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Re: An accurate rendition of MS 3? (RN Camouflage Color) |
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SovereignHobbies wrote: On the photo above, using the Seafire's Dark Slate Grey as the control colour which is about 113% of the colour saturation of the real paint's published colourspace values - i.e. it is too strong/intense an olive, it should be a little greyer than that photograph portrays it. If the Dark Slate Grey is oversaturated, then it's reasonable to assume the MS3 or G20 (given the dates of these photos are shortly after the new paints were promulgated and may or may not have needed repainting by this time). There is also this photo which is slightly different colour balance than the above one. Attachment: Indomitable3.jpg FWIW I think we're looking at B6 there on the island. However, others disagree and believe it's B5. The real issue with B6 is that we have, to my knowledge, 4 surviving references to tell us what B6 looked like. All more or less agree on the chroma or light reflectance value or the order of 25-30%, so lighter than MS3 / G20 but darker than 507C / G45. The trouble is that a surviving paper camouflage design sheet portraying B6 (which may or may not *actually* be B6) agrees rather well with file AD.29 - i.e. A.E. Schuill's x,y,z colour values for what he received from the existing paints to study for incorporation into the B & G series. They both show a light blue with moderate colour saturation resulting in a colour any sane person would casually describe as "light blue". The weakness of those are that we only assume they are B6 - but the design sheet might not actually be B6 and the colour we think is B6 in AD.29 is referred to as B.30 in that work which predates the official promulgation of the B&G series by half a year. So, both are good clues, but neither are proof in themselves. Then we have the other two references - a pair of surviving real paint samples. One is held in file ADM 212/124 at Kew, and the other is held by the Admiralty Library at Portsmouth. The providence of those chips is certain - the way they are stamped or glued onto thin leaf paper in a 1942 vintage document pretty much assures that they are what they say they are. The trouble is that whilst they closely resemble each other, they look nothing like any of these photos above nor the first pair of references I described. Both Kew and Portsmouth's samples are so unsaturated that any casual observer would describe them as "grey". Does that mean I believe the samples more than the first pair? No, it doesn't, as it happens. Whilst the formulations of B5, B6 etc are unknown, the favoured pigments used by the RN are known, and from the mid 1930s onwards we only see Ultramarine Blue used for blue colouring. Ultramarine is either natural lapis lazuli mineral ground down, or it's made synthetically. Acid in particular is well known to desaturate ultramarine leaving it a grey. Some manufacturing processes for paper leave them acidic, and both of those samples described above are painted onto card, not metal. B6 has caused me more hand wringing than the rest combined, frankly, but I personally believe AD.29's "B30" recorded by Schuill colourometer work was indeed a sample of B6. The belief that B6 was a light blue reconciles more conflicts with rational argument than does the belief that the 76 year old samples in Kew and Portsmouth are representative does. Degredation of ultramarine dominated paint on card stock can be explained with understood observational science. The existence of another enigmatic light blue of the same tone appearing in multiple forms in multiple places yet not being mentioned in writing in any of the surviving documents requires a lot more assumptions to be made than the facts support, in my opinion. If your new colour samples are correct then I would tent to agree it looks like the B6 from what I have seen posted in other threads and links to your website. The new B5 looks too dark for it to be that colour in my opinion. It is a shame there is very little information about it. In regards to the MS4A colour in the above photos that is the kind of colour I think would looks nice as the lightest tone on the Prince of Wales. I would describe it personally as more whitish than blue but still it is not pure white but not overly grey either. That is how it looks to me. [quote="SovereignHobbies"]On the photo above, using the Seafire's Dark Slate Grey as the control colour which is about 113% of the colour saturation of the real paint's published colourspace values - i.e. it is too strong/intense an olive, it should be a little greyer than that photograph portrays it. If the Dark Slate Grey is oversaturated, then it's reasonable to assume the MS3 or G20 (given the dates of these photos are shortly after the new paints were promulgated and may or may not have needed repainting by this time).
There is also this photo which is slightly different colour balance than the above one.
[attachment=0]Indomitable3.jpg[/attachment]
FWIW I think we're looking at B6 there on the island. However, others disagree and believe it's B5. The real issue with B6 is that we have, to my knowledge, 4 surviving references to tell us what B6 looked like. All more or less agree on the chroma or light reflectance value or the order of 25-30%, so lighter than MS3 / G20 but darker than 507C / G45. The trouble is that a surviving paper camouflage design sheet portraying B6 (which may or may not *actually* be B6) agrees rather well with file AD.29 - i.e. A.E. Schuill's x,y,z colour values for what he received from the existing paints to study for incorporation into the B & G series. They both show a light blue with moderate colour saturation resulting in a colour any sane person would casually describe as "light blue". The weakness of those are that we only assume they are B6 - but the design sheet might not actually be B6 and the colour we think is B6 in AD.29 is referred to as B.30 in that work which predates the official promulgation of the B&G series by half a year. So, both are good clues, but neither are proof in themselves.
Then we have the other two references - a pair of surviving real paint samples. One is held in file ADM 212/124 at Kew, and the other is held by the Admiralty Library at Portsmouth. The providence of those chips is certain - the way they are stamped or glued onto thin leaf paper in a 1942 vintage document pretty much assures that they are what they say they are. The trouble is that whilst they closely resemble each other, they look nothing like any of these photos above nor the first pair of references I described. Both Kew and Portsmouth's samples are so unsaturated that any casual observer would describe them as "grey".
Does that mean I believe the samples more than the first pair? No, it doesn't, as it happens. Whilst the formulations of B5, B6 etc are unknown, the favoured pigments used by the RN are known, and from the mid 1930s onwards we only see Ultramarine Blue used for blue colouring. Ultramarine is either natural lapis lazuli mineral ground down, or it's made synthetically. Acid in particular is well known to desaturate ultramarine leaving it a grey. Some manufacturing processes for paper leave them acidic, and both of those samples described above are painted onto card, not metal.
B6 has caused me more hand wringing than the rest combined, frankly, but I personally believe AD.29's "B30" recorded by Schuill colourometer work was indeed a sample of B6. The belief that B6 was a light blue reconciles more conflicts with rational argument than does the belief that the 76 year old samples in Kew and Portsmouth are representative does. Degredation of ultramarine dominated paint on card stock can be explained with understood observational science. The existence of another enigmatic light blue of the same tone appearing in multiple forms in multiple places yet not being mentioned in writing in any of the surviving documents requires a lot more assumptions to be made than the facts support, in my opinion.[/quote]
If your new colour samples are correct then I would tent to agree it looks like the B6 from what I have seen posted in other threads and links to your website. The new B5 looks too dark for it to be that colour in my opinion. It is a shame there is very little information about it.
In regards to the MS4A colour in the above photos that is the kind of colour I think would looks nice as the lightest tone on the Prince of Wales. I would describe it personally as more whitish than blue but still it is not pure white but not overly grey either. That is how it looks to me.
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Posted: Wed Apr 11, 2018 6:54 pm |
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Re: An accurate rendition of MS 3? (RN Camouflage Color) |
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On the photo above, using the Seafire's Dark Slate Grey as the control colour which is about 113% of the colour saturation of the real paint's published colourspace values - i.e. it is too strong/intense an olive, it should be a little greyer than that photograph portrays it. If the Dark Slate Grey is oversaturated, then it's reasonable to assume the MS3 or G20 (given the dates of these photos are shortly after the new paints were promulgated and may or may not have needed repainting by this time). There is also this photo which is slightly different colour balance than the above one. Attachment: Indomitable3.jpg FWIW I think we're looking at B6 there on the island. However, others disagree and believe it's B5. The real issue with B6 is that we have, to my knowledge, 4 surviving references to tell us what B6 looked like. All more or less agree on the chroma or light reflectance value or the order of 25-30%, so lighter than MS3 / G20 but darker than 507C / G45. The trouble is that a surviving paper camouflage design sheet portraying B6 (which may or may not *actually* be B6) agrees rather well with file AD.29 - i.e. PRS' x,y,z colour values for what they received from the existing paints to study for incorporation into the B & G series. They both show a light blue with moderate colour saturation resulting in a colour any sane person would casually describe as "light blue". The weakness of those are that we only assume they are B6 - but the design sheet might not actually be B6 and the colour we think is B6 in AD.29 is referred to as B.30 in that work which predates the official promulgation of the B&G series by half a year. So, both are good clues, but neither are proof in themselves. Then we have the other two references - a pair of surviving real paint samples. One is held in file ADM 212/124 at Kew, and the other is held by the Admiralty Library at Portsmouth. The providence of those chips is certain - the way they are stamped or glued onto thin leaf paper in a 1942 vintage document pretty much assures that they are what they say they are. The trouble is that whilst they closely resemble each other, they look nothing like any of these photos above nor the first pair of references I described. Both Kew and Portsmouth's samples are so unsaturated that any casual observer would describe them as "grey". Does that mean I believe the samples more than the first pair? No, it doesn't, as it happens. Whilst the formulations of B5, B6 etc are unknown, the favoured pigments used by the RN are known, and from the mid 1930s onwards we only see Ultramarine Blue used for blue colouring. Ultramarine is either natural lapis lazuli mineral ground down, or it's made synthetically. Acid in particular is well known to desaturate ultramarine leaving it a grey. Some manufacturing processes for paper leave them acidic, and both of those samples described above are painted onto card, not metal. B6 has caused me more hand wringing than the rest combined, frankly, but I personally believe AD.29's "B30" recorded by PRS colourometer work was indeed a sample of B6. The belief that B6 was a light blue reconciles more conflicts with rational argument than does the belief that the 76 year old samples in Kew and Portsmouth are representative does. Degredation of ultramarine dominated paint on card stock can be explained with understood observational science. The existence of another enigmatic light blue of the same tone appearing in multiple forms in multiple places yet not being mentioned in writing in any of the surviving documents requires a lot more assumptions to be made than the facts support, in my opinion. On the photo above, using the Seafire's Dark Slate Grey as the control colour which is about 113% of the colour saturation of the real paint's published colourspace values - i.e. it is too strong/intense an olive, it should be a little greyer than that photograph portrays it. If the Dark Slate Grey is oversaturated, then it's reasonable to assume the MS3 or G20 (given the dates of these photos are shortly after the new paints were promulgated and may or may not have needed repainting by this time).
There is also this photo which is slightly different colour balance than the above one.
[attachment=0]Indomitable3.jpg[/attachment]
FWIW I think we're looking at B6 there on the island. However, others disagree and believe it's B5. The real issue with B6 is that we have, to my knowledge, 4 surviving references to tell us what B6 looked like. All more or less agree on the chroma or light reflectance value or the order of 25-30%, so lighter than MS3 / G20 but darker than 507C / G45. The trouble is that a surviving paper camouflage design sheet portraying B6 (which may or may not *actually* be B6) agrees rather well with file AD.29 - i.e. PRS' x,y,z colour values for what they received from the existing paints to study for incorporation into the B & G series. They both show a light blue with moderate colour saturation resulting in a colour any sane person would casually describe as "light blue". The weakness of those are that we only assume they are B6 - but the design sheet might not actually be B6 and the colour we think is B6 in AD.29 is referred to as B.30 in that work which predates the official promulgation of the B&G series by half a year. So, both are good clues, but neither are proof in themselves.
Then we have the other two references - a pair of surviving real paint samples. One is held in file ADM 212/124 at Kew, and the other is held by the Admiralty Library at Portsmouth. The providence of those chips is certain - the way they are stamped or glued onto thin leaf paper in a 1942 vintage document pretty much assures that they are what they say they are. The trouble is that whilst they closely resemble each other, they look nothing like any of these photos above nor the first pair of references I described. Both Kew and Portsmouth's samples are so unsaturated that any casual observer would describe them as "grey".
Does that mean I believe the samples more than the first pair? No, it doesn't, as it happens. Whilst the formulations of B5, B6 etc are unknown, the favoured pigments used by the RN are known, and from the mid 1930s onwards we only see Ultramarine Blue used for blue colouring. Ultramarine is either natural lapis lazuli mineral ground down, or it's made synthetically. Acid in particular is well known to desaturate ultramarine leaving it a grey. Some manufacturing processes for paper leave them acidic, and both of those samples described above are painted onto card, not metal.
B6 has caused me more hand wringing than the rest combined, frankly, but I personally believe AD.29's "B30" recorded by PRS colourometer work was indeed a sample of B6. The belief that B6 was a light blue reconciles more conflicts with rational argument than does the belief that the 76 year old samples in Kew and Portsmouth are representative does. Degredation of ultramarine dominated paint on card stock can be explained with understood observational science. The existence of another enigmatic light blue of the same tone appearing in multiple forms in multiple places yet not being mentioned in writing in any of the surviving documents requires a lot more assumptions to be made than the facts support, in my opinion.
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Posted: Wed Apr 11, 2018 2:51 am |
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Re: An accurate rendition of MS 3? (RN Camouflage Color) |
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EJFoeth wrote: Can you please tell me what you think the blue colour is on the island structure? [quote="EJFoeth"]More of the same carrier.
https://www.gettyimages.nl/detail/nieuwsfoto's/supermarine-seafire-aircraft-on-a-british-aircraft-nieuwsfotos/3310965#/circa-1940-a-supermarine-seafire-aircraft-on-a-british-aircraft-picture-id3310965[/quote]
Can you please tell me what you think the blue colour is on the island structure?
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Posted: Tue Apr 10, 2018 6:58 pm |
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Re: An accurate rendition of MS 3? (RN Camouflage Color) |
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Thanks all!!!
This is the kind of discussion and give and take I was hoping to provoke. Very enlightening.
Thanks for all who contributed, and to those who posted the additional photos. They are fantastic!
Mike E...
Thanks all!!!
This is the kind of discussion and give and take I was hoping to provoke. Very enlightening.
Thanks for all who contributed, and to those who posted the additional photos. They are fantastic!
Mike E...
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Posted: Tue Apr 10, 2018 7:28 am |
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Re: An accurate rendition of MS 3? (RN Camouflage Color) |
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More of the same carrier.
https://www.gettyimages.nl/detail/nieuwsfoto's/supermarine-seafire-aircraft-on-a-british-aircraft-nieuwsfotos/3310965#/circa-1940-a-supermarine-seafire-aircraft-on-a-british-aircraft-picture-id3310965
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Posted: Tue Apr 10, 2018 6:21 am |
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Re: An accurate rendition of MS 3? (RN Camouflage Color) |
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EJFoeth wrote: These images displayed on the website of the image extortion and hostage company Getty are quite nice; I've not seen these in the IWM TR series.
Both MS3 and MS4a seem to be a bit lighter than in your document; but if these colours are not too far off then MS4A as the lightest colour in HMS PoW seems to be by far the best choice with the version of MS3 we see here as an excellent candidate for the green tone (and not MS4). Well, let's call that eye-ball perfect. They do appear quite light, but I think that is a combination of all the reasons why photographs are never to be fully trusted, along with the biological reasons why small size swatches of colour look darker than real objects painted in the same colours; particularly if those swatches have a white background. The little Home Fleet Grey swatch I posted photos of looks very dark (dark enough to seriously worry Richard) on a 5cm square cutting, but on a 50cm wide wooden board it looks a different colour. [quote="EJFoeth"]These images displayed on the website of the image extortion and hostage company Getty are quite nice; I've not seen these in the IWM TR series.
Both MS3 and MS4a seem to be a bit lighter than in your document; but if these colours are not too far off then MS4A as the lightest colour in HMS PoW seems to be by far the best choice with the version of MS3 we see here as an excellent candidate for the green tone (and not MS4). Well, let's call that eye-ball perfect.[/quote]
They do appear quite light, but I think that is a combination of all the reasons why photographs are never to be fully trusted, along with the biological reasons why small size swatches of colour look darker than real objects painted in the same colours; particularly if those swatches have a white background.
The little Home Fleet Grey swatch I posted photos of looks very dark (dark enough to seriously worry Richard) on a 5cm square cutting, but on a 50cm wide wooden board it looks a different colour.
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Posted: Tue Apr 10, 2018 5:10 am |
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Re: An accurate rendition of MS 3? (RN Camouflage Color) |
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These images displayed on the website of the image extortion and hostage company Getty are quite nice; I've not seen these in the IWM TR series.
Both MS3 and MS4a seem to be a bit lighter than in your document; but if these colours are not too far off then MS4A as the lightest colour in HMS PoW seems to be by far the best choice with the version of MS3 we see here as an excellent candidate for the green tone (and not MS4). Well, let's call that eye-ball perfect.
These images displayed on the website of the image extortion and hostage company Getty are quite nice; I've not seen these in the IWM TR series.
Both MS3 and MS4a seem to be a bit lighter than in your document; but if these colours are not too far off then MS4A as the lightest colour in HMS PoW seems to be by far the best choice with the version of MS3 we see here as an excellent candidate for the green tone (and not MS4). Well, let's call that eye-ball perfect.
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Posted: Tue Apr 10, 2018 4:49 am |
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Re: An accurate rendition of MS 3? (RN Camouflage Color) |
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Sutho wrote: Mike E. wrote: And does this photo of RN submarine depot ship HMS Forth with Canadian submarine HMCS Surf show a small, irregular patch of MS3 on the hull of Forth (behind the machine gun platform abaft the sail of HMCS Surf)? https://www.flickr.com/photos/8270787@N ... 269786717/Inquiring minds want to know... Mike E. Do you have further information on this photo? Is it real colour or is it colourised by artists? It's part of a series by one of the RN's official photographers. The IWM holds at least most of them. This one here is probably the best in terms of showing shades we think we can recognise: I think this one shows MS3 and MS4A as the lightest two. The darkest two are less obvious. I lean towards them being MS1 and 507A, but I struggle to completely convince myself the darkest is MS1. If it isn't MS1 but instead 507A, then I can't think what the second darkest grey could be. https://www.gettyimages.com/detail/news-photo/view-of-royal-navy-submarines-of-the-3rd-flotilla-or-news-photo/781839961I think this one shows 507A against MS4A https://www.gettyimages.fr/detail/photo-d'actualit%C3%A9/view-of-crew-members-supervising-a-21-inch-torpedo-photo-dactualit%C3%A9/781840955This one might show another bit of MS3 and MS4A but it's less clear cut IMHO. https://www.gettyimages.com.au/license/781840957[quote="Sutho"][quote="Mike E."]And does this photo of RN submarine depot ship HMS Forth with Canadian submarine HMCS Surf show a small, irregular patch of MS3 on the hull of Forth (behind the machine gun platform abaft the sail of HMCS Surf)?
https://www.flickr.com/photos/8270787@N07/17334075225/in/album-72157605269786717/
Inquiring minds want to know...
Mike E.[/quote]
Do you have further information on this photo? Is it real colour or is it colourised by artists?[/quote]
It's part of a series by one of the RN's official photographers. The IWM holds at least most of them.
This one here is probably the best in terms of showing shades we think we can recognise:
I think this one shows MS3 and MS4A as the lightest two. The darkest two are less obvious. I lean towards them being MS1 and 507A, but I struggle to completely convince myself the darkest is MS1. If it isn't MS1 but instead 507A, then I can't think what the second darkest grey could be.
[url]https://www.gettyimages.com/detail/news-photo/view-of-royal-navy-submarines-of-the-3rd-flotilla-or-news-photo/781839961[/url]
I think this one shows 507A against MS4A
[url]https://www.gettyimages.fr/detail/photo-d'actualit%C3%A9/view-of-crew-members-supervising-a-21-inch-torpedo-photo-dactualit%C3%A9/781840955[/url]
This one might show another bit of MS3 and MS4A but it's less clear cut IMHO.
[url]https://www.gettyimages.com.au/license/781840957[/url]
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Posted: Tue Apr 10, 2018 4:22 am |
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Re: An accurate rendition of MS 3? (RN Camouflage Color) |
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Just wondering about "that other camouflage discussion". HMS Biter shows a 4-tone scheme (B6-ish at the bow) and if the main gray is AP507C and the lightest tone MS4a then we have excellent agreement... (if she's not painted in US colours! But not: https://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/item/object/30018240) Just wondering about "that other camouflage discussion". HMS Biter shows a 4-tone scheme (B6-ish at the bow) and if the main gray is AP507C and the lightest tone MS4a then we have excellent agreement...
(if she's not painted in US colours! But not: https://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/item/object/30018240)
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Posted: Mon Apr 09, 2018 3:51 am |
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Re: An accurate rendition of MS 3? (RN Camouflage Color) |
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EJFoeth wrote: Dare I ask: what about the lightest colour on HMS Biter? Hard to say isn't it? Not knowing which paint series it even is doesn't help. I'd suggest it can't be G55 because the timing is wrong. If it's wearing paint from before AFO2106/43 then the lightest shade could be MS4A, or possibly 507C. It's not easy though - as above - the whole photo is a bit off even though it looks like a good quality. [quote="EJFoeth"]Dare I ask: what about the lightest colour on HMS Biter?[/quote]
Hard to say isn't it? Not knowing which paint series it even is doesn't help. I'd suggest it can't be G55 because the timing is wrong. If it's wearing paint from before AFO2106/43 then the lightest shade could be MS4A, or possibly 507C.
It's not easy though - as above - the whole photo is a bit off even though it looks like a good quality.
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Posted: Mon Apr 09, 2018 3:43 am |
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Re: An accurate rendition of MS 3? (RN Camouflage Color) |
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Dare I ask: what about the lightest colour on HMS Biter?
Dare I ask: what about the lightest colour on HMS Biter?
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Posted: Mon Apr 09, 2018 2:55 am |
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Re: An accurate rendition of MS 3? (RN Camouflage Color) |
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I really don't see any greenish caste at all on HMS Biter there, and this photograph is not new to me - I think what you see there is B6 or B30. It's hard to say for sure which series we're looking at, because the date of the photographs is late spring 1943 as far as my enquiries have led me. It's therefore not certain whether these ships are wearing the new paint or the old paint.
What I can say (and back up with figures) is that the other photographs taken in the same series (including showing the island of HMS Indomitable in strong olive and bright blue) are over saturated. Colour fidelity was not a strong point of WW2 era colour camera film. I know it's over saturated because the exact shades of the Temperate Sea Scheme colours on the Seafires are well understood, and digital sampling of the Seafires returns consistently oversaturated Dark Slate Grey as compared to the real saturation figures.
HMS Forth, I'm not sure. Both elcejay from here and myself have had a go at that and nothing quite seems to fit numerically.
I really don't see any greenish caste at all on HMS Biter there, and this photograph is not new to me - I think what you see there is B6 or B30. It's hard to say for sure which series we're looking at, because the date of the photographs is late spring 1943 as far as my enquiries have led me. It's therefore not certain whether these ships are wearing the new paint or the old paint.
What I can say (and back up with figures) is that the other photographs taken in the same series (including showing the island of HMS Indomitable in strong olive and bright blue) are over saturated. Colour fidelity was not a strong point of WW2 era colour camera film. I know it's over saturated because the exact shades of the Temperate Sea Scheme colours on the Seafires [i]are[/i] well understood, and digital sampling of the Seafires returns consistently oversaturated Dark Slate Grey as compared to the real saturation figures.
HMS Forth, I'm not sure. Both elcejay from here and myself have had a go at that and nothing quite seems to fit numerically.
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Posted: Mon Apr 09, 2018 2:01 am |
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Re: An accurate rendition of MS 3? (RN Camouflage Color) |
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Mike E. wrote: And does this photo of RN submarine depot ship HMS Forth with Canadian submarine HMCS Surf show a small, irregular patch of MS3 on the hull of Forth (behind the machine gun platform abaft the sail of HMCS Surf)? https://www.flickr.com/photos/8270787@N ... 269786717/Inquiring minds want to know... Mike E. Do you have further information on this photo? Is it real colour or is it colourised by artists? [quote="Mike E."]And does this photo of RN submarine depot ship HMS Forth with Canadian submarine HMCS Surf show a small, irregular patch of MS3 on the hull of Forth (behind the machine gun platform abaft the sail of HMCS Surf)?
https://www.flickr.com/photos/8270787@N07/17334075225/in/album-72157605269786717/
Inquiring minds want to know...
Mike E.[/quote]
Do you have further information on this photo? Is it real colour or is it colourised by artists?
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Posted: Sun Apr 08, 2018 6:45 pm |
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An accurate rendition of MS 3? (RN Camouflage Color) |
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And here is another picture of HMS Forth showing an irregular MS3 panel wrapping around her stern? https://goo.gl/images/4j2kixMike E. And here is another picture of HMS Forth showing an irregular MS3 panel wrapping around her stern?
https://goo.gl/images/4j2kix
Mike E.
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Posted: Sun Apr 08, 2018 3:50 pm |
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Re: An accurate rendition of MS 3? (RN Camouflage Color) |
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And does this photo of RN submarine depot ship HMS Forth with Canadian submarine HMCS Surf show a small, irregular patch of MS3 on the hull of Forth (behind the machine gun platform abaft the sail of HMCS Surf)? https://www.flickr.com/photos/8270787@N ... 269786717/Inquiring minds want to know... Mike E. And does this photo of RN submarine depot ship HMS Forth with Canadian submarine HMCS Surf show a small, irregular patch of MS3 on the hull of Forth (behind the machine gun platform abaft the sail of HMCS Surf)?
https://www.flickr.com/photos/8270787@N07/17334075225/in/album-72157605269786717/
Inquiring minds want to know...
Mike E.
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Posted: Sun Apr 08, 2018 8:37 am |
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Post subject: |
Re: An accurate rendition of MS 3? (RN Camouflage Color) |
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Tim:
Right you are about port/starboard. My confirmed landlubber credentials are showing--or maybe I'm just developing a case of late-onset dylsexia... (yes, that's meant to be misspelled--a feeble attempt at a joke...)!
Thanks for your comments, and looking forward to hear from others on the likelihood that this is MS3.
Best,
Mike E.
Tim:
Right you are about port/starboard. My confirmed landlubber credentials are showing--or maybe I'm just developing a case of late-onset dylsexia... (yes, that's meant to be misspelled--a feeble attempt at a joke...)!
Thanks for your comments, and looking forward to hear from others on the likelihood that this is MS3.
Best,
Mike E.
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Posted: Sun Apr 08, 2018 3:25 am |
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Post subject: |
Re: An accurate rendition of MS 3? (RN Camouflage Color) |
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I won't profess to be an expert on colour (or color!) accuracy through the process of photography/developing/ageing/copying/scanning/screening, but the configuration and camouflage pattern of the CVE shown matches HMS BITER. Of the three RN ships with their RDF mast separate from the island, and a single medium AA gun aft, she was the only one I have seen photographed with that pattern camouflage.
As an aside, the CVE is on the PORT side of INDOMITABLE - the catapult track is visible under Seafires 6.N and 6 (?).L
I won't profess to be an expert on colour (or color!) accuracy through the process of photography/developing/ageing/copying/scanning/screening, but the configuration and camouflage pattern of the CVE shown matches HMS BITER. Of the three RN ships with their RDF mast separate from the island, and a single medium AA gun aft, she was the only one I have seen photographed with that pattern camouflage.
As an aside, the CVE is on the PORT side of INDOMITABLE - the catapult track is visible under Seafires 6.N and 6 (?).L
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Posted: Sun Apr 08, 2018 2:42 am |
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Post subject: |
An accurate rendition of MS 3? (RN Camouflage Color) |
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All: In light of the ongoing discussion about RN camouflage in WWII, I was wondering what the board members think about the intermediate gray-green color worn by the escort carrier off the port of HMS Indomitable in this photo, as a reasonably accurate representation of what MS 3 "looked" like (at least under certain light conditions)? https://www.flickr.com/photos/8270787@N ... 269786717/Thoughts? Best, Mike E. All:
In light of the ongoing discussion about RN camouflage in WWII, I was wondering what the board members think about the intermediate gray-green color worn by the escort carrier off the port of HMS Indomitable in this photo, as a reasonably accurate representation of what MS 3 "looked" like (at least under certain light conditions)?
https://www.flickr.com/photos/8270787@N07/16636868203/in/album-72157605269786717/
Thoughts?
Best,
Mike E.
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Posted: Sun Apr 08, 2018 12:45 am |
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