generals, the occupying adminsitration etc, to carry out assasinations.

The two weeks supply of rations was because that was their life expectancy behind German lines.

It does sound like the makings of a bad TV series, but it was a serious response in what were desperate times.

I think the idea of POW's taken at Dunkirk escaping & commiting sabotage is a good one. the practical problem of over 250,000 prisoners to deal with taken in such a short time would have been a nightmare for the German Army and I could see quite a few doing a runner.

Also I can see the usual rule in the British Armed Forces that Commissioned Officers were under an obligation to try & escape, but other ranks were not being dropped and a General order being put out to cause as much mayhem as possible to hinder the invasion.

From the point of view of Landing sites, The East Anglian coast, North of the River Thames & London Suffolk in particular probably offers the best beaches & terrain for getting in land. South of the River, Kent & Sussex is mostly cliffs & marshes, with the Downs giving good defensive terrian. The best section of the Kent Coast, from Deal, North round Pegwell bay has the Goodwin sands right offshore from it, a large sandbank dry at low tide, making any landing on a falling or low tide treacherous.

A few more thoughts

Si

[quote="navydavesof"][quote="Sr. Gopher"]All of the ships are conventionally powered, as in my alt history, the Manhattan Project was dropped after a large fleet was created...[/quote]that's....interesting.[/quote]

Well, the JCS decides to end it, because if the secrets of the project were to get out, they could lose an entire fleet with just one bomb, the Army could lose an entire invasion force, and the with these in full production, they could potentially lose the entire country to 2 carriers' airwing.

[quote="navydavesof"][quote="Sr. Gopher"]The large Nimitz and Ford classes have 6-7 propellers each.[/quote]Did you do it because you are assuming the nuclear ships needed something special that only a nuclear reactor produces? All they need is a propulsion plant to produce the steam needed to make speed. Why not just put the same boilers the [i]Montanas [/i]were going to have in all of your super-carriers? The [i]Montanas[/i] were going to have 320,000shp pushing through 4 propellers to make 33knots, and that's exactly what the Nimitzs require for their speed.[/quote]

Then that will be the case!

[quote="Sr. Gopher"]All of the ships are conventionally powered, as in my alt history, the Manhattan Project was dropped after a large fleet was created...[/quote]that's....interesting.

[quote="Sr. Gopher"]The large Nimitz and Ford classes have 6-7 propellers each.[/quote]Did you do it because you are assuming the nuclear ships needed something special that only a nuclear reactor produces? All they need is a propulsion plant to produce the steam needed to make speed. Why not just put the same boilers the [i]Montanas [/i]were going to have in all of your super-carriers? The [i]Montanas[/i] were going to have 320,000shp pushing through 4 propellers to make 33knots, and that's exactly what the Nimitzs require for their speed.

All of the ships are conventionally powered, as in my alt history, the Manhattan Project was dropped after a large fleet was created, and the designers burnde all of the plans. The US didn't want their massive fleet to all of a sudden become obsolete, and perhaps, be sent to the bottom of the ocean should the enemy get the plans of the bomb. The large Nimitz and Ford classes have 6-7 propellers each. They will be launching large aircraft on a normal basis, including the B-25 and A-26. They would even launch C-47s towing gliders with the assistance of rocket boosters. Also, they would launch up to 170 F8F Bearcats, had the others been removed. A normal 1947 complement of aircraft would be 40 A-26 Invaders, 40 F7F Tigercats, 20 P-51 Mustangs, 20 A-26 Apaches, and 30 F8F Bearcats. The Bearcats would be used as fleet defense fighters (kamikazes), the Mustangs would escort the A-26s, the Tigercats would be used as an attack fighter, and the Apaches as small single seat dive bombers.

[quote="Sr. Gopher"]By the time of Pearl Harbor, the USN will have 6 Essex, 6 Midways, 5 Forrestals, 2 Nimitz (2 more on the way), and 1 Ford (3 more on the way). [/quote]Mr. Gopher, please pardon me if you have answered this already, because I have not read all of your inputs yet, but there are some very large issues with your plan.

How do you justify the technological progression that actually took place over 60 years to be accomplished in only maybe 20-30 years worth of the early half of the 20th century?

Would the Nimitzs be nuclear powered or conventionally? No amount of technological acceleration would have given you nuclear power plants like what even Enterprise has much less what Ford has.

Even if you have these enormous carriers, what are you flying off of them? The only reason current carriers are as big as they are is because they need to be to take enough of our super high performance jets into a theater to make the jets and ships cost effective. Otherwise they would have gotten no larger than the Midways.

Something you may want to explore, if you want to use a lot of modern equipment like it sounds like you do, is perhaps write a modern world war with the same players as WWII. That way you don't have to re-write not just history just technological progression as well.

Just a thought.

Those Auixilary units, they kind of remind me of that old show: "Hogan's Heroes"! That was pretty funny, though unrealistic. Maybe some of the captured at Dunkirk escape the prison camps, and are sabotaging the German invasion fleet. Also, about the invasion location: I am thinking that the Germans would head for a beach, seeing that they were developing some conventional landing craft: http://www.german-navy.de/kriegsmarine/ships/landingcrafts/index.html The ports would probably actually be defended, unlike those false guns along the coasts.

Local militias, you have hit the nail on the head.

In Britain, we did have a "militia" at first called the LDV (Local Defence Volunteers), then the Home Guard. Consisting mostly of those either too Old or too young for call up into the regualar forces, and those in "reserved occupations" (Jobs needed for the war effort, and therefore not elligable for regular military service). The LDV was formed in May 1940 after the invasion of France & it begin with had little or nothing in the way of uniforms or equipment. The first uniform issued was an armband. Ironically, at the time they were most likely to be needed, they were low down the priority list for equipment & uniforms because of re-equiping the troops brought back form Dunkirk. There were also a highly secret band, known as "Auxiliary Units" who were to operate, in case of an invasion, behind German lines commiting acts of sabotage, and forming the basis of a Resitance movement.

I would think had operation Dynamo failed and we had lost most of the Army, the formation and equiping of Home Guard units would have received a much higher priority, as the home based divisions of the regular army were already fully equiped.

Here is a thought, in any invasion of the UK would the German forces have gone straight for a port, like Dover or Ramsgate, or beach landing. just thinking, as what defences we had were clustered around the ports, and apart from The Romney Marshes, (And knowing that area quite well, it is not ideal offensive country, espeically for the early war German tanks with narrow tracks) a lot of the south east corner of England is Cliffs, and the Invasion Barges were mostly around the Pas de Calais and the Dutch & Belgian Ports.

The Allies, until they tried it out at Dieppe thought it might be possible to centre the invasion around a major port.

If you are talking about German troops getting ashore in numbers, and paratroops, read up on the Home Guard, and the "Auxiliary Units" (They in particular make an interesting tale, and could be written into any Invasion scenario)

Also of course you had the Volksturm in operating in Germany after the Rhine crossing, research into that could give an idea of effectiveness of such units.

Si

Well then, I guess if the civilians are being attacked either way, a militia is in order for the boys and men. Only if the Germans do make it to their town, the British will take up arms. Or hide in a bomb shelter, depending on the attack.

The problem is in the reality of war, things like the Geneva convention go out of the window. If I remember correctly it is hot & strong against thing like the indescriminate area bombing of cities, but both allied & axis air forces did it. During the Invasion of France there are recorded cases of Luftwaffe fighters & ground attack aircraft deliberately straffing & bombing civilian refugees.

The deliberate & cynical attack of enemy civilians in an invasion situation, as in France in 1940 is done to cause panic amongst the civilian population, they then try and escape the front line areas, this clogs the roads in the area behind the frontline, which slows down the bringing up of supplies & reserves, thus hampering the ability of the defending forces to put up an effective fight. It was one thing in 1944 that hampered the allies, as they were trying to liberate the civilian population, and therefore had to try and minimise civilian casualities. Look at the bombing Caen during operation charnwood in late june 1944, the allies knew the occupying forces had not allowed the civillian population to leave, yet major portions of the city were flattened.

The V1 & V2 weapons were not accurate enough to be useda target smaller than a city, and were therefore designed and used for the sole purpose of destroying civilian infrastructre and killing civilains.

There has been much discussio n as to why V1s were not launched against the Normandy beachhead & the mulberry harbours, the truth is they were not accurate enough, and there was a fair chance a sizable percentage of those launched would have landed on the german side of the lines.

Both sides during WW2 carried out deliberate attacks against civilian populations in order to try and break the enemy's morale. there is no evidence that in any case that it was "succesful", except maybe the Hiroshima & Nagasaki bombs.

Those facing charges at war crimes trials always come from the defeated side. from the viewpont of the victors, the ends justify the means.

Si

You would have thought that the Geneva Convention had layed down strict rule regarding the attack of civilians. BUt even in the [i]countryside[/i] the Germans couldn't avoid hitting civilians?

I don't think red crosses & white flags would work.

The Luftwaffe bombed chunks of London, Coventry, Plymouth etc flat, and they were no more concerned about the civilian population that when the RAF bombed great chunks for Berlin, Hamburg, Cologne, Nurenburg etc flat.

As an aside, how many french civilian's were killed by the Bombardments on the Normandy beach head area, I have never seen figures, or much mention of it, even when I have been exploring that part of the world, but as a number of small towns & villages were right on the invasion beaches it must have been quite a few.

WW2 was total war, Both the the RAF and USAAF 8th Air Force bombed targets in occupied France, It is inevitable such raids will have caused casualties amongst the civilian population.

Whislt I admire your concern for the Civilain population, In real terms to the Military Command / Government fighting for survival the Civilian population tends to regarded as at best a nuiscience that gets in the way & consumes resources.

Had the Invasion taken place, and Britain was fighting for survival, whilst there may have been some organised movement away from the front line areas, beyond that the civilian population would be left to fend for itself, virtually all transport, rail & road would have been need to move troops and supplies about, and would not been available civilian use. It is highly likely you would have seen roads clogged with refugees, mostly on foot, as happened on mainland Europe trying tp outrun the fighting, and probably being straffed as they were on mainland Europe.

Si

[quote="Rob"][quote="Sr. Gopher"]Rob, did those ships have guns onboard? Even if they were for self-defense? Or armed Escorts?

.[/quote]

Very frequently not.

Rob[/quote]

Then, in that case, the evac is out. The civilians are just sent to the countryside, with white flags and a red cross on the top of the houses. If that doesn't work, I guess that the Germans will have to pay even heavier war fines. Sorry about the issue Rob.

[quote="Sr. Gopher"]Rob, did those ships have guns onboard? Even if they were for self-defense? Or armed Escorts?

.[/quote]

Very frequently not.

Rob

Rob, did those ships have guns onboard? Even if they were for self-defense? Or armed Escorts?

New scernario for Europe. Still involves evac of civilians though. The mark is still Dunkirk. The losing team: The Allies. The British are still unable to get the better part of the men off the beaches. The British are cornered on their island, with only a fraction of the military they had a week ago. Hitler, knowing of the very possible danger this would bring, chooses to wait until Britain has fallen to attack Russia. Churchill sends out an SOS, calling every British ship, man, and as many supplies to haul themselves to Britain. Form North Africa, the Commonwealth armies are loading up onto ships, including the Free French forces that include the fleet anchored in Morocco. Convoys coming from the East will come from under The Cape of Good Hope are to dock at Liberia, then to Gibraltar and meet up with the forces coming from North Africa. A dummy convoy left from England in earl 1941. It comprised of some 67 empty, obsolete merchant ships. The crews are of volunteers, and are minimal for each ship. The only escorts for this convoy are the old battleships: HMS Ramillies, HMS Revenge, HMS Royal Sovereign, HMS Resolution, and HMS Warspite. They were to proceed to Boston, where they would undergo a refit. Every sea-capable ship in England was sent to clear a path from Gibraltar to safety in England, outside the range of the Luftwaffe. The convoy set out from Gibraltar, under heavy attack by the cocky German and Italian air forces. The attacks left the Ark Royal, Hood, KGV, Rodney, Dido, and 18 destroyers with bomb damage. The Queen Elizabeth, Norfolk, Fiji, an escort sloop, as well as 6 MTBs were sunk. Once out of range, the entire Royal Navy formed up in a US-style formation. Minelayers of all sizes trail the fleet, laying minefields to protect against U-Boats, those who weren't sent after the dummy convoy were sent to follow the real convoy heading for Britain. These would fall into the minefields, with a hefty %30 loss. The fleet makes it to Britain, but with the additional loss of the Exeter, Kenya, Nigeria, 7 destroyers, and 19 smaller vessels. Damages include the Illustrious, Barham, Suffolk, and 3 transports. Army personnel, now almost useless, are sent to flight school, where they learn the basics of flying, dogfighting, and ground attack. Aircraft start coming off the production lines, the most prominent being the Spitfire, Beaufighter, and Mosquito. During the delayed Battle of Britain, The cocky Luftwaffe bombers are sent in massive, loose formations in daylight. They sustain a surprising %75 loss rate after 3 runs. They switch to night attacks, and with radar-equipped ships off the coast, fighters, would achieve a still hefty %60 loss rate. The Germans try with fighters, but without better effect. Britain still wins the battle. All of the scraped metal from these aircraft are used to great effect by the British. Now, the U-Boats, without many targets, are sent to get rid of the RN around Britain, only to run into minefields, subchasers, aircraft, and as of early 1942, the USN. All of which are in concentrated forms now. U-Boats sustain a %47 loss rate. Still undaunted, Hitler orders the invasion of Britain. The invasion fleet sorties in late 1941, holding 27 transports, U-Boats, S-Boats/tenders, and the Bismarck, Tirpitz, Scharnhorst, and Gneisenau. British subs and MTBs attack with their own torpedoes, while aircraft take care of the U-Boats. When all is said and done, the Germans lose a transport, the Scharnhorst, 7 U-Boats, 12 S-Boats, and a tender. There are torpedoes and bombs in 8 more transports, the Tirpitz, the Gneisenau. 15 S-Boats, and 4 U-Boats are damaged. The Germans that do make it ashore run into the false shore batteries, and expecting a hail of fire, meet no resistance. They establish a beachhead, even under constant strafing by aircraft. When the transports leave to resupply, the RN aircraft carriers [i]Ark Royal, Illustrious, Victorious, Formidable, Indomitable[/i]. They send 7 more transports to the bottom, as well as the [i]Gneisenau[/i], sent to escort them along with the [i]Bismarck[/i] and [i]Tirpitz[/i]. When more troops are being brought to Britain, the carriers, which are low on bombs, send out bombers to search out U-Boats with depth charges, and fighters to sink S-Boats. The [i]Hood, KGV, Nelson, Rodney,Valiant, Malaya, Renown, POW, Repulse, Erebus,[/i] as well as heavy and light cruisers engage the convoy in a gun battle. The major escorts of the convoy are the [i]Bismarck, Tirpitz,[/i] and cruisers [i]Admiral Hipper, Prinz Eugen,[/i] a group of 8 destroyers, as well as 7 U-Boats, and 16 S-Boats/Tender. There are 15 transports. The U-Boats are engaged early on, with the loss of 4, and the other 3 damaged so badly they have to remain surfaced. The cruisers engage the destroyers and U-Boats, sinking 3 destroyers and the U-Boats, while damaging 4 more destroyers. They sustain the loss of the Danae to U-Boat torpedoes, and damage to the Dehli, Dragon, Belfast, and Erebus. with The battleships engage the enemy, concentrating and sinking the Bismarck and [i]Tirpitz[/i], with the loss of the [i]Hood, Valiant[/i], and [i]Renown[/i]. The [i]Admiral Hipper[/i] and [i]Prinz Eugen[/i] sustain heavy damage before withdrawing, leaving the transports. The undamaged [i]Nelson, Rodney, KGV,[/i] and [i]POW[/i] go after these, along with the cruisers [i]Edinburgh, Emerald, Jamaica, Norfolk[/i], and US vessels [i]Wichita, Tuscaloosa, Savannah[/i], [i]Vincennes[/i], [i]Augusta, Cincinnati, [/i], battleships [i]Texas, New York, Arkansas, New Mexico, Washington,[/i] and [i]North Carolina[/i]. The USN ships were sent to Britain to aid in their defense, and have just arrived. The S-Boats that survived the onslaught go after the battleships, damaging the Repulse, nearly sinking her. They are all sunk after trying to go after the well-armed US vessels. The German infantry are left to starve under siege on the beaches of Britain, after only 4 transports are left from the original convoy of 15. After refueling in port, the USN destroyers run in during the middle of the night, sinking the transports with torpedoes while offloading supplies. The demoralized Germans on the beach try to call in air drops, the planes only to be shot down on the way to and from the drop zones by heavy naval and ground AA fire, as well as aircraft from the RAF/CAAC, and the FAA/USN (carrier [i]Ranger[/i] came with the battle fleet.)

After these massive losses, a large internal resistance of the Gestapo, and top generals arrests Hitler and he dies in front of a firing squad. The top commanders work together to come up with a strategy. They drum up a last-ditch plan: use the Italian fleet, along with every possible U-Boat, to attack the fleet that are forming up in the British Channel. They assemble about 89 U-Boats, The battleships [i]Vittorio, Roma, Vittorio Veneto, Giulio Cesare, Conte di Cavour, Andrea Doria,[/i] and [i]Caio Duilio[/i]. Cruisers include the: [i]Bari, Bolzano, Trieste, Trento, Zara, Fiume, Pola, Gorizia, Scipione Africano, Attilio Regolo, Attilo Regolo, Pompeo Magno, Alberto da Giussano, Alberico da Barbiano, Alberico da Barbiano, Giovanni dalle Bande Nere, Luigi Cadorna, Armando Diaz, Raimondo Montecuccoli, Muzio Attendolo, Emanuele Filiberto Duca d'Aosta, Eugenio di Savoia, Duca degli Abruzzi,[/i] and [i]Giuseppe Garibaldi[/i]. The Germans also add on the Lützow, Admiral Scheer, Blücher, Schleswig-Holstein, Schlesien, Emden, Köln, Leipzig, Nürnberg, the newly repaired Admiral Hipper, and Prinz Eugen. The Italians also have a fleet of subs, corvettes, destroyers, and torpedo boats. Also At their disposal are the French vessels captured in France. This force is everything the Germans have left.

After hearing the news of Hitler's death, the world was ecstatic. Women began dancing in the streets, but the men were hard at work in Britain. With Hitler gone now, more experienced military leaders would run the show. With the men in the Pacific trapped in 1946, the build up of to liberate Europe can begin. Vessels, including aircraft carriers, are streaming in. Strangely though, aircraft production in the US has been slower than usual. A civil rights movement has begun, as the transportation issue in Philly has spread. Aircraft factories are hit hard. The large African-American work force are on strike, as the large white work force has needed transportation, and are leaving the blacks to walk to work, even if it is miles away.

The USN is sending 2 Essexes, 2 Midways, plus the new British designed Maltas to Britain. They, along with fleet that was just there, would spearhead their way to Europe. But, disaster strikes. Just as the Normandy invasion forces begin crossing the Channel, S-Boats fire torpedoes, damaging the escort craft that are supposed to be hunting the U-Boats. U-Boats and other Axis subs begin streaming into the Channel, from the north and south. From the North, German surface vessels, inder the cover of the Luftwaffe, will attack. The Italians will do the same from the South. The Italians, with more vessels, will slice into the convoy, and meet up with the Germans. The entire invasion force is split from their escorting carriers and battleships. The subs will sortie through the battle fleet, putting a single torpedo in as many vessels as they can. This is mostly against the carriers, so as to render their air cover as useless as possible. But they are instructed to not sink these ships, as when the Germans do win, they will have a grand navy. Aircraft rolling off decks at the angle the ships are listing. Battleships can't correctly aim their guns. Even with attempt to not sink any ships though, damage to some vessels, like the USS Charleston (Essex class), USS Monitor (Oregon City class), and HMS New Zealand (Malta class) are just too much. It threatens to capsize, so the signal is given to abandon ship. Destroyers pick up the many survivors, and go to work, towing back the damaged ships to Britain. %60 of the support fleet is gone, having to retire for repairs in Britain and the US. Only the Malta, Illustrious, Boxer (Essex class), and one of the 3 currently operational Habbakuk class carriers survive (USS Platts - my name of choice) The battleships KGV, Rodney, Nelson, Texas, and New York are left. Only nine cruisers are left. The losses are 1 light carrier (HMS Indomitable) 1 Battleship (HMS Queen Elizabeth) 2 Cruisers (HMAS Perth, USS Phoenix), and 7 Destroyers. The fleet is sent back, with the exception of the undamaged capital ships, and 31 destroyers. They are to trail the invasion fleet and take out U-Boat stalkers.The Invasion fleet is behind them, and is being turned around with the danger of U-Boats nearby. The Italian Fleet is busy setting up shop off Normandy, while The Germans go to the Paix de Caliais. AA ships are brought in, along with S-Boat and U-Boat tenders, which go on normal patrols to look for a prying enemy. More to come later, as I have to think more about it.

Rob, did those ships have guns onboard? Even if they were for self-defense? Or armed Escorts?

New scernario for Europe. Still involves evac of civilians though. The mark is still Dunkirk. The losing team: The Allies. The British are still unable to get the better part of the men off the beaches. The British are cornered on their island, with only a fraction of the military they had a week ago. Hitler, knowing of the very possible danger this would bring, chooses to wait until Britain has fallen to attack Russia. Churchill sends out an SOS, calling every British ship, man, and as many supplies to haul themselves to Britain. Form North Africa, the Commonwealth armies are loading up onto ships, including the Free French forces that include the fleet anchored in Morocco. Convoys coming from the East will come from under The Cape of Good Hope are to dock at Liberia, then to Gibraltar and meet up with the forces coming from North Africa. A dummy convoy left from England in earl 1941. It comprised of some 67 empty, obsolete merchant ships. The crews are of volunteers, and are minimal for each ship. The only escorts for this convoy are the old battleships: HMS Ramillies, HMS Revenge, HMS Royal Sovereign, HMS Resolution, and HMS Warspite. They were to proceed to Boston, where they would undergo a refit. Every sea-capable ship in England was sent to clear a path from Gibraltar to safety in England, outside the range of the Luftwaffe. The convoy set out from Gibraltar, under heavy attack by the cocky German and Italian air forces. The attacks left the Ark Royal, Hood, KGV, Rodney, Dido, and 18 destroyers with bomb damage. The Queen Elizabeth, Norfolk, Fiji, an escort sloop, as well as 6 MTBs were sunk. Once out of range, the entire Royal Navy formed up in a US-style formation. Minelayers of all sizes trail the fleet, laying minefields to protect against U-Boats, those who weren't sent after the dummy convoy were sent to follow the real convoy heading for Britain. These would fall into the minefields, with a hefty %30 loss. The fleet makes it to Britain, but with the additional loss of the Exeter, Kenya, Nigeria, 7 destroyers, and 19 smaller vessels. Damages include the Illustrious, Barham, Suffolk, and 3 transports. Army personnel, now almost useless, are sent to flight school, where they learn the basics of flying, dogfighting, and ground attack. Aircraft start coming off the production lines, the most prominent being the Spitfire, Beaufighter, and Mosquito. During the delayed Battle of Britain, The cocky Luftwaffe bombers are sent in massive, loose formations in daylight. They sustain a surprising %75 loss rate after 3 runs. They switch to night attacks, and with radar-equipped ships off the coast, fighters, would achieve a still hefty %60 loss rate. The Germans try with fighters, but without better effect. Britain still wins the battle. All of the scraped metal from these aircraft are used to great effect by the British. Now, the U-Boats, without many targets, are sent to get rid of the RN around Britain, only to run into minefields, subchasers, aircraft, and as of early 1942, the USN. All of which are in concentrated forms now. U-Boats sustain a %47 loss rate. Still undaunted, Hitler orders the invasion of Britain. The invasion fleet sorties in late 1941, holding 27 transports, U-Boats, S-Boats/tenders, and the Bismarck, Tirpitz, Scharnhorst, and Gneisenau. British subs and MTBs attack with their own torpedoes, while aircraft take care of the U-Boats. When all is said and done, the Germans lose a transport, the Scharnhorst, 7 U-Boats, 12 S-Boats, and a tender. There are torpedoes and bombs in 8 more transports, the Tirpitz, the Gneisenau. 15 S-Boats, and 4 U-Boats are damaged. The Germans that do make it ashore run into the false shore batteries, and expecting a hail of fire, meet no resistance. They establish a beachhead, even under constant strafing by aircraft. When the transports leave to resupply, the RN aircraft carriers [i]Ark Royal, Illustrious, Victorious, Formidable, Indomitable[/i]. They send 7 more transports to the bottom, as well as the [i]Gneisenau[/i], sent to escort them along with the [i]Bismarck[/i] and [i]Tirpitz[/i]. When more troops are being brought to Britain, the carriers, which are low on bombs, send out bombers to search out U-Boats with depth charges, and fighters to sink S-Boats. The [i]Hood, KGV, Nelson, Rodney,Valiant, Malaya, Renown, POW, Repulse, Erebus,[/i] as well as heavy and light cruisers engage the convoy in a gun battle. The major escorts of the convoy are the [i]Bismarck, Tirpitz,[/i] and cruisers [i]Admiral Hipper, Prinz Eugen,[/i] a group of 8 destroyers, as well as 7 U-Boats, and 16 S-Boats/Tender. There are 15 transports. The U-Boats are engaged early on, with the loss of 4, and the other 3 damaged so badly they have to remain surfaced. The cruisers engage the destroyers and U-Boats, sinking 3 destroyers and the U-Boats, while damaging 4 more destroyers. They sustain the loss of the Danae to U-Boat torpedoes, and damage to the Dehli, Dragon, Belfast, and Erebus. with The battleships engage the enemy, concentrating and sinking the Bismarck and [i]Tirpitz[/i], with the loss of the [i]Hood, Valiant[/i], and [i]Renown[/i]. The [i]Admiral Hipper[/i] and [i]Prinz Eugen[/i] sustain heavy damage before withdrawing, leaving the transports. The undamaged [i]Nelson, Rodney, KGV,[/i] and [i]POW[/i] go after these, along with the cruisers [i]Edinburgh, Emerald, Jamaica, Norfolk[/i], and US vessels [i]Wichita, Tuscaloosa, Savannah[/i], [i]Vincennes[/i], [i]Augusta, Cincinnati, [/i], battleships [i]Texas, New York, Arkansas, New Mexico, Washington,[/i] and [i]North Carolina[/i]. The USN ships were sent to Britain to aid in their defense, and have just arrived. The S-Boats that survived the onslaught go after the battleships, damaging the Repulse, nearly sinking her. They are all sunk after trying to go after the well-armed US vessels. The German infantry are left to starve under siege on the beaches of Britain, after only 4 transports are left from the original convoy of 15. After refueling in port, the USN destroyers run in during the middle of the night, sinking the transports with torpedoes while offloading supplies. The demoralized Germans on the beach try to call in air drops, the planes only to be shot down on the way to and from the drop zones by heavy naval and ground AA fire, as well as aircraft from the RAF/CAAC, and the FAA/USN (carrier [i]Ranger[/i] came with the battle fleet.)

After these massive losses, a large internal resistance of the Gestapo, and top generals arrests Hitler and he dies in front of a firing squad. The top commanders work together to come up with a strategy. They drum up a last-ditch plan: use the Italian fleet, along with every possible U-Boat, to attack the fleet that are forming up in the British Channel. They assemble about 89 U-Boats, The battleships [i]Vittorio, Roma, Vittorio Veneto, Giulio Cesare, Conte di Cavour, Andrea Doria,[/i] and [i]Caio Duilio[/i]. Cruisers include the: [i]Bari, Bolzano, Trieste, Trento, Zara, Fiume, Pola, Gorizia, Scipione Africano, Attilio Regolo, Attilo Regolo, Pompeo Magno, Alberto da Giussano, Alberico da Barbiano, Alberico da Barbiano, Giovanni dalle Bande Nere, Luigi Cadorna, Armando Diaz, Raimondo Montecuccoli, Muzio Attendolo, Emanuele Filiberto Duca d'Aosta, Eugenio di Savoia, Duca degli Abruzzi,[/i] and [i]Giuseppe Garibaldi[/i]. The Germans also add on the Lützow, Admiral Scheer, Blücher, Schleswig-Holstein, Schlesien, Emden, Köln, Leipzig, Nürnberg, the newly repaired Admiral Hipper, and Prinz Eugen. The Italians also have a fleet of subs, corvettes, destroyers, and torpedo boats. Also At their disposal are the French vessels captured in France. This force is everything the Germans have left.

After hearing the news of Hitler's death, the world was ecstatic. Women began dancing in the streets, but the men were hard at work in Britain. With Hitler gone now, more experienced military leaders would run the show. With the men in the Pacific trapped in 1946, the build up of to liberate Europe can begin. Vessels, including aircraft carriers, are streaming in. Strangely though, aircraft production in the US has been slower than usual. A civil rights movement has begun, as the transportation issue in Philly has spread. Aircraft factories are hit hard. The large African-American work force are on strike, as the large white work force has needed transportation, and are leaving the blacks to walk to work, even if it is miles away.

The USN is sending 2 Essexes, 2 Midways, plus the new British designed Maltas to Britain. They, along with fleet that was just there, would spearhead their way to Europe. But, disaster strikes. Just as the Normandy invasion forces begin crossing the Channel, S-Boats fire torpedoes, damaging the escort craft that are supposed to be hunting the U-Boats. U-Boats and other Axis subs begin streaming into the Channel, from the north and south. From the North, German surface vessels, inder the cover of the Luftwaffe, will attack. The Italians will do the same from the South. The Italians, with more vessels, will slice into the convoy, and meet up with the Germans. The entire invasion force is split from their escorting carriers and battleships. The subs will sortie through the battle fleet, putting a single torpedo in as many vessels as they can. This is mostly against the carriers, so as to render their air cover as useless as possible. But they are instructed to not sink these ships, as when the Germans do win, they will have a grand navy. Aircraft rolling off decks at the angle the ships are listing. Battleships can't correctly aim their guns. Even with attempt to not sink any ships though, damage to some vessels, like the USS Franklin (Essex class), USS Monitor (Oregon City class), and HMS New Zealand (Malta class) are just too much. It threatens to capsize, so the signal is given to abandon ship. Destroyers pick up the many survivors, and go to work, towing back the damaged ships to Britain. %60 of the support fleet is gone, having to retire for repairs in Britain and the US. Only the Malta, Illustrious, Boxer (Essex class), and one of the 3 currently operational Habbakuk class carriers survive (USS Platts - my name of choice) The battleships KGV, Rodney, Nelson, Texas, and New York are left. Only nine cruisers are left. The losses are 1 light carrier (HMS Indomitable) 1 Battleship (HMS Queen Elizabeth) 2 Cruisers (HMAS Perth, USS Phoenix), and 7 Destroyers. The fleet is sent back, with the exception of the undamaged capital ships, and 31 destroyers. They are to trail the invasion fleet and take out U-Boat stalkers.The Invasion fleet is behind them, and is being turned around with the danger of U-Boats nearby. The Italian Fleet is busy setting up shop off Normandy, while The Germans go to the Paix de Caliais. AA ships are brought in, along with S-Boat and U-Boat tenders, which go on normal patrols to look for a prying enemy. More to come later, as I have to think more about it.

[quote="Sr. Gopher"]Why waste the ships on troops that are under seige? Also, if ships are transporting civilians, aren't there rules against putting torpedos into them? I know there were issues in the past, but wasn't there some Convention concerning this? Like the Geneva Convention?[/quote]

Firstly, to reinforce the troops already there.

Secondly, check your history. Plenty of civlian ships attacked during Ww2.

Rob

I do recall thought hat the Japanese ignored the Geneva Convention. Also, A Medic is well cpable of shooting a gun. How about a ship without a waepon, and painted white?

[quote="Sr. Gopher"]Why waste the ships on troops that are under seige? Also, if ships are transporting civilians, aren't there rules against putting torpedos into them? I know there were issues in the past, but wasn't there some Convention concerning this? Like the Geneva Convention?[/quote]

You can have as many conventions and rules as you want, but you can only enforce them if you win. War isn't fair. It was the same convention that made it against the 'rules' to shoot a medic, of any army (which also required the medics to assist anyone regardless as well) but they still got shot (which is why in they started painting large red crosses on their helmets), at the end of the war the Japanese even made it their goal to shoot the medics first (which is why they stopped painting markings on the helmet and wearing the armband).

Why waste the ships on troops that are under seige? Also, if ships are transporting civilians, aren't there rules against putting torpedos into them? I know there were issues in the past, but wasn't there some Convention concerning this? Like the Geneva Convention?