The Ship Model Forum

Mike, good close up photos of Hornet's forward port side of the island are like the Holy Grail. I've not found good closeups in several decades of making Hornet my pet research project. (Holy Grail part 2 is good starboard side photo of the 20mm battery alongside the island after it was up-gunned from four to my estimated eight guns in July 1942. I can see the black spots from distant photos, but haven't found close ups yet!) I DO have an exceptional drawing by artist Tom Lea of the PriFly area, from a wartime Life magazine issue. Tom's art is almost photo-realistic. I'm certain he used personal photos to create the art. One thing he did do, no doubt to appease the Navy, was to carefully omit all radar antenna and camoflauge details. Also, if you look at many of the photos of Capt. Mitscher looking at the Tokyo Raid launch from this perch, you can follow the railing shape and see the opening where the steps were. There is a pilorus up there as well. Send me a PM with your e-mail address. I'll crank out a scan or two.

Mike Vorrasi

At the Maryland Silver website. Scroll down on the page linked above and you'll find books for CV-5, 6 and 8.

I picked up the book several months back. There is literally too much information in the thing!

-Devin

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We like our history sanitized and theme-parked and self-congratulatory, not bloody and angry and unflattering. - Jonathan Yardley

Martin asked:
Lately I have been working on the hull, rebuilding the hangar deck sides and the gallery deck. I will have some pictures of this in a day or so. In the meantime, based on feedback, I made a few further corrections to the island. Mike Vorrasi sent me some very useful material that illustrates the ladder that extended from the roof of pri-fly to the nav bridge. In the course of studying this I realized I had made a dimensional error in the construction of the platform that surrounds the director housing atop the charthouse. The platform was corrected and the windbreak on its rear face now extend across the island as it should. The solid-decked 36” searchlight platforms on the sides of the stack were replaced with perforated deck material, greatly improving their appearance. John W. has gently pointed out that all of the deck plating of the flag and nav bridges was constructed of perforated plate. I don’t have the heart to tear the whole thing apart and rebuild again, but others may want to make this correction.
Here are photos illustrating the alterations. (Primer has been applied to check for flaws in some of the joints.)



Happy modeling!
Mike

Here are pictures of work-in -progress on the hull, hangar, and galleries of my 1/350 HORNET.
I had posted a description of my method of correcting the lines of the hull on this site some time ago. The work was done prior to obtaining the Maryland Silver plan book. When I started examining the kit’s hangar deck parts using the MS plans for reference, I found that the 5” sponsons would have to be repositioned. This necessitated reworking the hull once again to blend them in. Before I reapplied primer I took the opportunity to photograph the laminated plastic block construction I used when correcting the hull lines. The first, rather ugly photo shows this. The kit hangar sides are still installed at this time, with a crude first attempt to correct them.
Comparison with the MS plans revealed that the problems I found with the island are repeated in the hangar and gallery deck parts: While “looking like” HORNET, virtually everything is dimensionally off. The moldings are crisp, but shapes and details are inaccurate and overly simplified. I saw little purpose in super-detailing an overpriced toy, so I undertook scratch building new hangar deck sides. This was easier than trying to correct the kit parts. Most of the construction consists of simple flat bulkheads and their bracing stanchions. The only tricky part is cross-checking the dimensions in the profile and plan views and ensuring that the geometry is correct. The kit’s crude and inaccurate representation of the gallery deck is eliminated. A fresh start can be made to correctly represent this complex and highly visible area, and I am now beginning this work. John W. has been extremely helpful, providing me with reference photos of the CV-5 builder’s model.
I want to depict an open hangar deck, with most of the roller curtains raised. I am using the Tom’s Model Works hangar deck detail set, modified to fit my scratch built parts. (WEM also makes a set for this, but it lacks the resin parts included in the Tom’s set.) I have the Nautilus wood flight deck. Others have noted that this is too short, and I can confirm this. The majority of the error is aft of the aft elevator. Compared to the kit deck, there are still some differences forward. Both decks depict the incorrect spacing of the 1.1” mounts, reflecting the CV- 5/6 arrangement. I found to my delight that when I had corrected the dimensions of the hangar and galleries, the Nautilus deck fit almost perfectly. It will still require a spliced on section aft to bring it to the proper length and minor (but tricky) repositioning of the island and 1.1” mounts. ($$$$ tip: Nautilus makes small sections of flight deck suitable for displaying a single 1/350 scale aircraft. These are much cheaper than purchasing an entire second deck to get the required length.)
I began posting to the HORNET page to share info about the ship as I incorporated it into the model. The post was moved (appropriately) and now seems to be morphing into a “build-up” thread. If others continue to find it of interest, I’ll keep posting.






Devin asked:
WEM and GMM make perforated walkway sets for the kit. I am using the GMM. I have been haunting model railroad shops looking for matching PE material to make extra sections. I've come close, but the only exact match was a small section I had on hand (source unknown). HINT HINT HINT to Loren: Scratchbuilder's would love to be able to purchase a generic fret of this stuff!

Elvis965 asked:
No, Bob, and I'm still looking! The GMM CXAM is rather2-D, I would love to hear from anyone with the WEM set who won't be using those parts (CXAM wasn't on the ship before 7/42), willing to sell or trade.
-Mike

I finally bit the bullet and paid 80 euros for the HP CV8 1942 kit. I have measured the hull and it comes out to exactly the correct length (13 14/16 in.) from tip of foc'sl to tip of fantail. It is a bit short on the waterline length, probably due to a little exaggerated curve to the stern, but this won't show in a waterline diorama as the wake will cover it. The hull has the correct fine lines at the bow and the correct reverse tumblehome along the sides at the hangar deck level. Unfortunately the flight deck is in three sections split through the fore and after elevators. This is interesting as a wire in the forward and the after arresting gear is located exactly over the seam and can be used to hide it! If this was deliberate planning on the part of the master builder, it was an ingenious solution to the problem. I am very happy with the basic shapes, and I will scratch all the detail parts anyway. Does anyone have an opinion on whether Tamiya or Trumpeter has the better B-25? HP has CV8 on sale for 80 euros versus 150 euros! for CV5 and 6.

Here's a start:
Yorktown and Enterprise were built about the same time and were nearly identical. Hornet, being built much later, included several design improvements based upon her sisters' operational experience.
The major differences are:
Shape of the bridge and other island features
Hornet was built with Mk-37 directors. These directors were heavy, so to compensate, Hornet's tripod mast and platforms were built lighter therefore the platforms do not have the characteristic framing seen on Yorktown and Enterprise.
Hornet's forward flight deck is wider at the bow
Hornet's hull porthole pattern is different than her sisters as built
The forward face of Hornet's funnel is different.

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-Steve L.

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Steve, just to clarify one point. Hornet's tripod and tripod platforms were built identically to CV-5 and CV-6 in their AS BUILT configuration. Long before CV-8 commissioned, Yorktown and Enterprise had their lower tripod platforms built up and the forward end enclosed. CV-8 on the other hand, had her lower tripod platform cut down by removing most of the aft section and taking two slices off the forward section at the 10 o'clock and 2 o'clock positions. The upper platform was not reduced, and is the same shape in plan view and dimensions, but it tends to look a little different because of differences in railing and solid wind screen arrangements between CV-8 and her sisters. The weight reduction sought on CV-8 was not for the Mk 37's, which were already there as built, but rather, increased radar and AA installations.

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Mike

I had high hopes for this book, given that the author, Robert Stern, had done a fine job on his Lexington Class hardcover book published by the USNI. I was sorely disappointed in this new "In Action" series. It is basically one giant cut and paste job from commonly used internet sites, and includes all of the usual glaring oft-repeated errors in Yorktown class data. All of the photos are available to anyone with a PC. I did not see a single one that is not available on line. Indeed, all of the grainy low-detail reproductions look like low-resolution downloads of internet photos.

As examples of the errors, we have the usual misquoted OA length figure of 809 feet (which was the hull length only for all three) for CV-5 and 6, while CV-8's flight deck length figure is quoted at 824.9", but then, that was the right figure for actual overall length of all 3. Hornet's cylindrical director tub in front of her island for her #2 1.1" quad is described as a prominent armored conning tower! (A mistake I've seen in other places). The flight deck length of 802 feet is misleading, as it includes only the flat surface. (Hint, measure the official USN plans- 816 feet from the ends of the ramps!) The width given of 86ft. is the available width of the flight deck from port side wall of the island to the edge, instead of the proper overall width figure of 109 ft., but at least it is stated as such...it goes on and on. Hornet gets the shortest shrift of all.

The author seems confused about the Enterprise and Yorktown navigation bridge as well, stating that Enterprise had the nav bridge reduced in size in 1942, enclosed and splinter shielded. Not so. Her nav bridge remained as built until 10/43. He believes Yorktown's external degaussing cables were added after Coral Sea and just before Midway. I've got photos of her entering Pearl on 27May42 with the cables in evidence. In fact, the photo he used on top of page 14 shows them in place as she enters Pearl on that date. The color line drawings have numerous detail errors. CV-6's drawings look more like CV-8, including a CV-8 style forward flight deck (a reversal of the usual error!) You get the idea. Minimal research.

In short, if you seek reliable data on the Yorktowns, and good photos, read this forum and surf the net. Save your money!

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Mike

Santa brought me Trump's 1/350 Hornet, so now I'm searching for good references. I'm planning to model her as she appeared for the Doolittle raid.

First of all, a big thank you for this thread. Since I'm mostly an aircraft modeler, this thread has been a goldmine.

I already have the Warship Pictorial, and I've found several other books online...

Shipcraft 4 - Yorktown Class Aircraft Carriers
Warship Profile #3 USS Hornet, by Commander William H. Cracknell, USN
Squadron Yorktown Class In Action

I'd appreciate some guidance about these titles... are they worthwhile? Particularly Shipcraft... $22 for 64 pages is rather steep, so I don't want to buy it blindly. As far as modeling skills go, I'm proficient with PE and resin as well as plastic, so if it's just basic techniques and tips it probably won't help me a lot. OTOH, naval or ship-specific tips would be very helpful.

I'm still deciding whose PE to use, but I'm leaning towards GMM. I've used it before (currently building Jeremiah O'Brien), and Loren has provided great customer service.

Thanks for your assistance!

Peter

Hi Peter,

I have Shipcraft 4, and can give you a brief synopsis.

Basically it gives a short history of each ship of the class, then moves on to discuss the good/bad points of the available models, and also talks about the aftermarket accesseories available.

The main part of the book is devoted to color pictures of completed models. There is a Revell 1/480 Yorktown, a couple of Trumpy Hornets, a YKM/BWN Yorktown, and several builds of the YKM/BWN Enterprise.

There are historical photos scattered throughout the book as well, but if you have Steve Wiper's pictorial history, then you pretty much already have those.

Unless you REALLY want to see a couple of nice builds of the Trumpy Hornet, I would say that it doesn't give you much more info than the book you already have.

And there are some terrific builds in the MWS.com gallery already. Here are a couple of my favorites:

http://www.modelshipgallery.com/gallery/cv/cv-08/350-kz/kz-index.html
http://www.modelshipgallery.com/gallery/cv/cv-08/350-lc/lc-index.html
http://www.modelshipgallery.com/gallery/cv/cv-08/350-pvb/cv8-index.html

HTH

Bob

Thanks for your insight, Bob. That's exactly what I needed to know!

Those builds are truly awe-inspiring, not to mention intimidating. If mine is anywhere close to those I'll be quite happy.

Peter

Mike,

Any progress on your Hornet? Inquiring minds want to know!

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Martin

"Tomorrow is the most important thing in life. Comes into us at midnight very clean. It's perfect when it arrives and it puts itself in our hands. It hopes we've learned something from yesterday." John Wayne

Ship Model Gallery

Hi Martin!

I posted some more pix on the "island Rebuild" thread afterI started the rework of the gallery deck and hangar sides last summer. But after six months of steady work on the ship, I hit a wall. Hornet has been back in the box while I change pace and work on my more usual wingie thingies (at least they're naval aircraft!) I've learned to go where my interest points me, and not to fight myself. My projects may drag on, but I always have fun! My interest will rekindle soon, and I'll return to Hornet with enthusiasm.

Mike

Mike,

It's all about having fun! My projects drag on for the same reason. Look forward to when you get the urge to return to Hornet, I'm sure it will be worth the wait.

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Martin

"Tomorrow is the most important thing in life. Comes into us at midnight very clean. It's perfect when it arrives and it puts itself in our hands. It hopes we've learned something from yesterday." John Wayne

Ship Model Gallery

Just got my Maryland Silver plan book- really pleased. When was Hornet's flight deck modified to include the aft notches for the 20mm mounts? Was any other change made to the ramp or the deck, or were the notches just cut out? Does anyone have plans which show the width of the remaining ramp after this alteration? Thanks, John

John, Hornet had her stern ramp 20mm tubs installed before she left Norfolk. They are present in photos taken of her at the wharf in Norfolk in February 1942, and these tubs are visible on Hornet in the Tokyo Raid photos. She was the first of the class to get this upgrade. Yorktown was lost before these were added. Enterprise got hers in July 1942. Enterprise had a second paid added inboard of the two original corner ones after Eastern Solomons. I don't have the exact width of the notches, but jut judging visually, it would be the same width an any of the individual tub arcs on the gallery deck catwalk batteries. No official plans exist that anybody has yet found of all of the 1942 armament upgrades. I did a modification on my copy Tom Walkowiak's 1942 CV-8 drawing to add them (he left them out). Tom's plan is a modification of the original USN "as commissioned" set found in the Maryland Silver book. He got most of the 20mm's right but forgot the two aft corner ones and the one in the catwalk just aft of the LSO platform, as well as slightly mislocating the one directly opposite the LSO platform on the starboard side aft catwalk.

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Mike

A gentlemen identifying himself only as "David O." posted the amazing photo below of Hornet with Doolittle's Raiders aboard on Hyperscale.

A few very interesting things to note:
1. two SBDs parked among the B-25 Mitchells
2. a smaller aircraft parked on the port side aft (it may be another SBD). You can make out the rudder stripes which are barely visible under the engine of the aft-most port side B-25.
3. the proximity of the escort
4. look at the B-25 wingtip visible in the bottom right of the photo. It appears to have war games crosses somewhat painted out.
5. None of the B-25 propellers have yellow tips.
6. Some B-25s have their dorsal turrets covered, others do not.

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Have fun, Monkey around.™

-Steve L.

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As built, the overhead of prifly consisted of a series of six glass panels. When Hornet's prifly was rebuilt with the port side angled inward, what was done with this overhead. It looks like it was solid with a railing so that it could be walked on. Does anyone know for sure?

Judging by the pelorus on it, the railing, and the well known photo of Capt. Mitscher standing up there watching the Doolittle raiders take off, I'd say you could walk on it! (It had a ladder going up the front from the navigation bridge.) BTW, the actual structure was relocated from the original as-built one. The original sat midway between the flag bridge and the navigation bridge levels. The rebuilt one was located a bit higher at nav bridge level.

Note the railings along the top of prifly. In the second photo, the railing is covered with a canvas wind dodger.

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Mike

With the anniversary of the Doolittle Raid last week, I was perusing some websites and looking at photos of the raid and of the Hornet. There are some really good photos on the John Greaves Art website, some that I've never seen before. One thing I think I noticed - did Hornet have any deck markings at Midway? In the photos on the aforementioned site, it looks like the deck is overall 250N, with no markings.

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Martin

"Tomorrow is the most important thing in life. Comes into us at midnight very clean. It's perfect when it arrives and it puts itself in our hands. It hopes we've learned something from yesterday." John Wayne

Ship Model Gallery