The Ship Model Forum

I've been trying some of these suggestions and so far N53 is the closest match.
FS26270 is a little light in colour (Although I used the Humbrol match 126 so this could be a different shade to Sovereign Hobbies match)
Its still impossible to tell from looking at photos and a match with the ships paint is the best way to be sure so pretty much going to wait for that from Russ French before going with a final choice but I am very much leaning towards N53 Blue Grey at this stage.
Cheers
Callum

[quote="Brett Morrow"]That`s great Jamie, would this swatch M24 be on your site for viewing?
Myself and Callum McDonald have been investigating and comparing colours, N44 is totally incorrect, far to dark.

N53 Blue Grey looks like a good match comparing to different conditions, but we shall wait and see.

Russ French(Taskforce72) is obtaining a colour sample chip, when he gets it we will have the best opportunity to come up with the most appropriate comparative colour, watch this space.[/quote]

Hi Brett,

It sure is:
[url]https://www.sovereignhobbies.co.uk/collections/modern-naval-colours/products/m24-ran-haze-grey-fs26270[/url]

It is simply a match to FS26270 as per that SPECIFICATION AP-S0501 which Brad linked above though
[img]https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0730/0927/products/M14rgb_325ad5d7-24d9-4d68-a5db-fe7cf113c7bf_1024x1024.jpg?v=1500652704[/img]

I know a few people still in RAN reserves and one will be returning to a ship in a few days who has promised to find out the exact Australian colour standard for the paint and also what other colours are used on the ships at present.

I already have in my possession the storm grey N42 and pewter N63 that I had made up at the local bunnings hardware store. It looks great on both plastic and resin models.

I have asked the question to find out if the bridge grey N44 is used on anything in our navy.

When I was in and did the painting when I was on shore duties the ships were painted in storm grey hull and superstructure, pewter decks, they also had a primer they used when they went to bare metal and there also was a darker grey they used for bases of gun mounts and other fittings. A white stripe was also painted around the base of some davits and mountings for RAS. As for underwater hull the Australian ships were not seen to be red beneath the hull. They had a black bootcapping line painted and the lower hull was initially painted an anti-fouling red but immediately after the anti-fouling red was applied this was always covered with the same black that the boot capping was painted in and as a result the entire underwater hull of the ships were black.

That`s great Jamie, would this swatch M24 be on your site for viewing?
Myself and Callum McDonald have been investigating and comparing colours, N44 is totally incorrect, far to dark.

N53 Blue Grey looks like a good match comparing to different conditions, but we shall wait and see.

Russ French(Taskforce72) is obtaining a colour sample chip, when he gets it we will have the best opportunity to come up with the most appropriate comparative colour, watch this space.

I happened to have a very good match for FS26270 handy lying unused which is the spec called for on the attachment above, so have created Colourcoats M24 - RAN Haze Grey (FS26270) with it.

Hey guys in refrence to any RAN colors if you go to your local bunnings or paint shop they can mix the exact colour you need in acrylic or enamel paint from the wattyl industrial range, you just ask for it by the code being n44 or n42 here is the wattyl industrial coatings page for you http://www.wattylindustrial.com.au/colourcard/index.html .

Before someone chimes in, my previous post referring to RAN Haze changing colour was a poor choice of words.
Of course it physically does not change colour, but its visually perceived element most certainly does under different conditions.

Some may say every colour changes, but every colour is not this new composition.

2 shots, the transom looks a mid grey, the broadside shot looks darker with a blueish tinge.
A cut and paste will also reveal that its colour subtly changes throughout the length of the ship.

A fair question Jamie, the 16270 was quoted to me by a well known colleague whose expertise is in colours, you know him, he may reply if he sees this thread, I can`t speak for him, but I make mention that I still have the correspondence.

I am aware of the colour numbering, and also aware that this colour does not exist within the FS.
As you point out, and I previously, colour swatches mean nothing, a colour square on a screen.
The colour swatches were obtained from searches, but of course different sources show different variations.Without a colour chip of the actual paint, we are only guessing.


RAN Haze is a true Chameleon, it changes colour under different light conditions and angle, more so than the old compositions.

The plan at present is to make up a colour chart and pass it on to someone in navy to do a visual inspection and identify the closest match.
Unless someone can provide a colour sample, this is the only option available at present.
I will also try contact with Taskforce72 to obtain info on the connection with N44.
This colour issue will become a real problem for modellers of RAN projects who seek accuracy, and it needs to be sorted and an excepted equivalent colour chosen as a standard.
Because the colour composition is unique, no one can replicate its characteristics, only select a compromise to replicate its appearance under normal conditions, what`s normal?

I wouldn`t be making any moves on brands yet Stevo, we have to get more information, no body knows.

I noted a pic of an ACPB recently. (I will try to find it, I've never posted a pic here yet. I will try to post it if I can).
The pic showed quite a dark tone to the new grey.
I recall a comment (from somewhere, possibly a defence forum?) that RAN Haze Grey has subsequently been 'modified' to a slightly darker shade than original Haze Grey.
Any ideas if that's accurate?
Also, what's the preferred match in Tamiya &/or Vallejo?
Cheers guys.
:4)

Hi Brett,

Out of curiosity, how did you arrive at those 4 renders above? In particular arriving at two distinctly different shades for FS16270 and FS26270 suggest an error as the FS595 colour standard is not a real colourspace system but merely a collection of shades. My FS595C fan does not contain FS16270 but does include 26270 and 36270. The first number only denotes the finish and the following four are assigned to a particular set of colour values. In otherwords, FS1abcd is an identical colour to FS2abcd and FS3abcd.

Something has gone wrong somewhere if someone has given you data suggesting FS16270 is a different colour to FS26270.

Best regards,

Jamie

These photos are interesting, for any members pondering this issue.
Here are 2 shots of Ballarat`s starboard Harpoon cluster, one is in full sun, the other in overcast.

I am lead to believe, that the lower harpoon canisters are US Haze, the upper canisters? they appear as the same colour as the turret and forecastle sides, RAN Haze, but they appear to be flat. The reported US Haze colour for lower canisters of course needs further investigation.

As stated previous, colour swatches are nothing more that 2 dimensional reproductions giving a very rough idea of shades and equivalents, with no variables applied other than PC screen discrepancies.

Colour perception is an individual thing, you be the judge.
The quest to find a close, as accurate equivalent to RAN Haze (taking into account scale effect) continues.

Here`s that attachment of RAN against USN Haze.

Thanks for getting back Brad.
I had already found that article before you posted, although I have not gone into it in depth.
I am aware of the standards, and ability to mix from the standard numbering, also aware of reflectance and emissivity as I have done courses in IR. But my thanks for taking time to explain.

Disregard my previous post, after reading my correspondence more closely the colour references quoted are for RNZN `Wakaito Grey` and I had been thrown by the way it was written, my fault.

Therefore it appears that the colour is closely matched to USN Haze, but of a different gloss.
As stated, I have not read the full report, but another colleague stated some time ago in correspondence that RAN is full gloss 16270, and US Haze is 26270.
My enquiry was to determine if other colleagues had more info, and was interested in others opinions.

It appears some modellers, including Taskforce72 are using N44.
Maybe of help to others, I have attached some colour swatches.
Due to all the variables, this of course doesn`t mean much but gives modellers a rough idea.
It has been debated many times before how a change of gloss can alter the visual perception of a colour.
A very recent image of RAN Haze against USN Haze, a good example of how the variables can effect visual perception, RAN Haze appears lighter, due to the variables and its reflectance and light absorption it could very well be.
All the Best

Have a read of this, particularly 4.1 on the first page:

[url]http://www.apas.gov.au/PDFs/0501.pdf[/url]

Should tell you everything you need to know. Technically, rather than dealing with two different standards, Australia has its own Australian Standards for paint colours. You can go into any Bunnings store (I note you're in Australia) and they can mix up a can of any Australian Standard paint colour you want (although it will probably be too dark when scaled down to 1/350 or whatever scale is your thing) Note: NIRR = Near Infrared Reflectance; TSR = Total Solar Reflectance

c) Type II coatings are durable, colour-stable, low solar absorbing paint topcoats pigmented to either AS 2700 N42 Storm Grey colour or US Federal Standard 595C 26270, Haze Gray colour to be used for the finishing and refinishing of Navy vessels and associated equipment. They can be either low gloss (0501/1) or semi-gloss (0501/2). Together with the recommended primer, they provide a protective airdrying exterior surface in marine atmospheres.
d) Note that although the RAN Haze Grey topcoat is the same colour as USN Haze Gray, it differs from the US coating in NIRR, metameric requirements, gloss level, TSR and colour and gloss stability. The Type II coatings are formulated using polysiloxane as the resin binder. To minimise solar heat absorption the polysiloxane coatings shall have a NIRR of at least 60% at 800 nm for the RAN Haze Grey colour and a NIRR of at least 65% at 800 nm for the N42 Storm Grey colour and shall have a TSR of at least 42% for N42 Storm Grey and at least 38% for RAN Haze Grey when measured between 300 – 2500 nm.

cheers,

bj

There seems to be a bit of confusion on the new RAN Haze grey colour, and I wish to get to the bottom of it, no doubt others will be interested to confirm this issue.
Since the directive was first ordered in late 2013, to change from N42 `Storm Grey`to Haze Grey, a large proportion of the fleet has now been done.
From photo reference the colour definitely appears lighter against USN Haze.
From discussions with others, in particular Medway, and reference searches, this colour is reported as either BS 381C 626 `Camouflage Grey`
or BS 381C 676 `Light weatherwork Grey`
It has been reported that the colour is the same as USN Haze, but a different gloss level?
Remember, we are dealing with 2 different standards, BS and FS.

To my eye 676 is to light and I believe is out of the equation , this colour appears more in line with RNZN `Wakaito Grey`
626 Camo grey does look to be on the mark, and my opinion is this colour is correct.

Let us also take into account that due to screen variables, light, angle, slightly different manufacturer swatches etc, plus the important fact that an individual`s perception of a colour is a little different to the next person.

I use Humbrol enamels, I require definitive info as to what RAN Haze Grey is, once this information is established it is an easy task to get a sample pot and compare to Humbrol colours for the closest match possible.
There is also no information on whether the deck colour is still `Pewter`or it has also been changed?

Can anyone forward firm information on these colour questions? TIA.