The Ship Model Forum

Hello ship-builders!!

I have been building ships for awhile ( and even before being a part of 'ModelWarships' ), but I would like to share a YT link on a "How To..." on rigging ships!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o6e-A1tiIOo

This video, I hope, will be Helpful for those who are wondering about the different types of rigging lines for ships. I used two (2) different brands... Mig rigging and ModelKasten, both have been useful in my (at the time of this post) three (3) ships that I have used these products.

I show how to attach lines to make signal flag lines through narration and stills and with the help of my daughter using video.

Let me know what you think.

M. Mares

I have been working with ultrafine lycra rigging for several years now (off and on) at 1/700 scale. I would emphasize that keeping one end on the spool when running lines is very useful, and it has helped me a lot!

What I have discovered in the past six months is how useful it can be to put a little bit of masking tape on the free end of the rigging line, especially when you need to thread it through tight space. I cut a short segment of yellow masking tape and fold it over the end of the thread (so no sticky part is exposed). It is much easier to pass this from one needle-nozed tweezer to another when running the thread through gaps (compared to trying to snag the thread itself with tweezers). The masking tape piece is able to stay where you position it with one tweezers without sagging over like the thread can do because it is much stiffer.

Thanx for the tips and opinions. I've ordered some Lycra and I'll see how that works and go from that point.

rfwood1 wrote:I have not tried to rig my WW2 and WW1 warship models, but I think I should give it a try. I've looked at some online videos to get a better handle on what to do and as a result, I've decided that stretched sprue is just too fragile. I think some sort of filament is the best route to go, but I'd like to get recommendations on which products you experts use for rigging line.

Thanks in advance for any advice you can give....

I would add to Timmy C's "stretchy" and "non-stretchy", that there is also "soft" and "hard". Soft would be like a piece of string or sewing thread, tending to deform under gravity (sag, if you will, toward the ground), while "hard" tends to be stiff and largely non-bending (and non-stretchy). Stretched sprue and ultrafine wire are used for rigging and are of the "hard" variety. These don't lend themselves to knots or loops, so they have to be cut exactly to length and attached (for example with super glue) on each end of the rigging run. There are advantages and disadvantages to each type, and I have used multiple types on a single ship rigging scheme to take advantage of different aspects of the various types.

DavidK

There are generally two types of rigging product: stretchy and non-stretchy. Stretchy (like the Lycra in this thread) gives you taut rigging at the risk of uneven thickness (the more you stretch, the thinner it gets) and increased stress on your masts and yards (especially problematic if they're just PE pieces). Non-stretchy (like UNI Caenis fly-tying line) requires you to either attach them while they're pulled taut or the application of heat (such as from incense) afterwards to tighten them.

I have not tried to rig my WW2 and WW1 warship models, but I think I should give it a try. I've looked at some online videos to get a better handle on what to do and as a result, I've decided that stretched sprue is just too fragile. I think some sort of filament is the best route to go, but I'd like to get recommendations on which products you experts use for rigging line.

Thanks in advance for any advice you can give....

I've been using Ultrafine Lycra rigging again. My first breakthrough was learning to use it directly from the spool. This keeps one end of the line from going where you don't expect it. This is a great way to do rigging runs, where you anchor the free end to a mast or spar (a loop or two and some superglue) and start unspooling the Lycra to the next point in the rigging plan (you have to let the first end glue dry), anchor it there, and unspool from there to the next point, and so on until you dead end (no place left to go) where you finally anchor it and cut it from the spool.

Today, I was doing a rigging to rigging connection (German battleship Scharnhorst; there are lines dropping from the rigging between the spars that stick out from near the top of the bridge). I can't neatly do this with either nylon monofilament or ultrafine wire, because they won't loop tightly enough around the line I'm tie-ing them to. I've never been able to tie knots in Ultrafine rigging when I try this, although it pulls tight enough. In today's case, the horizontal rigging line I put in between the bridge spars was 0.003" nylon monofilament (not stretchy, so I could tie to it without deforming it). I looped Lycra around the starboard nylon run a couple times with the free end from the Lycra spool and anchored it with superglue. I took the spool and ran the line under the foremast platform and over to the opposite side where I wanted to anchor the second end to the portside nylon monofilament (symmetrical rigging scheme). To make loops now, however, I had to cut the Lycra from the spool (the spool is way too big to fit between the nylon run and the bridge).

I was worried that I wouldn't be able to work with the free end of the Lycra, because it likes to curl up and do other crazy things when it's not under any tension. What I discovered today was that I could take a very small square of Tamiya yellow masking tape and stick the end of the Lycra to it. I then used needle nosed tweezers to loop the Lycra around the nylon monofilament by guiding the little piece of masking tape with the tweezers. This was much easier than trying to work directly with the Lycra with the tweezers (it likes to get away at the most inconvenient times from the tweezers). So I wanted to pass this tip along to those who work with Ultrafine Lycra rigging.

Don't know, I've never seen the stuff.
I have used Gator's glue. Works well. Also just Elmers White glue and Aileen's Tacky Glue. I think the're all about the same thing, maybe a slightly different formula.

EJ

MM2CVS9 wrote:I don't know why those pictures are so big. Never had that happen before.

EJ

It was a big idea!

All kidding aside, how does this compare to Micro Kristal Klear? Or is it pretty much the same thing?

Thanks!
Dave

I don't know why those pictures are so big. Never had that happen before.

EJ

Thankyou to both of you for your answers. I will try it.

I just started using Bondic UV glue for my rigging lines. Very simple to use. I put a small working amount of the glue on a piece of tape. The glue stays usable for a long time unless it's exposed to the included UV light. I places a tiny amount of glue with a toothpick where I want the line to connect. I place a tiny amount on the line I'm connecting. Hold it in place with tweezers and then hit it for five seconds with the UV light. Job done. Perfect butt joints and no loose ends to try and trim off. So far I have only used it on lycra rigging lines. I would think it would work well with metal also.

The method I used prior to this is with CA glue. Similar approach. I put a tiny drop of CA where I want the line to attach. I dip the end of the line in CA accelerator or apply with a micro brush. Next I touch the wetted line to the CA glue and hold it there for about five seconds. The accelerator sets off the glue and the line stays in place. When I do this with wire I apply a tiny amount of CA glue on the end of the wire and let it dry off. That gives the CA something to bite to. Then I place the glue on the ship where I want the line to go to, apply accelerator to the line. Bring the two together and hold for about five seconds and the line is secure. The down side to this method and is that sometimes you get a misfire. The accelerator takes a long while to go off before you can apply glue to it again. Like 30 min to an hour. So don't try applying the CA to a locations or attach point where it's been exposed to accelerator until the accelerator has fully gone off.

That's why I switched to the UV glue. If I have a failure (which hasn't happened yet) I can go right back in and do it over. No down time.

I can't speak to other brands. But the Bondic does have good viscosity for what we do with our rigging lines.

Good luck
Dave

It is a PVA marketed for canopy install.







EJ

Thanks for the info. What kind of glue is formula 500? Some brand of cyano? Or pva one? I am from Spain and we have different names here for similar products.

I've used it to "tack" P E railing in place on 1/700 ships. then go back and final glue it with formula 500 glue. I just put a little puddle of the UV glue on my glass plate work surface, dip the edge of the P E in the puddle in a few places ( depending on how long the piece is) hold it in place with a tweezers ant one spot, usually the middle and hit it with the light. Then move to the next spot and do the same and so on. I get the rail in exactly the position I want every time.

Works for me.

EJ

Has anybody tried the UV varnish (or glues) used by fly makers (for fishing), they harden almost instantaneously when exposed to UV light, but meanwile allows you to work freely. I am thinking about trying it but I would like to know if here is any experience among you.

I would NEVER try to knot Angel Hair....
T2

I'd like to thank Jabberwock, MrTsquare, and Sean_the_Nailer for their recent and informative posts. I'd like to make a couple of points re the recent comments.

Actual glasses, such as spun glass, don't have a fixed chemical composition (glass refers to a material's lack of crystallinity), but they are generally totally inorganic (vs organic like plants, animals and their by-products such as plastics and rubbers). Typical glasses are likely to be chemically stable for millions of years, since glass is extremely resistant to chemicals (which is why so many chemicals are stored in glass bottles). I would like to know, though, how easy it is to tie a small knot from a strand of angel hair? Knots always help when glue might fail to hold rigging in place.

The diameter of human hair is actually quite variable (by over a factor of ten). Ultrafine, at least to my mind, implies a diameter of not more than about 0.003 inches or 80 micrometers (microns). 80 microns is close to the "average" diameter of human hair, so average or finer hair would be ultrafine, but coarser hair would not be (with respect to this forum).

I have an "infinite" supply of 0.003 inch nylon monofilament thread (miles), and it is much finer than a stringed instrument string unless the string is woven of finer strands. The problem with unweaving strands is that sometimes the finer pieces are proper threads themselves, but more like thread fragments, and when you try to separate them out, you don't get particularly long pieces.

I'm also leary of using hair (human or otherwise), because it is a biological material and I'm concerned about the long term stability of it.

I wouldn't let that bother you, 3,000 year old hair is still extant from Egyptian mummies.

I think the plastic would break down before that

Cheers, Jabb

Another possibility that I have used with some success on 1/700 ships is Angel Hair. This is essintially spun glass that comes in (approximately) at .002in. Find in craft shops around the holiday season. 1 box would be about 10,000 years supply. The problem with its lack of color can be fixed with a colored Sharpie. Use white glue or some such or cyano.
T2