The Ship Model Forum

Last weeks:

"Restoring HMS Caroline to a single moment in time was a challenge as she retained many features from almost 100 years of service

Priority was given to structures from WW1, but also those representing her years in Belfast".

[url=https://postimg.cc/nMh1dGFQ][img]https://i.postimg.cc/v8WSZ0CX/image.jpg[/img][/url]

[url=https://postimg.cc/dk4jsLB1][img]https://i.postimg.cc/HnCZtM8Q/image.jpg[/img][/url]

[url=https://postimg.cc/jn2QLtgh][img]https://i.postimg.cc/SR7Z1KcH/image.jpg[/img][/url]

More false bow waves (some on one-colour hulls, others on patterned schemes): HM Ships Enterprise, Fernie, Resolution, Southampton, Esk, Kipling, Gloxinia

[quote="Rick E Davis"]

An aside, was the use of a false bow wave a common addition to RN camo early in WWII? I don't recall seeing any other images of RN ships with false bow waves.

Rick[/quote]

It seems to have been feature amongst ships of the Nore and Dover Commands. Off the top of my head I can think of Coventry, Codrington, Brazen, Wivern and the destroyers of the 1st Flotilla Gallant, Glowworm*, Grafton, Griffin, Greyhound, Burza, Blyskawica, & Grom.

* No clear photo so some may dispute this!

Tim(?),

Thanks for your reply. I had meant to add a question as if this image was indeed HMS CALCUTTA, since erroneous ID's are common in online searches. But, you noted it anyway, thanks. I'll have to use the other image for the false wave. Determining other details in that image is limited. Thanks for the notes about items installed/not installed. The Raven and Robert's and Friedman's books on RN cruisers have a lot of info and even some nice images and drawing of HMS CALCUTTA as completed. Plus I see that HMS CARIO and HMS CALCUTTA were "modified at same time" sisters. But, what changes "could" have occurred to HMS CALCUTTA before the Norway Campaign was fuzzy.

An aside, was the use of a false bow wave a common addition to RN camo early in WWII? I don't recall seeing any other images of RN ships with false bow waves.

Rick

The photo attached to Rick's post shows HMS Cairo - Calcutta had a splinter shield on the for'd edge of "B" gundeck, not present in the photo. The photo of Calcutta posted by Dick (almost certainly in a Norwegian fjord) shows a differently-shaped false bow wave (admittedly such things could be changed).

As for Calcutta's configuration off Norway, see posts in this thread from October 2020. It appears that Calcutta was never fitted with RDF (radar), and she only had one HA.DCT (Part D7); the after one (Part D12) was never fitted (see my post of Mon Oct 19, 2020 2:54 pm in this thread).

I picked up the Trumpeter 1/700 scale HMS CALCUTTA kit and I had planned to build it largely out-of-the-box as a quick build. I have had an interest in the modifications of these old WWI era cruisers to an AA mission. However I have ended up with some questions due to my lack of experience in building RN subjects. In researching it appears that the kits configuration fits her "as completion of AA mods". From what I could tell HMS CALCUTTA basically was in the kit configuration during the 1940 Norway campaign and prior to transfer to the Med. I actually found her appearance and service during the Norway Campaign was more appealing to me. The image posted by Dick really convinced me to model my HMS CALCUTTA for this 1940 time frame. The relatively simple camo of 507A "Home Fleet" with the addition of false bow waves being a straight forward scheme rather than a Med scheme. I found another image (thanks to Alamay) of HMS CALCUTTA during an online search. See attached. But neither image verifies her configuration in 1940 operating off Norway.

There are several nice images of HMS CALCUTTA as completed in 1939 and before being painted in camo. I'm assuming this was close to her configuration in 1940 off Norway.

The Trumpeter kit seems to have a few "extra" parts (maybe used on one of the other C-class AA kits), so I'm wanting to verify what parts need to be used. I plan on getting Black Cat 3-D weapons as replacements. I can't make out if she had any radar in 1940 while operating off Norway (reference books seem to say unknown). I have found many of the parts Trumpeter has in this kit to be very small and lack detail and I can't figure out what they are suppose to represent or why didn't they simply mold them on the larger parts? I remember the criticism that Dragon 1/350 scale kits got for having too many tiny parts (and their horrible instructions criticism which is well deserved). Well the parts in this 1/700 scale kit are way worse to deal with, many no more that short pieces of rod (I have lost several in trying to attach them and without extra parts to replace these lost parts, that I refuse to try and replace them with small cut rod pieces).

[url=https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/p303/TincanREDavis/tempImagefwVk6P.heic?width=1920&height=1080&fit=bounds][img]https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/p303/TincanREDavis/tempImagefwVk6P.heic?width=1920&height=1080&fit=bounds[/img][/url]

Any comments appreciated.

Rick

Hello,
I would like to thank Dick for the information and for the great photo especially. It will help a lot during my ship construction.

[quote="Rambousek"]... HMS Calcutta .... Does anyone know what color was used during the fighting in Norway?....[/quote]

Looks like well weathered Home Fleet grey to me ie 507A with a significant amount of white false bow wave, a further bit of side wave and maybe a bit of stern wave too!
[attachment=0]Calcutta c1940 4 ish Norway.jpg[/attachment]

Greetings to all fans of C-class cruisers.
I was reading previous posts on the forum and there was a discussion about the tricolor camouflage of the HMS Calcutta from the period of deployment in the Mediterranean. Does anyone know what color was used during the fighting in Norway? It was a single color camouflage apparently - most likely 507A or a mix of 507A and 507C. Profile Morskie and Malcolm Wright state the color as 507B - so a mix (Malcom even claims there was a white wool on the bow) but these are very old sources. Does anyone have more up to date information?
Thanks in advance for any information.

[quote="TomRigg17"]Checking my 'Black Cat' 3D mounts they're the same. Could be rectified by moving the trunnion point forward somehow I suppose, but I'll not elevate them too much to make it not as noticeable.
Tom[/quote]
Ah ok, so I guess it is a scale problem because of downscalling the real one by factor 350. I did not found a photo of a the real one with 80� elevation. But anyhow, I will have a look at the Mirco Master parts and then I'll see see what to do.

[quote="Tracy White"]They look like modified 3D printed mounts - whose are they if so?[/quote]

Hi Tracy, these are after market 4" mounts from North Star Models. They are made of resin, brass and PE parts.

https://www.scalemates.com/kits/north-star-models-nsa350057-2-pcs-royal-navy-4-inch-102-cm-mark-xvi-guns-in-twin-mounting--1102762

For a couple of years ago they were top notch and still are a big improvement of most kit parts. But as replied to Tom, I am looking forward to get my hands on Micro Master 4" mounts. Regarding the accessories I got from them so far they are most excellent in any aspect.

[quote="TomRigg17"]It does indeed, thank you Christian.
Exactly what I was looking for and what I've done.
Tom
FYI: the max. elevation of the 4" guns was 80 degrees. The mounts in your pic look to be at max. elevation (barrels virtually touching the tops of the shield cut outs) but are no-where near 80 degrees.[/quote]

Hello Tom, glad I could help a bit :smallsmile:

Yes I know and I was indeed not happy with the result. Meanwhile I set the elevation to a more or less horizontal level. I have 4" twin mounts from Micro Master on order and will look if they fit much better for a high angle elevation. The North Star Models are quite nice, but I think the Micro Master will be a big improvement in detail and correctness.

Feel free to have a look at my WIP here on MW.
http://www.shipmodels.info/mws_forum/viewtopic.php?f=59&t=315015

Checking my 'Black Cat' 3D mounts they're the same. Could be rectified by moving the trunnion point forward somehow I suppose, but I'll not elevate them too much to make it not as noticeable.
Tom

They look like modified 3D printed mounts - whose are they if so?

It does indeed, thank you Christian.
Exactly what I was looking for and what I've done.
Tom
FYI: the max. elevation of the 4" guns was 80 degrees. The mounts in your pic look to be at max. elevation (barrels virtually touching the tops of the shield cut outs) but are no-where near 80 degrees.

[quote="TomRigg17"]Can anyone tell me the dimensions (and pics if possible) of the splinter shielding installed around the gun mounts.
Thanks to all
Tom[/quote]
Good evening,
I am working on HMS Cairo in scale 1:350, as a basic I use the Trumpeter kit. I want to present HMS Cairo in her late 1941 configuration. She had splinter shields on all four 4" gun mount positions. According to the few photos I have found the I decide to made them from 0,2mm styrene 4mm high. IMHO that looks quite acceptable. I hope that helps.

Can anyone tell me the dimensions (and pics if possible) of the splinter shielding installed around the gun mounts.
Thanks to all
Tom

Get the 4in ready use lockers too. My order arrived at week and they are simply superb. Far superior to the plastic parts and any photoetch lockers I've used.

David - not sure I understand the question. I have a list of boats provided in the [url=https://profilemorskie.com/]Profile Morskie Calcutta book[/url] that I typed out earlier [url=http://www.shipmodels.info/mws_forum/viewtopic.php?f=48&t=93153&p=927204#p924446]here[/url] that looks fairly similar, if that's what you mean. Here is the full list of items I'm planning on buying or have already, for those who may be wanting to do similar in the future:

[b]Boats:[/b]
32' Cutter x 1 ([url=https://micromaster.co.nz/collections/royal-navy-ships-boats/products/1-350-royal-navy-32ft-life-cutters-x2]Micromaster[/url])
32' Motorboat x 1
27' Whaler x 2 ([url=https://micromaster.co.nz/collections/royal-navy-ships-boats/products/1-350-royal-navy-27ft-whalers-x2]Micromaster[/url])
15' Dinghy x 2 ([url=https://micromaster.co.nz/collections/royal-navy-ships-boats/products/1-350-royal-navy-14ft-drifter-dinghys-x4]Micromaster[/url])

No one makes the 32' motorboat as far as I have been able to find at this point and the drawings reference a 15' dinghy and I've only been able to find 14' and 16' dinghies. The Micromaster 14' drifter dinghies look the closest to what I see in the Profile Morskie book, so barring a better reference coming around I've decided to go that route.

[b]Arms[/b]
HACS Mk III - [url=https://micromaster.co.nz/collections/royal-fire-control/products/1-350-royal-navy-hacs-mkiii-x4-1]Micromaster[/url], who also has a [url=https://micromaster.co.nz/collections/royal-fire-control/products/1-350-royal-navy-hacs-mkiii-covered-x4]covered version[/url], but since I'm using uncovered boats I figured I'd go with an uncovered fire control director as well
4" Mk XVI guns - [url=https://micromaster.co.nz/collections/royal-navy-weapons/products/1-350-royal-navy-4-45-10-2cm-qf-mkxvi-mkxix-twin-mounts-x4]Micromaster[/url]
Quad pom pom - [url=https://blackcatmodels.eu/en/weapons/127-2-pdr-pom-pom-mkviii-gun-on-quad-mount-mkvii-x3.html]Black Cat Models[/url]
Quad Vickers - [url=https://micromaster.co.nz/collections/royal-navy-weapons/products/1-350-royal-navy-quad-vickers-0-50-62-12-7mm-mg-mkiii-no-shield-x12]Micromaster[/url]

I haven't looked into other details such as searchlights and rafts yet.

Is there any hard and fast rule to where Corticene would be used - i.e. was there any on Calcutta such as the bridge?

I've got two of the four boat types so far and a third on order - the fourth isn't offered yet. I am quite happy with what I've seen so far so thanks again for the earlier recommendations.