The Ship Model Forum

In short, no. It's a can of worms.

I have suspended production of RN07 B5. That's all so far. A huge amount of discussion, emailing and debating ensues, but what I actually need is a physical sample people agree is typical of B5. We're not there yet.

It has been a while since there has been an update or any new information passed on about these planned paint updates. I am just wondering if there is any news about progress or fixing up the suspected misidentified or incorrect paints that were discussed on the Prince of Wales camo thread.

Any time is OK here.

Hi John,

Thanks for that.

If it's ok I'd like to call you up on Skype in a few weeks to go over a few things. I've just realised I never sent that AP631 sample either so I'll do that too

Jamie,

Bear in mind that RAL, like the Munsell Book of Color, has been revised since WW2: "In the 1930s the numbers were changed uniformly to four digits and the collection was renamed to "RAL 840 R" (R for revised). With tints constantly added to the collection, it was revised again in 1961 and changed to "RAL 840-HR", which consists of 210 colors and is in use to this day. In the 1960s the colours were given supplemental names to avoid confusion in case of transposed digits." Perhaps some of our German modellers can give guidance as to whether the "supplemental names" applied in the 1960s correlate to wartime colour names.

Ain't project management FUN?

I don't have my kit yet but it is in the "want" list for the next month or two. Didn't see a need to rush in until some PE is available and possibly enough airplanes to do the full air group. But,, for whatever reasons, I've decided I like using British paint and PE on my Royal Navy ships where ever possible, so you've got a sale from me as soon as it's available.

I would really like to see an example of this bronze grey when it is mixed up. I would imagine it to be a very greenish colour hence the term "bronze" and the shade of green it goes when aged.

When ordering things now I ask the supplier first up if they have the item in stock, if not I move on to the next business. I have been caught out before buying things that are on wait list and order when I could have got it quicker elsewhere. It is irritating when companies do that.

Hi Tracy.

I ordered the pigments around 5 weeks ago from an online art shop. They mailed back to tell me they had run out of stock of yellow ochre and that they were waiting on stock. Fast forward 2 weeks I chase them up. Their supplier was moving premises. More delay. I chase up again with a bit of a moan along the lines of "Why are you selling what you don't have? If I'd known this I'd have gone elsewhere" etc. They arrived yesterday.
The 200ml pigments I was sold arrived in 200ml bottles each part filled to a different degree with the yellow ochre in particular half full with the manufacturer's label saying it contained 80g. The yellow is the dominant pigment in Bronze Grey and my concern is that downscaling the formula too much introduces too much risk due to diminishing proportional accuracy of my measuring out the different ingredients. When some strong elements are down to fractions of grams I get nervous.

I am not a patient person at the best of times so I contacted the seller as soon as I opened the package last night after arriving home from the day job and complained again about compound delays for mis-sold items. Another bottle of yellow ochre is in the post as of this morning. The liquid ingredients have been here for weeks.

I'd intended to have a solution for Bronze Grey available by now, but it seems my expectations about how long very simple tasks should take are always wrong by a large degree when people I can't directly control are involved.

We've got a new complete set of FS595 and RAL fans here now, with BS381C on the way. We're also liaising with a company about procuring our own photospectrometer. We'll have an answer for Bronze Grey soon though. Only the postal service can screw me up now and usually they're quite good round here ...

I managed to load up on most of the USN colors I needed before WEM capsized, but I will need RN colors for my Royal Navy Projects - so I will have some input into the tins and labels later. For now, I would like to request that you pop a notice that Bronze Gray is ready in the CASF Ark Royal thread when we reach that milestone. THat would seem to be a good place to advertise it as well.

Jamie, I echo the comments above about your open-mindedness on this matter; well done.
Once the existing colours are sorted, maybe we can persuade you to move on to a few that are absent but needed; e.g, USN Cavite Blue and RAN Chicago Blue for starters

Hi All,

Hi James have sent you e mail if you need anything please do not hesitate to contact me.

Best wishes,
Cag.

Good luck with the updates. I hope they work out and we can get some closure to what the colours really looked like.

Is there a list of the suspect colours that may need changing?

Hi Gents,

I'll take you up on that Richard. I'll PM you some contact details offline!


As for what is currently RN02 AP507B - good news then. I've just reordered a new batch to the existing formula. That'll take a few weeks to arrive and changing the description on the website and labels is a very simple task made all the easier by new tins arriving unlabelled, which is so much less soul destroying than peeling off old labels!

For my part, I have tried to follow the debate but got rather lost somewhere along the line and I'm not even sure that there is a single answer to what should be coming out of the individual tin anyway as there must have been some variation in the paint itself let alone in how it was applied and the subsequent weathering. The main one I would be concerned with is 507B as I bought several to complete 2 1/350th scale kits but have a 1/200th Hood in prospect after that so would make a plea for the existing mix to be continued

Dear Jamie,

Thank you for your open-mindedness on this matter.

In the case of B5, it seems fairly obvious that the true colour was something other than what came out of the WEM tinlet but, as EJ has said, we must move carefully with updates.

I am however happy to suggest that you continue with the current 507B mix pending us sorting out the whole question of Home Fleet Grey, but on the question of labelling on that tinlet, the Royal Navy listed 507B as dark not medium grey.

I also quite understand why you would want to continue to offer the full range of names in separate tins even if, for example the paint that comes out of the 507C and G45 tinlets was to be identical.

Given your willingness to consider the issues and my wish to support a British supplier who clearly has his heart in the right place you may wish to take this discussion off board to avoid aiding your competitors in any way. Let me know.

Best wishes,

Richard

Afternoon good people,

Following a post on the Prince of Wales thread, it seems some of Colourcoats' range may need some cross checking and possible update.

That thread is long and has lots of pontification about photographs, so I thought I'd start a new thread to ask what the customers want.

I'll start by stating that I have opinions myself on how we package - e.g. AP507C and G45 will remain separate products, because our customers aren't just you folks and most buy by description to suit a reference. I also don't quite follow AP507A equally AP507B, nor what you want me to do about it. Same goes for Home Fleet Greys etc.

Starting with label descriptions - are you happy with the descriptions? Are they any you feel would be better described alternatively? (specifics are required)

Tin contents - which colours do you believe are inaccurate or misrepresented? (the more specific the better - I can't work from photographs - I'll need L*a*b values, or a physical sample which I can make if a known good recipe is available)


Lastly, timing is important. I'm really not enthusiastic to scrap whole batches. RN02 AP507B has just run out, for example. Now would be a good time to revise it, not just after a fresh batch has been manufactured. We don't have money to waste like that and there are many other colours in the range besides Royal Navy colours which need to be restocked too. Royal Navy colours are amongst our best sellers and are prioritised as such for manufacturing, but I don't want to back out the rest of our range long-term as that will severely restrict our ability to execute some plans.

The floor is yours ...