The Ship Model Forum

Going back briefly to the Albacore floatplane, I'm afraid the identity is incorrct, as you can clearly see from the second pic that it is L7076, the second prototype not L7074 the first prototype This was backed up by the entry in William Green's Floatplanes book

[quote="Aop Aur"][quote="Captain Morgan"]Having seen actual drawings that are different from what you show there, I would like to see better drawings of the turrets to get the shape of A turret. Those drawings from that source aren’t the best to rely on. Did you get some from drawings from any museums or other sources?[/quote]
Upon obtaining some of the original plans from the Greenwich National Maritime Museum, I've compared them to the drawing I posted from Garzke & Dulin Allied Battleships of World War II book, and it was clearly reconstructed according to the original. Everything is accurately drawn, even down to the smallest portholes, so it is merely a simplified reconstruction. The book did add some of the features missing from the original, e.g. propeller shafts, struts, mast tops, etc., all to make a complete illustration of the ship. They also put the Supermarine Walrus in place of the intended Fairey Albacore floatplane (which is actually present on the NMM plans), among some other details they may have analysed to be more plausible in reality.

These are portions of the NMM drawings (same as the one EJ posted above, but better scanned.)
"A" Turret:

[img]https://i.imgur.com/BuDqQR3.jpg[/img]

"Y" Turret ("B" also looks identical):

[img]https://i.imgur.com/nHVVrR2.jpg[/img]

As for the idea behind the extension and shape of the A Turret, I still don't know exactly. Carl Gibeault may be right. Or perhaps it may have something to do with ventilation system (in rough seas, A turret may have been most critical with the low freeboard.) Maybe someone could point out other guns that may have similar modifications, so we might better understand the idea. The Iowas and Bismarck/Tirpitz's turrets 1 also had minor differences from the rest, but they aren't as evident as the Lion here.


Aop[/quote]

Thanks for posting, this was what I was trying to see. The shape could be from many different things such as ventilation. My Lion will probably not use the DCT mounted on the aft turret, since its a never were and I think the decision would probably end up that a higher mounted DCT is more useful, even though I know the RN relied more on turret rangefinders than DCT's for ranging during engagements.

It seems the best thing to do would be to look at plans of "A" and "B", "C" turrets, if such things still exist, to see what is located in each turret. A plan view of the turret interior would show the locations of the interior materials even in the rear of the turrets. "A" turret's plan would show what was supposed to be there.

[quote="Captain Morgan"]Having seen actual drawings that are different from what you show there, I would like to see better drawings of the turrets to get the shape of A turret. Those drawings from that source aren’t the best to rely on. Did you get some from drawings from any museums or other sources?[/quote]
Upon obtaining some of the original plans from the Greenwich National Maritime Museum, I've compared them to the drawing I posted from Garzke & Dulin Allied Battleships of World War II book, and it was clearly reconstructed according to the original. Everything is accurately drawn, even down to the smallest portholes, so it is merely a simplified reconstruction. The book did add some of the features missing from the original, e.g. propeller shafts, struts, mast tops, etc., all to make a complete illustration of the ship. They also put the Supermarine Walrus in place of the intended Fairey Albacore floatplane (which is actually present on the NMM plans), among some other details they may have analysed to be more plausible in reality.

These are portions of the NMM drawings (same as the one EJ posted above, but better scanned.)
"A" Turret:

[img]https://i.imgur.com/BuDqQR3.jpg[/img]

"Y" Turret ("B" also looks identical):

[img]https://i.imgur.com/nHVVrR2.jpg[/img]

As for the idea behind the extension and shape of the A Turret, I still don't know exactly. Carl Gibeault may be right. Or perhaps it may have something to do with ventilation system (in rough seas, A turret may have been most critical with the low freeboard.) Maybe someone could point out other guns that may have similar modifications, so we might better understand the idea. The Iowas and Bismarck/Tirpitz's turrets 1 also had minor differences from the rest, but they aren't as evident as the Lion here.


Aop

If I'm not mistaken, "A" turret was also an emergency conning station in the event the main and secondary bridge structures were knocked out or destroyed. I don't have my reference materials available to me so I'm unsure of the source.

On one view the rear of A-turret isn't an arced plate as on nearly all RN turrets but some flattened trapezoid shape with an outlined platform on top of it; as if the rear corners of the turret had been cut off and the rear is drawn as a flat plate. The result is visible in a side view as well, but the outlined platform on top is absent. A-turret is longer than B & C turret with this modified rear outline. These cut-off corners do not make much sense in terms of avoiding a collision with B-barbette when traversing.

[attachment=0]Lion-Aturret.jpg[/attachment]

[quote="Aop Aur"]Also, the 'A' turret is different to 'B' and 'Y'. http://i.imgur.com/h4hbqTN.jpg[/quote]

Based on just this image, I don't see a significant difference in A turret. It would actually be unusual for it to be so because that would require additional drawings and design work to make one different when all three turrets are doing the same thing with the same number of guns. The original KGV design had 3 quad turrets, but in the final approved plan B turret was redesigned as a twin to free up more weight for armor. From what I have read, that redesign delayed completion by 6 months. The British, at the time, were suffering from a shortage of draftsmen and there would have had to have been some [u]major[/u] reason to make one turret different. What difference are you seeing?

[quote="Aop Aur"]Hi all.
I think the best way of doing this class of ships is scratch-building. Using the KGV as a basis is a good idea, only it will need to be lengthened and widen to match the Lion's characteristic. Note that the Lion class's superstructure and bridge are different. Also, the 'A' turret is different to 'B' and 'Y'. :thumbs_up_1: :heh: http://i.imgur.com/h4hbqTN.jpg[/quote]

Having seen actual drawings that are different from what you show there, I would like to see better drawings of the turrets to get the shape of A turret. Those drawings from that source aren’t the best to rely on. Did you get some from drawings from any museums or other sources?

Hello all,

I would like to know where I can get a good plan of the Fairey Swordfish seaplane [color=#FF0000]floats[/color] that includes their body plans/cross sections. I am about to design the floats for my Albacores aboard HMS Lion, and need an immediate help...before Shapeways free shipping promotion ends tomorrow.

A very, very prompt reply would be very appreciated,
Aur

Thanks for the confirmation Maarten! I am writing an email to you.
Aop

[quote="Aop Aur"][img]http://i.imgur.com/gSEPTxE.jpg[/img]
[/quote]
Hi Aop,

SilverGhost must be right, in the image you uploaded earlier it says "Boiler room downtake" in the same space. Downtake must be another word for ventilation channel, similar to 'uptake' for the exhaust channels.

[quote="SilverGhost"]I think that it is ventilation grille of boiler department №1
On Myoko cruisers the same grilles were there[/quote]
Thanks for the reply, Andrew. I didn't come to think that the ventilation grilles of the fore funnel boiler wasn't on the same position as the KGVs. It's quite interesting that the grilles are on the superstructure, as most, or maybe all RN ships have it as a separate structure.

So I would assume the pattern will be similar to that of the KGV's ventilator? Confirmation will make me start tackling the pieces now... :heh:

Thanks,
Aop

I think that it is ventilation grille of boiler department №1
On Myoko cruisers the same grilles were there

Thanks for the reply. I think the circular lines are the platforms, so I'll go with that.

It seems like I will endlessly run into questions again and again while building/designing this ship. Here I've got another one; looking at this drawing:
[img]http://i.imgur.com/MY3lhcU.png[/img]
Can anybody tell what the square thing is?? This is not present in the KGV, and supposedly any other ships.
Here's a top view drawing:
[img]http://i.imgur.com/UEqKnmM.jpg[/img]

Thanks in advance!
Aop

[quote="Aop Aur"]I came across another issue with the plans while designing a 3d part for a customer. Here is a pic of the pom poms platform in the Tamiya PoW kit:
[img]http://i.imgur.com/c8X2rNO.jpg[/img]
And here is a plan view of KGV (platform layout same as PoW):
[img]http://i.imgur.com/2PfZe9F.jpg[/img]

And this is Lion's drawings of the platforms:
[img]http://i.imgur.com/gSEPTxE.jpg[/img]
In the drawing above, the four circular lines should be the platform, that's a different shape to the KGVs.
But in the profile drawing, there are only the rectangular structure and the pom poms atop of it; no platforms and splinter sheilds drawn:
[img]http://i.imgur.com/7inE2gv.jpg[/img]

Any suggestions about the platforms shapes?

Thanks,
Aop[/quote]

I would suggest they would be identical or nearly so to that of the KGV's, given the drawings and pics of the last few posts.

Regards

M. A. Rozon

Bigger Guns MORE POWER!

I came across another issue with the plans while designing a 3d part for a customer. Here is a pic of the pom poms platform in the Tamiya PoW kit:
[img]http://i.imgur.com/c8X2rNO.jpg[/img]
And here is a plan view of KGV (platform layout same as PoW):
[img]http://i.imgur.com/2PfZe9F.jpg[/img]

And this is Lion's drawings of the platforms:
[img]http://i.imgur.com/gSEPTxE.jpg[/img]
In the drawing above, the four circular lines should be the platform, that's a different shape to the KGVs.
But in the profile drawing, there are only the rectangular structure and the pom poms atop of it; no platforms and splinter sheilds drawn:
[img]http://i.imgur.com/7inE2gv.jpg[/img]

Any suggestions about the platforms shapes?

Thanks,
Aop

Hi all :wave_1:
I am currently building the HMS Lion in 1/350th scale, and am posting my progress here: http://www.shipmodels.info/mws_forum/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=162811

Hope you will enjoy! I am new to scratch-building, so please excuse my skill!
:big_grin:
Aop.

Mea Culpa. The film i was referring to was indeed MTE 453. From my (10 year old) notes MTE 452-455 were together on one reel. MTE 452 is Valiant's Swordfish (I think). I had not realised that MTE was Pegasus. Thanks for the update, Tim.

THE Imperial War Museum catalogue shows a film clip (MTE 453) entitled "HMS PEGASUS ALBACORE LANDINGS" and said to be dated 1940-03-16 with the caption "[i]Landing in sea by Albacore seaplane. Aircraft hooks on and is raised from water. Close ups except first shot of landing which is long shot.[/i]" Another (MTE 494), entitled "HMS PEGASUS ALBACORE" and said to be dated 1940-03-14 is captioned "[i]Launches of Albacore seaplane from catapult are shown. Last shot in each roll is of Albacore landplane.[/i]" Unfortunately neither clip is available online.

These appear to be the same-pattern floats as used on the Swordfish, perhaps taken from existing spares stockpiles.