The Ship Model Forum

What ship is this? I'm tempted to label it the French torpilleur MARCEAU, formerly the Z-31 of the Kriegsmarine, but the bridge is quite off.

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If all else fails, a complete pig-headed refusal to see facts in the face will see us through. - General Melchett

Hi Michel,

Are you able to date the photo and where it was taken?

Does the hull paint job tell you anything?

Russ

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Russ

I'm afraid I have no date or location. This image was posted on a Dutch forum without any other data. Hull paint jobs usually tell me nothing more than that it's a hull and it is painted.

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If all else fails, a complete pig-headed refusal to see facts in the face will see us through. - General Melchett

Maybe ORP Błyskawica

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"Only two sailors, in my experience, never ran aground. One never left
port and the other was an atrocious liar."
-Don Bamford

Of the bridge design hardly a former Z-class unless the bridge was heavily modified.
Parking lessons required for the helmsman though!!!!!

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"Build few and build fast,
Each one better than the last"
John Fisher

I'd say it's an Evarts/Cannon/Buckley DE - bridge fits to that.

Jorit

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Here's USN DE



I don't see a match.
To me the hull paint says WWII Admiralty.

I'll see if someone in UK can help.

Russ

I thought the bow looked like some Polish vessels, however the HMS Afridi (F 07) looks close to it as well.
http://www.uboat.net/allies/warships/ship/4422.html

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"Only two sailors, in my experience, never ran aground. One never left
port and the other was an atrocious liar."
-Don Bamford

Ok, some hard facts.

I see it can't be a DE - step in the hull (RN used DEs in the war, so camouflage is not necessarily a good guidance). The gun in A position is a single, doesn't look bigger than a 4in, with boxy gun shield. Has attachments for flare rockets. In B position there are 2 light AA guns which look like 20mm Oerlikons.

It's the high bridge that looks slightly odd.

Hm.

Perhaps some sort of escort conversion of a pre-H class destroyer?

Jorit

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Hm, let's assume it's indeed British. Then the conversion is unusual in that A gun instead of B gun was retained. I'd say HMNLS Marnix, but the bow doesn't fit.

Jorit

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Could it be a Danish or French ship??

The design of the stem would be unusual for a destroyer from a major WWII naval power. Most WWII destroyers have stems that remain quite sharp all the way to deck level. Destroyer stems from Britain and US also tend to be nearly straight. This ship had a curved stem that flares out quite a bit to a more rounded edge near the top.

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Assessing the impact of new area rug under modeling table.

I'm puzzled. I think this ship is a post-war French vessel. Note the paint scheme and hull number (which I can't read) used in the immediate post-war. But, I can't match her to any particular ship/class ... but she appears to be destroyer size ... one of the 1,500 ton class?? She doesn't appear to be an ex-German ship. So many ships were retained by the French in the immediate post-war era (some pretty old and used for training) that had been modified and many served for other navies during the war, I don't have a clue. I don't have enough photos of French vesels from that era for an ID.

I think it's one of the early post war French ocean escorts . Though the gun makes it look like one of the Italian Gabbianos. They were given high open bridges post WW2.

Weren't the French ships flush-deckers?

Gabbiano sounds interesting; I can't find a picture of these right now.

Jorit

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Well, actually most of the pre-war French Destroyers were not flush-deckers.

Le Triomphant on 17 April 1944 at Boston Navy Yard one of the large French destroyers. When I saw the above mystery photo, I was reminded of this photo, but the mystery ship is smaller. But you can see similarity in design features. Both photos below courtesy of the Charlestown National Park.

Now, if someone can confirm that one of those French ships got a postwar refit where the B gun was replaced with light AA, and name the ship?

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If all else fails, a complete pig-headed refusal to see facts in the face will see us through. - General Melchett

I'm sure your puzzle ship isn't one of the four large destroyers of the Le Fantasque class (of which Le Triomphant is one). They all retained the superimposed gun post-war and the size/configuration are different. Right now, I suspect that the your photo is of one of the few surviving Sloops (maybe Chamois class ... CHEVEREUIL??) or small/light destroyers (La Melpomne class ... less likely) ... but which one is a puzzle to me. I don't have enough photos in my reference books to cover them all or the post-war modifications. The 1953-54 and 1959-60 JANE'S FIGHTING SHIPS has some possibilities, but none show a 100-mm gun forward of the bridge as in your photo. But, replacing that gun with a smaller caliber AA-gun could have been an alteration made after the photo was taken.

I'm short for time right now, but this ship has some strong similarities to WWII Soviet Destroyers . It is clearly post war. The gun mount, and the bridge, the step in the hull all fit. Including the wind baffles at the top of the bridge. It's a path worth looking into. The background looks very Leningrad as well.

Bob B.

From: David Page <david@navyphotos.co.uk>View Contact
To: RAMoody <russ2146@yahoo.com>
Hi Russ,

It's a bit of pity that the angle is so foreshortened as it looks as if there could be a Pennant No. on her side. The shape of her forward mounting looks a bit on the lines of an RN one and there is a seaman standing nearby in what could be a white RN hat and a boiler suit.

I did think it may have been one of the U.S built versions of the "River Class", known to us as the "Colony Class", but she seems too short for that. Then I thought of one of the "Captain Class" as she does look a bit on those lines with the rounded front to the bridge and the twin oerlikons in front of it, but I think most of them had superimposed forward guns and this one looks to have only the one mounting.

About the best I could suggest you try now is to go to this site from here http://www.worldnavalships.com/forums/ and put your photo and question in the relevant section. I think you would get an answer back in a few days, certainly her type, if not the whole "where, why, who, how and when" !!

Sorry I can't be of more help but do let me know how you get on with your search.

Best wishes,

Dave.

Which happens to be a US DE...

This is really an interesting riddle - I still have no idea what that could be.

Jorit

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