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625 ton Venetian Carrack, circa 1450 in 1/700
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Author:  Tom L. [ Mon Oct 19, 2009 10:37 pm ]
Post subject:  625 ton Venetian Carrack, circa 1450 in 1/700
This is my first attempt at scratchbuilding; carracks are a ship type perhaps nearer and dearer to my heart then even my beloved pre-dreadnoughts.

In the Conway's History Of The Ship volume "Cogs, Caravels, and Galleons", length and beam, among other dimensional tidbits, are given for a carrack listed in the Timbotta Manuscript, 140 feet by 38.6 feet.

This gives a length to beam ratio of roughly 3.6:1, a tad on the narrow side from what I've read about carracks, but it's exactly the ratio that Bjorn Landstrom gives in his book "The Ship" for a ship of 125 feet in the same manuscript.

The stempost is mentioned as being 51 feet above the keel, and 12 feet taller then the sternpost...I've been a little dismayed by the appearance of my work so far, the amount of freeboard seems extraordinary, but the height of the stem above the waterline scales out to 34 feet; guesstimation makes me think that 16 feet of draught is in the "acceptable" range...

Here's the Timbotta Manuscript illustration I'm using as my guide:
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The amount of curvature in the sheer strake seems excessive to me, too excessive; I'll be playing around with that.

Masting and rigging will be based on WA's "Kraeck" woodcut of circa 1468, with some free interpretation as needed/desired.

I began with seven layers of .020" Evergreen stock laminated together, and roughed some lower hull contours into it forming a raft.
Doubting the dimensions I mentioned above, went with a straightforward 3:1 length to beam ratio.
It didn't look "right", yet I persevered and began adding and shaping by eye some templated onto the raft.

It was looking even less satisfying.

I pared about .080" of beam off of my beginning, creating a very slab sided and awkward looking thing, with ratios more fitting for an 18th century frigate, so I re-introduced some beam in the form of slabs of .020" stock slapped to the sides, remembered that I didn't take into account the amount of overhang the stempost has in the overall length, so I removed the appropriate amount of stern, and went to work with the sandpaper to achieve this hull shape, up to the upper deck:
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A little forward motion with the fitting of the of the stern counter piece (correct term?) with the tiller opening:
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You can see where I've marked the locations for false ribs that will be visible; I'm only going a semi plank-on-frame route; it uses less plastic, mail order is my only source for Evergreen stock, and I'm impatient!
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Author:  JWintjes [ Tue Oct 20, 2009 3:52 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 625 ton Venetian Carrack, circa 1450 in 1/700
Looking very promising! :thumbs_up_1:

Jorit
Author:  maxim [ Wed Oct 21, 2009 11:50 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 625 ton Venetian Carrack, circa 1450 in 1/700
A very interesting project! :thumbs_up_1:
Author:  Tom L. [ Fri Oct 23, 2009 8:53 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 625 ton Venetian Carrack, circa 1450 in 1/700
maxim wrote:
A very interesting project! :thumbs_up_1:

Well, your wonderful work is my primary inspiration for even trying this. :wave_1:

Little update:

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Author:  maxim [ Mon Oct 26, 2009 1:31 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 625 ton Venetian Carrack, circa 1450 in 1/700
Tom L. wrote:
maxim wrote:
A very interesting project! :thumbs_up_1:

Well, your wonderful work is my primary inspiration for even trying this.


Thank you. You even depict the frames :thumbs_up_1:
Author:  Tom L. [ Mon Oct 26, 2009 7:44 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 625 ton Venetian Carrack, circa 1450 in 1/700
Yeah...I figured that since I was low on plastic, framing it, as opposed to a solid hull, would conserve on raw materials.

Believe me, I'm paying for my stingy ways; to call this a steep learning curve would be a gross understatement.

I believe I'll hold off on posting any more in-progress photos until I get tthe hull fully planked and some paint on it; and to see if I can actually pull this off, it looks like quite the mess right now. :frown_2:
Author:  maxim [ Tue Oct 27, 2009 1:09 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 625 ton Venetian Carrack, circa 1450 in 1/700
Tom L. wrote:
I believe I'll hold off on posting any more in-progress photos until I get tthe hull fully planked and some paint on it; and to see if I can actually pull this off, it looks like quite the mess right now. :frown_2:


No, probably you will get useful hints, if you explain the difficulties and problems - and least others could learn from them.
Author:  Tom L. [ Tue Oct 27, 2009 8:38 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 625 ton Venetian Carrack, circa 1450 in 1/700
maxim wrote:
No, probably you will get useful hints, if you explain the difficulties and problems - and least others could learn from them.
Who am I to argue with that?
:thumbs_up_1:
These are bigger images; all of my problems so far stem from lack of planning, haste, and sloppiness.
Next time, if I go a similar route, I'll plank first, and THEN add the wales! :heh:


The stern, cleaning this up will be a chore, but not too horrid I hope.
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The bow; light shining through the .005" (.013mm) planks looks worse here than it actually is, but that's not saying a great deal. Paint, and paint thinned with Future, should seal up some of those smaller gaps, and not look completely awful, I hope.
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Here you can see some real problem areas; I've got some ideas on how to alieviate some of the massive gaps (Americana "Whitewash" acrylic paint is good for sealing small gaps and easy to sand), but it won't be what I was after.
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Author:  Cadman [ Wed Oct 28, 2009 8:43 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 625 ton Venetian Carrack, circa 1450 in 1/700
Tom L. wrote:
The bow; light shining through the .005" (.013mm) planks looks worse here than it actually is, but that's not saying a great deal. Paint, and paint thinned with Future, should seal up some of those smaller gaps, and not look completely awful, I hope.


I'll bet that looks very realistic when you get it painted. These ships were not constructed in modern shipyards and I think they should have a rough look to them.
Author:  maxim [ Wed Oct 28, 2009 1:43 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 625 ton Venetian Carrack, circa 1450 in 1/700
To close gaps I am often using wax. It is much easier to apply to difficult to reach gaps than putty - and is also not necessary to sand. But some of the gaps are probably difficult to reach. Also PVAC glue is alternative - it could be applied (thinned down with water) using a brush. Sometimes it is easier to start again - even though is very difficult to abandon an already started model. But I would first try to close these gaps and check how the hull look like after painting...
Author:  Tom L. [ Thu Nov 12, 2009 4:18 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 625 ton Venetian Carrack, circa 1450 in 1/700
Update:
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Splashed a little black on it to see what it might look like in the end:
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It is a tiny little thing:
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Starboard side planked:
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Beginning some *actual* paintwork:
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Thinner planking for the forecastle:
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Sloping weather "deck" substructure for the forecastle; a very diagnostic a feature for carracks...
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Notch for forecastle:
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Planking the forward "weather deck"
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Hole for anchor "securing bit" visible:
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This will have a more stylised appearance than I'd hoped when finished, I think...I have a scheme to possibly use that to my advantage, but that will mean that I haven't even really begun this project yet! :crazy:
Author:  Gone Asiatic [ Fri Nov 13, 2009 8:09 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 625 ton Venetian Carrack, circa 1450 in 1/700
Feature the end project in a diorama with a like-scale sea-beast; `cause that would be sssooo cool!
Author:  maxim [ Fri Nov 13, 2009 12:43 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 625 ton Venetian Carrack, circa 1450 in 1/700
Very impressive! Your method of planking is obviously working! And you even planked the forward superstructure and the decks! :thumbs_up_1:
Author:  Pieter [ Fri Nov 13, 2009 1:29 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 625 ton Venetian Carrack, circa 1450 in 1/700
This is very, very nice. I'm looking forward to the next step in your build.
Author:  Tom L. [ Sat Nov 14, 2009 7:03 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 625 ton Venetian Carrack, circa 1450 in 1/700
Thanks guys!

This thing is driving me nuts; one day I want to pitch it in the garbage, the next I'm thinking I may be onto something. :wacko:

Gone Asiatic wrote:
Feature the end project in a diorama with a like-scale sea-beast; `cause that would be sssooo cool!
You! Outta my head, right now! :big_grin:

I'm thinking a little bit of this, and a little bit of this...replacing the religious imagery with Venetian, if not something a little creepy.

It's going to take me a year or more to finish, but I'm obsessed with it. :thinking:
Author:  maxim [ Sun Nov 15, 2009 3:36 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 625 ton Venetian Carrack, circa 1450 in 1/700
A Diorama with a sea monster?

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http://www.modellmarine.de/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=2178:erdinger-modellbautage-2009&catid=215:ausstellungen&directory=4345

I think that your model is too good for this! If you would have used an available kit, it's a nice diorama. But using a scratch built model? No, it is better to present it alone or at least as the focus in a diorama.
Author:  Tom L. [ Sat Dec 05, 2009 2:11 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 625 ton Venetian Carrack, circa 1450 in 1/700
Point taken, maxim!

Still, it's an awfully fun thought, and I'm definitely married to the idea of making a gothic-style, monstrance inspired display case for it.

Here's a puny and belated update:
Large anchor-belaying crosstimber and trim to forecastle "weather deck":
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Roughing-in the quarter-deck:
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Looking forward:
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Quarter deck with faked-in support beams and companionway hatch, main-deck cargo hatch under construction, and main-deck windlass:
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Author:  moomoon [ Sat Dec 05, 2009 2:50 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 625 ton Venetian Carrack, circa 1450 in 1/700
:woo_hoo: I like the deck painting very much!
Author:  Pieter [ Sun Dec 06, 2009 7:59 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 625 ton Venetian Carrack, circa 1450 in 1/700
Very nice. How are you going to build the forecastle ? It looked like a real caste on these ships, right?
Author:  Tom L. [ Sun Dec 06, 2009 1:20 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 625 ton Venetian Carrack, circa 1450 in 1/700
Pieter wrote:
Very nice. How are you going to build the forecastle ? It looked like a real caste on these ships, right?
In these early-mid 15th century versions, the forecastle was normally just a single level built on a very high bow, later types had the multi-storey, mind boggling tower-like castles.
Attachment:
Timbotta ms 1.jpg
Timbotta ms 1.jpg [ 15.47 KiB | Viewed 3559 times ]

The sketch I'm basing it on shows it to be mostly open latticework, with an anti-boarding net support structure above.
I've been thinking about how I'm going to achieve it, and the stern castle is going to need a similar construct, too.
Cutting plastic sheet down to a useable size is going to stretch the material's utility to just about the breaking point, but, in my opinion, I don't know what else is going to capture the right "look", if not "feel".
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