The Ship Model Forum

Pascal:

I wonder what the function of the "tube" at the forward end of the "Kiosk" was for. On the original Fleet Boats there was a scuttle for passing ammunition for the forward deck gun.

Thank you for providing the useful information about applying varnish materials to the clear section to increase the transparency. I don't currently have any clear resins, but useful information. I did use a dab of varnish to clear up the porthole plugs, turned from acrylic rod.

I see a lot of different listings for 2K professional products. Many are a 2 part mix with an activator and sometime in a rattle can (very expensive).

Regards: Tom

Yes, Tom, I don't use the 2K hardener, which you normally have to hit from the bottom of the can. If I do, I'll have to use the whole can quickly, I need a large surface.

So I let it dry like normal paint, it just takes longer, one day, but I save varnish.

A little problem with the sonar.

The bow of the USS Torsk Revell ( 1944 ) is not identical to the one after conversion to Guppy Portsmouth type.

This poses a problem. Because one can suppose that the bow was modified to install this sonar, pure speculation on my part.

I checked with the original plan of the USS 376 Mapiro, converted into a Guppy, the plan dates from 1969. The bow has not been modified, but does not have this type of sonar.



Revell Plan:








On the hull, some other differences listed here by Mario Grima:

_________________
Pascal

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The dry dock photo shows the bow door replaced with some sort of dummy? Interesting that the dry dock shows the middle tubes plated over. Museum ships often have various modifications in their demilitarization, or equipment stolen for other ships than may not otherwise be obtainable today. This was the case when the Iowa's were activated, much long out of production equipment was purloined from museum ships.

Torsk is in my guestimation a Fleet Snorkel and not a GUPPY. The Guppy's had much more rounded forms topside, especially noticeable with a rounding of the stem profile where it meets the main deck. Internal changes were rather dramatic with a gray increase in battery capacity and efficiency and a change in the propulsion motors to a low speed type that eliminated reduction gears, this was more efficient, but especially important was the elimination of the noise the gears made, making for a more stealthy sub. With the increase in underwater propulsive power and streamlining it was discovered that handling of high speed submarines could be a hairy exercise indeed. Loss of depth control could easily cause an excursion below test depth, in seconds.

I had a little experience on Bugara, doing submerged runs at the Sound Range at Dabob Bay, near the current Bangor Sub Base. She was a fleet snorkel, little internal modification from WWII fleet boats.

Cheers: Tom

Here are answers to 2 questions above.
First, I believe the hole in the front of the sail is for the signal horn. But I have no evidence.
The difference in shape of Torsk’s bow compared to GUPPYs such as Mapiro is due to Torsk being part of the Tench class, not Gato or Balao. Tench class boats were built late in the war with a different tank arrangement and sharper chin under the bow.
On a separate note, the tubing running diagonally up the port side of the sail is not mentioned on any booklet of general plans but is shown in photos of some boats with stepped sails. My guess is the tube is a late add-on for a floating wire antenna. If true, the tube should be open at the top. That is not clear in the excellent photos of Torsk.

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Mike Perry

Friedmans subs since 1945 discusses the Snorkel/Guppy program a bit.




The snorkel program varied in completeness, the upper was done for the Italian Navy, the bottom drawing with the revised bow contours to facilitate the sonar dome, the deck contours little changed. This is similar to Torsk.



The guppies had the whole deck re contoured as well as the bow profile to increase the underwater speed. The most extreme of these had a hull plug installed to increase the internal volume.

Bugara was a snorkel configured somewhat like Torsk but with a more advanced sail, similar to the Guppies.

Not sure why the lower image appears twice!

Indeed Mike, thank you for your information, it is clearer. My friend Vincent wants to make the museum version. For the hull he uses a Gato. It's his choice.

I have seen the flaire antenna on pictures of the time which I have not found.

Here you can see the other white folding antenna which is no longer on the museum version, only the base remains.

_________________
Pascal

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Thanks for the very useful documentation Tom.

_________________
Pascal

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The sonar is finished. It's not going to be easy to integrate it in the hull, a lot of adjustment work ahead.

_________________
Pascal

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Pascal:

Nice sonar dome, including oil canning and weld seams. On the dry dock photos one can see the transition in the hull plating to deepen and make the forefoot more angular and better accommodate the sound dome. Another challenge!

Cheers: Tom

A Tench Guppy underway, the sail (Kiosk) is very similar to Torsk. The main external difference identifying this as a Guppy is the recurved stem and the more rounded deck edge. As a Tench class the Torsk had a more sharply angled forefoot than the earlier classes. How much plating revision was necessary for the sound dome, hard to say, certainly less than an earlier Balao etc.

Supposedly (Friedman) the snorkel boats were detectable at considerably longer ranges by passive sonar than the guppies. As Fleet snorkeler (Bugara) we were at the sound range to evaluate various equipment and modifications on detection while snorkeling and on battery at various speeds and depths.

I enlarged the sonar a little bit as it was a bit too thin according to the dry dock pictures.

The printing went well, it hollowed out with reinforcements on the inside.

This project for Vincent is now finished. I will just paint the second sail that I printed for myself as it is in the museum.

I found these old pictures with this livery:





And these very interesting documents, you can see the tilting starboard side antenna.

https://annapolismaritimeantiques.com/p ... 4026798295

_________________
Pascal

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Pascal:

That is a good illustration of the size of the sonar dome and the increasing importance of sound in underwater warfare post war. The head on photo of Torsk approaching alongside the other vessel shows the amount of flare in the bow casing as contrasting with the considerably modified Guppy foredeck, it's more than a slight recurve of the bow profile.

An interesting sub project! Cheers: Tom

An afternoon of painting for the massif yesterday. I had received the Lifecolor set to start this step before yesterday.

UA655 U.S Modern Navy HazeGrey #2106

UA660 U.S Navy Submarine Black #7106

The aging process is not finished. The decals are to be put on for the numbers, if it doesn't suit me ( I'm not a fan in general, it will be done with paint with stencils cut with my Profile machine.

The camouflage of the front periscope is done with a black Bic indelible marker for the marking of clothes, top, followed by a veil of gray airbrush from afar, very diluted, I varnished in matte after. It gives exactly the consistency of the original. Off-white N°5 Humbrol at the base.

Remain some rust cankers to realize, not too much, and a general matte varnish layer to integrate the whole in a set.  :) . The black is a little satin, too much for my taste, which does not fit with a paint worn by UV or / and the sea.

The navigation lights are to be painted, the bottom of the bubble in black, the ports to be mounted, and the floor of the quarterdeck to be glued after.

I was careful not to draw too much straight for the limit of the black with the grey, you can see that this delimitation is done by hand on the pictures, sometimes even on the old pictures with a spray gun, see above.  :)

_________________
Pascal

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I am encouraged me to continue painting and especially lettering.

My USN decals in stock are either too small or too big, 8mm is needed here, so I decided to do the thing with paint and my Silhouette Profil 3 cutter. Also there is some shading to do.

The decals I have in stock are white without shading.

I still found in China and ordered for stock the rare pearl, but it will take a long time to come:

https://www.ebay.fr/itm/174705688389


So I started the building site, one afternoon was not too much . But it's so much better painted.  

Cutting of the mask with a USN font that you can find here:

https://fontmeme.com/polices/police-usn-stencil/








First, airbrush the black background. Do not dilute the paint, at least as little as possible, apply it with low air pressure, to avoid possible drips under the mask. If this is not successful, the gray should be repainted etc..



Put a new mask to paint the white (Tamiya XF-2, too white). Do not dilute it, it is already very liquid in this brand. Low pressure and go gently without hurrying in several small successive layers, wait 1 minute between each layer.



Attenuation of white and shading with Modern Haze grey, a very light veil well diluted is enough once the last mask is removed, low air pressure.
As a result, the lettering fits better aesthetically in the bed, it should not dominate, a good balance must be found.

Concentrate on this last step and don't fall, otherwise...  

_________________
Pascal

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Pascal:

The flat weather gray looks quite convincing. I have also used the cutout stencils for masking numbers. The shading requires some complication but is doable. The ability to make the correct size is a plus and is more durable than a decal application. For really small lettering such as draft numbers I have used the cutouts as press applies. Decals might be a more convenient method for those. Certainly the decal printing procedure has better detail and color control than what we can achieve by stenciling. I really dislike working with white paint. Currently I am dealing with a Liquitex FLAT white and also use the black. Really excellent paints if a little expensive.

A convincing project. At the entrance to Puget Sound Naval Shipyard is the Sail (Kiosk) of a Nuc sub that was deactivated, looking much like your model, except a modern configuration.

Cheers: Tom

This one, may be, Tom?

https://www.tripadvisor.fr/Attraction_R ... ngton.html

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Pascal

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I drew a support quickly this afternoon.

The sail will remain removable, if one day I decide to mount the sub completely.

_________________
Pascal

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Pascal:

Yes that's the one, by the shipyard main gate. Just out of the photo to the left is the interesting Shipyard Museum. The hull section base adds some reference for your sail. The decking on the subs often had some minor spacing between the "planks" so as to let air escape quickly during a dive, the larger limber holes along the side of the casing, at the bottom, allowing the water to flow into the false deck casing. allowing quicker dive.



Here is a wartime photo of Silversides showing a surface action. Note the chain gang to pass ammunition. Well illustrates the spacing of the deck planking.

Cheers: Tom

Printing the hull section. I'll reprint my cleats to get it just right.

Then paint.

_________________
Pascal

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There is still the weathering, a little rust to apply, the cleats, a little gray paint on the sides and maybe one or two submariners to give the scale and a little animation..

_________________
Pascal

•Battleship Bretagne 3D: https://vu.fr/FvCY
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