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PostPosted: Wed Jul 18, 2007 5:43 am 
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I've run into some problems with my scratchbuild of the minesweeper USS Hazard due to lack of reference material, so have decided to start an additional scratchbuild project, of a ship which I have much better references for. This is the Royal Navy torpedo boat destroyer HMTBD (or HMS) Velox, built in 1904.

I started this about a month ago, so the photos shown aren't totally up-to-date, on the other hand I haven't found any time to work on this model in the last couple of weeks so it hasn't progressed a huge amount since the photos were taken!


The plans I'm building it from are those included in David Lyon's book "The First Destroyers", published by Chatham (this book is widely available, and inexpensive - about £10-15, or even less second-hand). They consist of a fold-out sheet in 1/96 scale, with hull lines and cross-sections on the reverse, and are very detailed. I haven't managed to find much in the way of other reference material (e.g contemporary photos) for Velox, but the plans in the book include virtually all the detail needed to build a model of the ship in 1/96 or smaller. The book also includes perspective and cutaway drawings of HMS Havock, which has many common fittings and design elements (though it's a completely different design, from a different shipyard) which is also a useful source of reference.

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HMTBD Velox ("swift/fleet" in Latin) was completed by Parsons/Hawthorn Leslie in 1904 (laid down in 1901). It was a one-off design with an unconventional engine/boiler arrangement (including reciprocating engines added for cruising) and was not very efficient in terms of speed and fuel consumption. Outwardly, however, it's a very typical and representative example of a turn-of-the-century Royal Navy TBD. (I'm not sure why exactly the author chose this particular ship as the subject for the book plans - perhaps it was the most straightforward or cheapest to obtain plans for; the NMM hold many plans of TBDs, but are known to charge very high amounts for commercial use of their plans)

The ship remained in service until 1915 when it was sunk by a mine, off the coast of the Isle of Wight. In 1913 it was grouped into the "C-class" of destroyers, which basically comprised all the old TBDs with 3 funnels and a maximum speed of 30 knots. This "class" included a very wide assortment of ships from different yards, dating from the 1890s to the early 1900s, including Velox's near-sister HMS Viper. The best Internet reference I've found for these is on Wikipedia: link
Jane's WW1 Fighting Ships also has some information.

I don't know what if any modifications were made to the ship between 1904 and 1915, but my model will represent the ship in 1904 fit, as depicted in the plans. As built, its armament consisted of two torpedo tubes (on rotating mounts aft - there was no bow torpedo tube, as found on some other TBDs), two 12-pounder guns, and four 6-pounder guns. Measuring about 210ft with a beam of 21ft, its total displacement was 445 tons.
Presumably the ship was painted overall grey in WW1 - as built (and as seen on the cover of Lyon's book)it was overall black with the turtleback painted in light grey and the vent interiors red. This is the paint scheme I'll be using.

The ship was originally referred to as HMTBD (His Majesty's Torpedo Boat Destroyer) Velox when built, but I think the prefix "HMS" was adopted for TBDs fairly soon after this - certainly by WW1 it's referred to as HMS Velox. I'll be referring to it as "HMTBD" to avoid confusion with the later HMS Velox - a V&W-class destroyer which served in both WW1 and WW2.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 18, 2007 5:55 am 
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Here are the photos for the first stage of the build:

I always start with the hull when scratchbuilding a ship (as I suspect most modellers do!) though it's not always the most time-consuming part of the build (at least if you're building a waterline hull) it is the one that needs the most care and attention to get right, and I don't want to start work on building fittings and superstructure until I know I can build a decent hull to put them on!

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The deck width is marked out at 2cm intervals onto a sheet of 1mm styrene sheet cut to the right length and width. As the plans I'm measuring from are the same scale as the model, this is, for once, a fairly straightforward process. However, it's still fairly slow and painstaking and it's very important to get this stage exactly right - otherwise you'll end up with a banana-shaped hull...

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The deck is cut to shape along lines drawn between the measured points, then the edge is sanded heavily to produce a smooth curve.

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When compared to the plans, the deck is accurate to within a few millimetres - more through luck than anything else! - though it's about 5-6mm too short. This will be partly made up for by the thickness of the hull sides.


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The hull sides are cut from 1mm styrene sheet, pre-curved at the bow and stern ends and glued on (I glue one side on, then attach the other when the first has thoroughly set). The deck is attached about 1mm below the top of the side to provide a coaming/waterway at the edge of the deck. The stern section will be added afterwards. Making this seperately makes it much easier to get the correct curve without distorting the rest of the hull sides.

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The stern has been added, with reinforcing tabs on the inside to join it to the rest of the hull sides. The seam will be filled + sanded smooth later. The bow will also need a fair amount of filling, filing + sanding to get the correct profile.

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It still needs portholes, a rubbing strake at the top, and other details, and will also have a base added at some point (which gives the hull much more structural strength, essentially making it into a box) but the basic hull is now complete after 2 days of work.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 18, 2007 5:59 am 
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The next stage is the "turtleback" at the bow. This is the most distinctive feature of these ships, so it's important to get it right, but it will be tricky to scratchbuild in styrene.
The first, easiest, stage is to cut out the bulkhead, again from 1mm sheet.

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Next the "roof" of the turtleback is added using a piece of 0.5mm sheet (a thicker gauge would have more structural strength, but is harder to curve smoothly). It is cut to basically the same profile as the bow deck, but is wider at the aft end, tapering to very slightly narrower at the fore end, to allow for the curve. After a couple of false starts I managed to cut a piece accurate enough in shape to only need a small amount of filler in a couple of areas.

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The turtleback actually extends aft further than the bulkhead, but this portion needs to be added after the conning tower is in place.

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Next is the armoured bridge/conning tower structure situated aft of the turtleback. This is not very big but a rather complex shape. Luckily I had a piece of scrap styrene tube of exactly the right diameter for the circular section of the structure. The rest is made from 0.5mm sheet.

Portholes/scuttles are measured and marked out on the hull sides and drilled out with a Dremel using a 2mm drill bit, after "spiking" the locations with a centre punch to keep the drill bit in place. Glazing and "eyebrows" will be added later!
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 18, 2007 6:02 am 
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After calculating the diameter the templates for the funnels are cut out of 0.5mm sheet, a couple of centimetres longer than needed to give some leeway when cutting them to the right angle. The pieces are then pre-curved and a tab glued on to the inside of one edge.

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Once the glue on the tab has thoroughly set, the pieces are curved into a tube, glued (using the tab to join the ends) and clamped.

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After the glue has set, "wedges" are measured and sawn off each end to produce the (approximately) correct raked angle. The tubes are then squashed into an oval shape. They should have flat sides, but I couldn't manage to form this shape neatly; next time I attempt to build flat-sided funnels I'll construct them from seperate curved end and flat side sections. It was difficult enough getting the funnels for Velox all raked at the same angle whilst also keeping the tops level, so I decided to leave them as they are!

The middle funnel is wider as it takes the exhaust from 2 of the ship's boilers (this is obvious when looking at the interior diagrams in the book). The forward funnel is slightly shorter than the aft one, only really noticeable when measuring it - not sure why it was designed like this.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 18, 2007 8:12 am 
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The plans may have been easier and cheaper to obtain by the author as the ship was privately funded and built as a means to sell the turbine to the RN. (Imagine today the likes of Rolls Royce building a destroyer and offering it free to a Navy as a freebie!)

Whatever it is a fascinating subject, and thanks for the heads up on the book, must have it!


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 18, 2007 9:07 am 
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Great stuff!

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 18, 2007 9:29 am 
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I'll be watching this with great interest. I had Ron Smith pull some early US torpedo boat plans for me a while back. Their shape is very similar to what you're doing here, so hopefully I'll learn something.

-Devin

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 18, 2007 9:49 am 
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Very nice work, interesting to see your approach to some of the problems

mike

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 18, 2007 11:02 am 
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Very interesting...

It has the same shape of the bow - "turtleback" - as the SMS "Velebit" that I'm building, but it is understandable when you know that SMS "Huszar" - first ship in SMS "Velebit"s class was build in England in 1905. ...


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 18, 2007 12:59 pm 
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Nice work EP!

most elegant looking vessel-but... at 1:96 its Biiig!

where/how do you display all these large models...?

watching this with interest
JIM B :wave_1: :wave_1:

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 18, 2007 1:36 pm 
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JIM BAUMANN wrote:
Nice work EP!

most elegant looking vessel-but... at 1:96 its Biiig!

where/how do you display all these large models...?

watching this with interest
JIM B :wave_1: :wave_1:


It's actually "only" 2ft or so long - no bigger than a 1/350 battleship (and a lot narrower :big_grin:) It isn't too hard to display models like this on a largeish bookshelf. HMVS Cerberus is currently sitting at one end on a 160mm-long shelf, with space at the other end for USS Hazard and HMS Velox once they're completed. The shelf below it (same length, slightly wider) has my collection of 1/72 torpedo boats and small craft - only 5 so far (including a LCVP) but with space for at least 6-7 more.

Another factor is that with the level of detail needed for a 1/96 model, and the fact that it's scratchbuilt, it takes several months at least to build from start to finish, during which I could have built several models in a smaller scale.

I don't build battleships, cruisers and other large vessels in this scale (or even 1/144) - now those really ARE big! I don't think I'd contemplate building anything larger than a WW2 destroyer in 1/96 unless it was for R/C operation.

Certainly in this scale it isn't possible to build a large, representative collection of a particular type or era of ships, unless you have a very big house and unlimited free time to build it in! This is why I still build in smaller scales (my entire collection of 20+ 1/600 and 1/700 ships, including HMS Ark Royal, HMS Howe and several cruisers, fits into a space only slightly larger than HMVS Cerberus in 1/96)

I think part of the reason I prefer building in larger scales is that I built aircraft and military vehicle models for many years (and still do, though not as many) before "discovering" ships; when you're used to working in 1/48 and 1/35, even 1/350 seems a bit small. I became a convert to ship modelling a couple of years ago when I tried building a 1/72 Vosper MTB as a change from aircraft and tanks!

Anyway, thanks for the comments - I'll post another update tomorrow hopefully.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 18, 2007 3:05 pm 
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Superb subject . I have always had a thing about the turtleback TBDs . :thumbs_up_1: :thumbs_up_1: :thumbs_up_1: :wave_1:
Dave Wooley


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 18, 2007 9:41 pm 
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Wow!

Another person that has a grasp on styrene modeling. :thumbs_up_1: I cannot get the hang of it for some reason.

On another note, I like the scale you chose to build this in. Build 'em Big!

TommyL.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 19, 2007 8:28 am 
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View of the bow, now filled + sanded to shape.

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The engine house roof is constructed from 0.75mm sheet.

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The completed funnels are now glued onto the ship (I really should have painted the insides first) and the vertical seam filled + sanded. The fairing at the base is made from Slaters square styrene rod.

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The conning tower is now fitted to the deck. The forward 12pdr gun platform will be fitted on top of this, and the searchlight platform and open bridge just aft of it. The aft portion of the turtleback (either side of the conning tower) has also been added, along with some of the surface detail on the turtleback itself. This area looks rather untidy now as I had to paint the conning tower and part of the deck before fitting the rest of the turtleback.

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The incomplete bridge platform temporarily fitted in position (not glued; I need to add the conning tower hatches first) with a crew figure giving an idea of size. It's made from Slaters 2mm plank textured styrene sheet, glued to a base of 0.75mm sheet (for structural strength) with Evergreen/Slaters detail. The forward portion of this is the platform for the forward 12pdr gun mount, a small searchlight platform will be fitted at the aft end, and the bridge controls are in the middle.
The square support behind the conning tower houses the cables and pipes for the bridge fittings.

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Work started on the torpedo tube mountings. The two smaller discs are the bases for the torpedo tube turntable mounts (these have "castors" which roll along guide rails), and the larger one is the aft 12pdr gun platform, which will be raised above the deck. The gun is on a conical pedestal which goes through the open centre of the platform.
Also visible in this photo are the decklights (small glazed portholes/windows in the deck to let light into the interior of the ship). I haven't drilled out all of these yet.

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Overall view of the ship earlier today. A long way to go yet, but it's definitely starting to look like a TBD!

As the photos I posted today represent a couple of weeks of work, updates will be slower from now on, but I hope to make fairly steady progress with this build, as I have very good references for this ship and it isn't intimidatingly large (about 2"/65cm long) or complex. I'll hopefully post another update in a day or two with the most recent additions (gun platforms, aft steering position, and porthole eyebrows)

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 19, 2007 8:37 am 
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Schnellboot wrote:
Very interesting...

It has the same shape of the bow - "turtleback" - as the SMS "Velebit" that I'm building, but it is understandable when you know that SMS "Huszar" - first ship in SMS "Velebit"s class was build in England in 1905. ...


Interesting - do you know what yard it was built by? There may be some information on it in the Chatham book.

Regarding the similarity in appearance to TBDs of other nations, most destroyers of this period were basically similar in design, with the turtleback bow, multiple funnels and minimal superstructure. Later designs (certainly in the RN) had more in the way of built-up bridge superstructures - Velox and most of its contemporaries just has an open platform above the enclosed conning tower.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 19, 2007 8:57 am 
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Huszar class destroyers - 14 ships, were build between 1905. and 1912. First ship was a prototype, build in England - Yarrow, and was named "Huszar". All other ships of that class were build in Austro-Hungarian empire using the plans made in England.


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 24, 2007 8:22 am 
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Another update at last. Also check the last post on page 1 (if you missed it) for the second update.

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Next I added the "eyebrows" (also known as rigoles) to the hull portholes. This was a fairly tedious job as there are so many of them (50 or so) but actually making the eyebrows was easy: I wrapped fine copper wire around a drill bit (slightly larger in diameter than the one used to drill out the portholes) until I had a neat coil of wire. After removing the wire from the drill I used cutters to slice off semi-circles of wire, which were glued in place with CA.
This technique can be used in virtually any scale, by changing the size of the drill bit and the gauge of the copper/brass wire. I've even seen it done in 1/700 though this is certainly beyond my skill!
Glazing will be added to the portholes after I've painted the hull.

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Hatches for the conning tower are cut from 0.5mm sheet with detail from Evergreen and copper wire. The hinge and catch detail is conjectural as it isn't shown on the plans, and I don't have any photos. The size and location of the handles is definitely correct however.

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The bridge platform is glued in place after pre-painting the area. This makes the model look rather "messy" but it is much easier to paint enclosed areas before assembly!

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Aft 12pdr platform fitted in place on its supports. Again, the deck and underside of the platform is painted beforehand.

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Finally, a photo giving an idea of the relative size of the model. The Schnellboot is 1/72, the Maille-Breze (1950s French destroyer) is 1/400, and the two cruisers (HMS Belfast and Suffolk) are 1/600. As you can see, a TBD in 1/96 isn't too big - if you can find room for two CAs or BBs in 1/600 or 1/700, you can probably find room for this.

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On the other hand, this shows the model in comparison with a roughly similar ship - SMS V-108 - in 1/400 (Mirage kit). In 1/700 it would only be 7-8cm long.

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 29, 2007 3:19 pm 
Nice subject, thank you to share your experience.
About deck paint I have a photo of Viper in drydock showing black hull bet light colored hull (whte, yellow???).

Any info from specialists on this (as well as for RN destroyers during WW1) would be greatly appreciated :wave_1:


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 30, 2007 3:28 am 
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Big is great!


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 30, 2007 4:50 am 
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Moomoon,

Have a look here for pre- and WW1 warship colours.
http://www.gwpda.org/naval/s0700000.htm
http://www.gwpda.org/naval/s1200000.htm

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