The Ship Model Forum

Looks good. Do you have a picture of the original tubes? The stripes look similar to those on german tubes. There were bolts so the tubes could be split.

Other question. Where did you get the guy and is he in 1/96 or 1/100 scale?

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Uli "Torpedo" Setzermann

http://www.marine-forum.de - Das Kaiserliche Marineforum

Currently Building: SM TrpBt B-110, SM TrpBt S-37
Upcoming: SMS Derfflinger

According to the Chathams book, at the time frame represented by my model, most TBDs were painted black overall but commonly had the turtleback and sometimes the upper hull strake (as on Steve's model) painted grey. This was (as far as I know) mainly for decorative purposes so would presumably have been painted out in the event of war. Also, the interiors of all the cowl vents (certainly the larger ones) were painted red, which I think was standard practice on all ships of this time period.
By 1914, all the TBDs/destroyers were were painted overall grey like the rest of the fleet. However, as my model represents the ship "as built" in 1904, it'll be black with a grey turtleback - as shown on the cover of the book. Also, I've painted the deck on my model a very dark grey, both to provide a bit of visual contrast and to represent a slightly weathered/salt-stained appearance. The model will also be lightly weathered and dry-brushed when it's finished.

Regarding your other question, Velox only had 4 props - still difficult for a R/C model particularly as the exposed portions of the prop shafts are quite large.



Unfortunately I don't have any photos of the torpedo tubes - the closest I can find is a photo of a single tube on HMS Swift, on Navweaps.com: http://www.navweaps.com/Weapons/WTBR_PreWWII.htm. This isn't much like the one on Velox though, and it also has a different (and more sophisticated) traversing mechanism. Hence I'm just using the plans in the book as reference. I have a few questions about the torpedo tubes, which I'll post later!
I'm fairly certain that, as you say, the stripes/bands are points where the tube is bolted together. If you look at the HMS Swift photo (in the above link), you can see it has a single band like this which has a riveted flange around it - the ones on Velox's torpedo tubes are the same (I haven't added these flanges to the tubes on my model yet, however)

The figures (plastic) are from Revell's 1/96 USS Kearsarge kit. They were originally produced for the 1/96 Cutty Sark so are actually supposed to represent late-19th century merchant ship crew (the one in the peaked cap is presumably the captain). Most of them don't have the right uniform for late 19th or 20th century naval crew, but they're useful for photographs to provide a scale/size reference. I have some 1/100 Preiser model railway figures which I'll adapt into crew figures for Velox.

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Model Ship Kit Reviews

Pretty ship and inspiring building, please go on

Can you make moulds of the figures? I am constantly looking for a crew and only got a few from MZ-Modellbau. The Preiser figures I saw in 1:100 were not so useful, which did you take?

Concerning the torpedo tubes I did a lot of research. Certainly state of the art are those from Thorsten Pfeiffer, which I can't reach:
http://www.arbeitskreis-historischer-sc ... ckst07.htm (look further down)

Mine are much more simple. I used parts of soldering wire to imitate the bolts, but that is still improvable. Take a look at my report for techniques.

Concerning the RC, four propellers are manageble as you will only propulse two and let the others run free.

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Uli "Torpedo" Setzermann

http://www.marine-forum.de - Das Kaiserliche Marineforum

Currently Building: SM TrpBt B-110, SM TrpBt S-37
Upcoming: SMS Derfflinger

Those are amazing. I'm impressed.

Andy

As Andy G says, those torpedo tubes (in the link you posted) are seriously impressive! They look like a combination of resin and cast brass parts, am I right?

Regarding the figures - All of Revell's 1/96 kits (other than the USS Constitution and United States, which have different figures) include a couple of sprues of these, about 30-40 figures in total I think. They are in a variety of poses, some are climbing rigging, others holding ropes, etc. As they are merchant ship crew (originally produced to go with the Cutty Sark kit) most of them are in "casual" clothing, only the officers (about 5-6 per kit) have uniforms.

I don't want to make moulds of the figures to sell or trade, for copyright reasons, as they are from commercial plastic kits which are still widely available. In any case, casting such small, complex and detailed shapes is beyond my skills at the minute!

However, I have more of these figures than I am ever likely to need (at least 50), so let me know if you're interested in some (maybe we could do a trade if you have some 1/100 parts you don't need)

The Preiser figures I got were an unpainted set (much cheaper than the painted ones) of standing passengers and railway station staff. The latter have uniforms and flat-topped caps and should make reasonable naval crew with a bit of reshaping/modification and an appropriate paint job! The passengers will also be useful for civil ship models.

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Model Ship Kit Reviews

Well air intakes are looking good! I hope that it is easier to build them in 1/96 then in 1/200 because it was, for me on building the SMS Velebit, I would say hardest part of the build, and still there is another big intake to build...

Nice progress so far...

Here's a casting of the binnacle and the 6-pounder gun (a 4-part assembly). Unfortunately the 6pdr is the only usable one of about 5 castings, due to a mould design flaw. Basically I split the two-piece mould vertically rather than horizontally, so there was no way to cut air channels to the trunnions and recoil cylinders, and these details did not cast properly. All of the 12-pounder castings were unusable for the same reason. So I'll have to make a new set of moulds and try again. Thankfully the masters are still usable, and the moulds are small so not much silicone rubber is wasted.

All of the castings for the pedestal, mount and shoulder rest turned out OK, as these are a seperate mould.

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Model Ship Kit Reviews

I've started on the 12pdrs for the Dreadnought. But it's taken me three hours to make just "the bits above the trunnion" - and I need 24 of them. So you're casting in silicone using what material? I think I need to take this route myself!

Andy

They're cast from lead-free white metal alloy - I got the materials from http://www.tiranti.co.uk/
Note that you need a different type of silicone rubber for the moulds, which can withstand high temperatures - the type used for resin casting isn't suitable.
The advantage of metal casting vs. resin is that you can make thin parts like gun barrels without risk of warping or breaking, and waste material (sprue, rejected castings) can be re-used. The disadvantage is that mould-making is more complex (two-piece moulds are needed for most things, and you need to cut air escape channels) and it doesn't pick up really fine detail so well, unless you use centrifugal or pressure casting.

I've made the new moulds for the 6- and 12-pounder gun barrels, and the castings have turned out OK - I'll post some photos when they're cleaned up and assembled.

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Model Ship Kit Reviews

Hi EP,

what do you want and need? Please look at my report of B-110 and tell me what parts and how many you like to have. Actually I try to mould the round bottoms and rails for the torpedo-tubes, but failed the first time...

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Uli "Torpedo" Setzermann

http://www.marine-forum.de - Das Kaiserliche Marineforum

Currently Building: SM TrpBt B-110, SM TrpBt S-37
Upcoming: SMS Derfflinger

I've finally got the metal castings to turn out OK - Here are the "sprues" straight out of the mould:


and here are the assembled + cleaned up parts.



Close-up of the 6-pounder (57mm) gun. Velox carried three of these, two either side of the conning tower and one aft - the aft one had a different type of mount (which I will scratchbuild from styrene) This type of gun (as far as I can tell from photos) was traversed and elevated using the "stock", it didn't have handwheels.


Close-up of the 12-pounder (3"/76mm) gun. This was mounted on top of the conning tower (as on most TBDs) forward of the open bridge position. Handwheels will be added later from photo-etched parts.

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Model Ship Kit Reviews

Ahoy EP


merely because have not commented before on this project--does not mean I am not watching you....LOL!!

You are making excellent progress on this model ---Bravo!

Casting metal eh...? pretty impressive stuff!!

Jim Baumann

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....I buy them at three times the speed I build 'em.... will I live long enough to empty my stash...?
http://www.modelshipgallery.com/gallery ... index.html

IPMS UK SIG (special interest group) www.finewaterline.com

This isn't the Velox, but a hull I started several years ago, the USCGC Tampa, a Modoc class Coast Guard cutter in 1/96 scale. I threw it together in a bit of a hurry so it's not very pretty, but it illustrates the technique.

The first step is to cut a backbone/keel from the hull profile. This hull was longer than any of the sheet plastic stock I had so I scarphed two pieces together in the middle and reinforced the joint on each side. Then the ribs/bulkheads are cut from the stations on the plan. I have found that the more of these you have the fairer the finished hull will be as the planking/plates tend to lie in straight lines between the ribs. Ideally you would probably want twice as many as I have used here, but this will work. After the ribs are in place stringers are added where the deck edge will be.




The whole thing is very similar to paper construction for full hulls. The most dificult problem is figuring out what shape the plates for the skin need to be.




The way I determine the shape of the plates is to start at the area of the hull that is most regular and with the least taper, usually that's amidships. I then cut a thin piece of sheet plastic a little longer that the distance between the middle two ribs and wider than the distance from the keel to the deck. I then glue one edge to the centerline of the keel.

Once the glue is completely dry, I gently bend the plate up to conform with the profile of the ribs on each side. Then, securely holding the plate tightly against the ribs, I mark the inside of the plate along the edge of both ribs with a pencil. The plate is then trimmed slightly larger than the pencil lines so that the edges will lie on the centerline of each rib. Once the plate is correctly trimmed it is bent up again the conform tightly with the ribs and clamped at the top to the deck stringer. The plate is then glued to the ribs and deck stringer. When the first plate is dry I add the second plate at the same place on the opposite side of the hull. I then proceed with the rest of the hull alternating bow to stern and port to starboard to keep the stresses equalized on the keel.




The overall shape of the first plates in the middle of the hull is often rectangular, or very nearly so. As you work your way towards the bow and stern, however, the shapes get more and more irregular and the curves get more acute, and eventually you get to the extreme bow and stern where the flat plastic sheet can no longer be easily be bent or stretched to form the compound curves required. The easiest thing I've found to do here is to fill these area in with solid material which will be carved and sanded to the proper shapes. As you can see I have not gotten around to doing that yet on this hull. You can also see the damage where I experimented with pouring resin into one of the cavities at the bow to reinforce it and it attacked the plastic. Not a bright move on my part!



EPenniger, your Velox build is looking extremely good and your metal castings are absolutely fantastic!

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Steve Sobieralski
Tampa Bay Ship Model Society

Thanks for the comments - also very interested to see your styrene hull construction technique, Steve - will take a closer look at this later when I have more time.
One question, what adhesive did you use to glue the styrene parts?

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Model Ship Kit Reviews

Excellent castings . Looking forward to seeing more . Would resin have produced as good a casting ?
Dave Wooley

I mosly use Ambroid liquid plastic cement, but soemtimes cyano with an accellerant so it sets immediately, although you have to be carefull as the accellerant can weaken the plastic.

I have found the actual Velox construction photos. They were taken pre-digital so are not very good, but show how the plating application is alternated side to side and clamped to the deck stringer.

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Steve Sobieralski
Tampa Bay Ship Model Society

EP:

After much searching I found the HMS Velox Model photos from the antique store.

Is there an Email address I can send them to?

There are about 8 of them. 1 Meg. 5 Meg if you want the enlarged photos.

Mr. Wizard

Resin casting would almost certainly have produced better castings in terms of detail and definition, particularly with "undercut" detail - the only problem (apart from air bubbles) might be warping of the gun barrels.
Although I was recommended to start with metal instead of resin casting, and the economy of being able to melt down and re-use scrap/rejected castings is useful, I'm thinking resin would actually be better for most of the items I want to cast. The ability to use single-piece moulds is another bonus (making two-piece moulds, and cleaning up the inevitable seam lines that result, is a pain). Hence I may well switch over to using resin in the future.

I'll post some more photos of Velox soon - not much progress in the last week but I have made the aft gun mount and added the steering chain. Next stage is the small deck details like coaling hatches.



Thanks - I'd be interested to see the photos. My e-mail address is:
edwardpinniger (AT) epmodels (DOT) co.uk (replace (AT) with @ and (DOT) with . - this is to foil the automated "spam-bots" that harvest e-mail addresses)

(As I'm still on dialup (will be getting broadband soon) please send the low-res photos!)

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Model Ship Kit Reviews