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Re: Prinz Eugen |
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I've been searching all sources to no avail. What is the current knowledge on the turret top colour during the beginning of Rheinübung before the camo was painted over in Grimstadtfjord? Some sources indicate yellow areas on turret tops (Abram Joslin 2007 / A. Bonomi), others plain gray (Eric Leon). I like the looks of the yellow tops and intend to do them unless they are for sure wrong.
- Risto
I've been searching all sources to no avail. What is the current knowledge on the turret top colour during the beginning of Rheinübung before the camo was painted over in Grimstadtfjord? Some sources indicate yellow areas on turret tops (Abram Joslin 2007 / A. Bonomi), others plain gray (Eric Leon). I like the looks of the yellow tops and intend to do them unless they are for sure wrong.
- Risto
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Posted: Wed Nov 28, 2018 4:44 am |
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Re: Prinz Eugen |
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I wrote that it "is believed" to be reflection. I never wondered about the other surfaces except for turret Anton.
To me, it doesn't matter if the sky is overcast or not. This photo in particular, provided it is a real colour photo, is worthless when trying to pin down KM colours. The mellow yellow of the superstructure is ridiculous, the intense and over-exaggerated "colours" of that bloke to the right rule out the turret top to have been painted in the blue that I know from the 1940 paint regulations. Of course, they could have used something else, but why the heck are some colours intense, while the "blue" is so ... pale? How would it appear under better light conditions? Even lighter?
The funny thing is, that everybody seems to connect this photo to the Dash because of some weird blue colour in it.
Look at turret Anton; it still features the rangerfinder covers. So, definately not the Channel Dash (and the ship is not camouflaged).
If there are any known occasions of the KM wearing blue turret tops before the Dash, then please show it.
I say, and this is only my opinion, it's not blue and it's not the Dash. It could be anything. Trials in the Baltic, transit to Norway, Op. Berlin, anything.
And I also assume that most people do not know if the photo shows SH or GU...
Best ~ Olaf!
I wrote that it "is believed" to be reflection. I never wondered about the other surfaces except for turret Anton.
To me, it doesn't matter if the sky is overcast or not. This photo in particular, provided it is a real colour photo, is worthless when trying to pin down KM colours. The mellow yellow of the superstructure is ridiculous, the intense and over-exaggerated "colours" of that bloke to the right rule out the turret top to have been painted in the blue that I know from the 1940 paint regulations. Of course, they could have used something else, but why the heck are some colours intense, while the "blue" is so ... pale? How would it appear under better light conditions? Even lighter?
The funny thing is, that everybody seems to connect this photo to the Dash because of some weird blue colour in it.
Look at turret Anton; it still features the rangerfinder covers. So, definately not the Channel Dash (and the ship is not camouflaged).
If there are any known occasions of the KM wearing blue turret tops before the Dash, then please show it.
I say, and this is only my opinion, it's not blue and it's not the Dash. It could be anything. Trials in the Baltic, transit to Norway, Op. Berlin, anything.
And I also assume that most people do not know if the photo shows SH or GU...
Best ~ Olaf!
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Posted: Tue Aug 26, 2014 7:05 am |
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Re: Prinz Eugen |
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Olaf Held wrote: Please note that the tops of the main gun turrets should be blue as well, but they aren't.
Olaf! You can only see a bit of Anton turret roof and it doesn't appear to be the same color as the rest of the turret. As you say, it's probably wet and reflecting sky color, but since the sky is overcast (check photo) it's reflecting a lot of grey. Also, Anton turret is viewed at a more oblique angle which increases the reflectivity. My theory....  [quote="Olaf Held"] Please note that the tops of the main gun turrets should be blue as well, but they aren't.
Olaf![/quote]
You can only see a bit of Anton turret roof and it doesn't appear to be the same color as the rest of the turret. As you say, it's probably wet and reflecting sky color, but since the sky is overcast (check photo) it's reflecting a lot of grey. Also, Anton turret is viewed at a more oblique angle which increases the reflectivity. My theory.... :wave_1:
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Posted: Mon Aug 25, 2014 12:20 pm |
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Re: Prinz Eugen |
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Olaf, if the blue is the result of a wet turret top reflecting sky, wouldn't the wet decks also appear the same shade?
Olaf, if the blue is the result of a wet turret top reflecting sky, wouldn't the wet decks also appear the same shade?
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Posted: Mon Aug 25, 2014 11:50 am |
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Re: Prinz Eugen |
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Yes. Color photo on pg. 44, Warship Pictorial #36 - Scharnhorst. However...if you want to believe it's sky reflection, when in fact it was a cloudy day...  Yes. Color photo on pg. 44, Warship Pictorial #36 - Scharnhorst. However...if you want to believe it's sky reflection, when in fact it was a cloudy day... :big_grin:
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Posted: Sat Aug 23, 2014 11:11 am |
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Re: Prinz Eugen |
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biggles2 wrote: My mistake!  It's Warship Pictorial #36 - Scharnhorst; pg. 44. The caption states the Scharnhorst and Gneisenau had blue turret tops during the Channel Dash, but does not mention Prinz E.  I don't have this book...  Does it show THIS photo? If so, this wasn't taken during the Channel Dash, and the top of that secondary gun turret is to be believed having been wet, showing the somewhat blue reflection from the sky. Please note that the tops of the main gun turrets should be blue as well, but they aren't. This leaves me without a primary source, still. Happy searching ~ Olaf! [quote="biggles2"]My mistake! :Oops_1: It's Warship Pictorial #36 - Scharnhorst; pg. 44. The caption states the Scharnhorst and Gneisenau had blue turret tops during the Channel Dash, but does not mention Prinz E. :doh_1:[/quote]
I don't have this book... :roll_eyes:
Does it show [url=http://www.history.navy.mil/photos/images/h83000/h83099k.jpg]THIS[/url] photo?
If so, this wasn't taken during the Channel Dash, and the top of that secondary gun turret is to be believed having been wet, showing the somewhat blue reflection from the sky. Please note that the tops of the main gun turrets should be blue as well, but they aren't.
This leaves me without a primary source, still.
Happy searching ~ Olaf!
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Posted: Fri Aug 22, 2014 4:34 pm |
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Re: Prinz Eugen |
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Following the Kriegsmarine practice of painting turret tops certain colors for air recognition, and since both Scharnhorst and Gneisenau had blue tops, it would be logical that Prinz E also had the same. But there is no evidence or proof. I guess the Kriegsberichter on board Prinz E had just run out of color film.  Following the Kriegsmarine practice of painting turret tops certain colors for air recognition, and since both Scharnhorst and Gneisenau had blue tops, it would be logical that Prinz E also had the same. But there is no evidence or proof. I guess the Kriegsberichter on board Prinz E had just run out of color film. :Mad_5: :big_grin:
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Posted: Fri Aug 22, 2014 10:29 am |
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Re: Prinz Eugen |
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So, would the following be close to correct?
Hull: dukelgrau 51
Superstructure: Hellgrau 50
Camo:dukelgrau 1 or 2
Could the hull also be mittlegrau (stone wall grey in Vallejo)
So, would the following be close to correct?
Hull: dukelgrau 51
Superstructure: Hellgrau 50
Camo:dukelgrau 1 or 2
Could the hull also be mittlegrau (stone wall grey in Vallejo)
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Posted: Thu Aug 21, 2014 6:50 pm |
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Re: Prinz Eugen |
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My mistake! It's Warship Pictorial #36 - Scharnhorst; pg. 44. The caption states the Scharnhorst and Gneisenau had blue turret tops during the Channel Dash, but does not mention Prinz E. My mistake! :Oops_1: It's Warship Pictorial #36 - Scharnhorst; pg. 44. The caption states the Scharnhorst and Gneisenau had blue turret tops during the Channel Dash, but does not mention Prinz E. :doh_1:
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Posted: Thu Aug 21, 2014 5:53 pm |
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Re: Prinz Eugen |
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biggles2 wrote: That is true. There is a color photo - not colorized, or hand tinted - originally published in Signal magazine. I think it is in Classic Warships on Prinz E.  Are you referring to Steve's Warship Pictorial #21? This is/was available ... well ... via Steve's classicwarships.com site... I have that Pictorial, and it's not in there... Can you please double-check the source for me? Thanks in advance Happy searching ~ Olaf! [quote="biggles2"]That is true. There is a color photo - not colorized, or hand tinted - originally published in Signal magazine. I think it is in Classic Warships on Prinz E. :thumbs_up_1:[/quote]
Are you referring to Steve's Warship Pictorial #21? This is/was available ... well ... via Steve's classicwarships.com site...
I have that Pictorial, and it's not in there...
Can you please double-check the source for me?
Thanks in advance
Happy searching ~ Olaf!
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Posted: Thu Aug 21, 2014 3:26 pm |
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Re: Prinz Eugen |
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Olaf Held wrote:
Turret tops are believed to have been painted blue. I have yet to find a primary source supporting this.
Happy painting ~ Olaf!
That is true. There is a color photo - not colorized, or hand tinted - originally published in Signal magazine. I think it is in Classic Warships on Prinz E. [quote="Olaf Held"]
Turret tops are believed to have been painted blue. I have yet to find a primary source supporting this.
Happy painting ~ Olaf![/quote]
That is true. There is a color photo - not colorized, or hand tinted - originally published in Signal magazine. I think it is in Classic Warships on Prinz E. :thumbs_up_1:
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Posted: Thu Aug 21, 2014 10:11 am |
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Re: Prinz Eugen |
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Most modellers opt for simple and numerous small dark grey blotches on a light grey superstructure. The hull should have been painted a medium grey colour. However, if I recall correctly, author and former crew member Schmalenbach states in one of his books that they applied far more colourful blotches (red, green, blue? Need to look it up) on the supertructure while in Brest. Whatever it was, I think it's quite a task to reproduce the pattern alone at scale 700...
Turret tops are believed to have been painted blue. I have yet to find a primary source supporting this.
For my linking, there are just too many unanswered questions regarding the appearance during the Dash. I'd go for something simpler.
Happy painting ~ Olaf!
Most modellers opt for simple and numerous small dark grey blotches on a light grey superstructure. The hull should have been painted a medium grey colour. However, if I recall correctly, author and former crew member Schmalenbach states in one of his books that they applied far more colourful blotches (red, green, blue? Need to look it up) on the supertructure while in Brest. Whatever it was, I think it's quite a task to reproduce the pattern alone at scale 700...
Turret tops are believed to have been painted blue. I have yet to find a primary source supporting this.
For my linking, there are just too many unanswered questions regarding the appearance during the Dash. I'd go for something simpler.
Happy painting ~ Olaf!
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Posted: Thu Aug 21, 2014 4:03 am |
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Prinz Eugen |
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Hi all:
I'm planning a 1/700 prinz eugen as she (or is it a him?) looked in operation cereberus. Does anyone know the color of her camoflage? Thanks in advance.
Hi all:
I'm planning a 1/700 prinz eugen as she (or is it a him?) looked in operation cereberus. Does anyone know the color of her camoflage? Thanks in advance.
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Posted: Wed Aug 20, 2014 9:21 pm |
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