by GregoryC » Tue Sep 22, 2026 9:52 pm
Yeah, a red circle is particularly wild to me, given its connotations with Japanese warships, but there it is on the film on the Honolulu. I still look at it, and am surprised by it. Brazen is a pretty perfect word to describe it given Allied tendencies to shoot at anything with a red circle.
As for the Helena, it is a small detail in the photos, but it seems to me that the periscope(?)/tube on the top of the turret is painted in the dark green of the turret stripes in the July 1942 photo, which is noticeably darker than the 5-N navy blue in the July 1942 photo. If you look at the Late 42/early 43 photo, the number 2 turret that would have the turret stripes has a noticeably darker periscope than the other two turrets, which indicates to me that the turret itself has the full turret stripes, and not just the life rafts retailing that coloration. This is further evidenced to be by the fact that her squadron mate Honolulu also seems to be using turret markings.
It also seems odd to me that the turret would be painted into regular camouflage but the life rafts left alone. I can't see a lot of captains letting nonstandard painting like that go, especially when its in full view of the bridge every day.
Is the evidence perfect? No, but between the life rafts still bearing the turret markings, and the periscope thing also seemingly bearing the dark green color, I am inclined to think she has the full turret markings in this photo
My current theory is that, they may have been painted out (as seen in the photo from AWM that was posted), and then readded at a later point. The video I posted above with the Helena, St. Louis, and Honolulu exercising together before the Battle of Kula Gulf shows particular attention to their use of seaplanes. Given the difficultly in telling sister ships apart, that would be a possible reason for why they may have been re-added to help the seaplanes find their home ship, if indeed they were painted out and then painted back on. At this point my biggest question is were the turret markings on the Helena during the First Naval Battle of Guadalcanal (the time frame I want to depict Helena in my build), or was this something that was added later, before Kula Gulf, when St. Louis, Helena, and Honolulu were operating under Ainsworth as a squadron?
As a personal take, I don’t think turret markings distract too terribly much from the camouflage, as camouflage from what I can tell is not to make the ship invisible to the eye, but rather harder to spot and target, and from the distance that it would actually make a difference, the white and green or red would mostly if not entirely blend into the rest of the color. We generally are used to close up pictures where stuff like that stands out, but from a range, I question if it would make much of a difference.
There could be an issue with it helping dive bombers have a target in an attack, but I am not sure how much of one, as a ship making speed is already going to be silhouetting itself on a white outline.
Yes, the USN phased out turret markings for a reason, but it would seem at least to me a few of them used turret markings much farther into the war than I would have ever guessed. I was pretty shocked when I noticed the life rafts and seemingly to me the whole turret top in the photo still bore the turret stripes.
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Yeah, a red circle is particularly wild to me, given its connotations with Japanese warships, but there it is on the film on the Honolulu. I still look at it, and am surprised by it. Brazen is a pretty perfect word to describe it given Allied tendencies to shoot at anything with a red circle.
As for the Helena, it is a small detail in the photos, but it seems to me that the periscope(?)/tube on the top of the turret is painted in the dark green of the turret stripes in the July 1942 photo, which is noticeably darker than the 5-N navy blue in the July 1942 photo. If you look at the Late 42/early 43 photo, the number 2 turret that would have the turret stripes has a noticeably darker periscope than the other two turrets, which indicates to me that the turret itself has the full turret stripes, and not just the life rafts retailing that coloration. This is further evidenced to be by the fact that her squadron mate Honolulu also seems to be using turret markings.
It also seems odd to me that the turret would be painted into regular camouflage but the life rafts left alone. I can't see a lot of captains letting nonstandard painting like that go, especially when its in full view of the bridge every day.
Is the evidence perfect? No, but between the life rafts still bearing the turret markings, and the periscope thing also seemingly bearing the dark green color, I am inclined to think she has the full turret markings in this photo
My current theory is that, they may have been painted out (as seen in the photo from AWM that was posted), and then readded at a later point. The video I posted above with the Helena, St. Louis, and Honolulu exercising together before the Battle of Kula Gulf shows particular attention to their use of seaplanes. Given the difficultly in telling sister ships apart, that would be a possible reason for why they may have been re-added to help the seaplanes find their home ship, if indeed they were painted out and then painted back on. At this point my biggest question is were the turret markings on the Helena during the First Naval Battle of Guadalcanal (the time frame I want to depict Helena in my build), or was this something that was added later, before Kula Gulf, when St. Louis, Helena, and Honolulu were operating under Ainsworth as a squadron?
As a personal take, I don’t think turret markings distract too terribly much from the camouflage, as camouflage from what I can tell is not to make the ship invisible to the eye, but rather harder to spot and target, and from the distance that it would actually make a difference, the white and green or red would mostly if not entirely blend into the rest of the color. We generally are used to close up pictures where stuff like that stands out, but from a range, I question if it would make much of a difference.
There could be an issue with it helping dive bombers have a target in an attack, but I am not sure how much of one, as a ship making speed is already going to be silhouetting itself on a white outline.
Yes, the USN phased out turret markings for a reason, but it would seem at least to me a few of them used turret markings much farther into the war than I would have ever guessed. I was pretty shocked when I noticed the life rafts and seemingly to me the whole turret top in the photo still bore the turret stripes.