The Ship Model Forum

Thank you Michael, yes this does help and maybe Tracy will give his opion also...
looking at the new dragon korean war carriers, I wonder if they would be a good match since they seem to have the enclosed bridge structure already.
Armament wise I am sure she was still very close to WWII. My Dad was in charge of the port bow 20mm gallery...... He remembers it well, as one of his marines was installing the barrel of a gun and it was flung over the side! He also tells me that the bow 40mm was lost durring a typhoon Boxer went thru just before he came aboard.... and of the great big wrench welded to the stern for removing the propellers, I will have to locate that and make sure that wrench is on his model.... as well as a 20mm with missing barrel.

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Dan
Field Artillery, King of Battle
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Dan,

Well since I last posted I found this site http://www.defenselink.mil/multimedia/, its the official site and the photos are huge, in the search at top right type Boxer or Korea, then just hit next several times to scroll though the images, there in date order so your stuff will be near the end, there are some good Boxer images, the data seems to go back to Korea but there are some WWII images in there as well of Essex class carriers, most of the images have appeared at Nav source but these are not 800x600, there 3000x2400, excellent for details and modeling.

Heres aa link to the stern shot of Boxer in Korea http://www.dodmedia.osd.mil/DefenseLINK ... -07246.JPG click on the download high res image and enjoy.

Regarding weapons, it looks like a lot of the 20mm were removed during the war, l'm aiming for 1951 as it gives me the best TF-77 options for my virtual set up, ie several WWII Essex candidates as well as Essex in SCB27A format, and interesting CA, CL and CLAA vessels. Some images I have from 53 show almost all the 20mm removed from the port side, certainly those midships went first, those on the bow catwalk lasting the longest, watch out for that extra platform added just aft of the port bow 20mm platfrom and in front of the 5" sponson, l'm not sure whays mouinted on there but it looks like some sort of antenna or new weapons training device, maybe for the 5" guns ?. You'll also need to remove the WWII style radio masts and fit whip antennas, also the Mk51 director tub between the bridge and #2 5"/38 turret needs to be removed.

Boxer does seem to have an extra 20mm starboard cat walk platform added, opposite the one where your father worked, but all Korean images I have show it devoid of weapons, yet the original starboard bow catwalk one retains its WWII 20mm fit.

Also, go here http://www.history.navy.mil/branches/boxer.htm for Korea Boxer war reports, your father may well get mentioned or the missing weapons detailed, certainly the bow Quad loss should be in the minutes of one of the reports, the reports are usually quite detailed and l've got most of TF-77 vessel deployments for 1951 from these reports by reference and cross reference of each carrier and its deployments, I havent worked through the Escort carriers yet though.. If you like Korea and like Essex ships then these are a must, the full vessel list is here http://www.history.navy.mil/branches/carrier.htm.

Hope that helps a little more.

Best

Michael

Guys, just so you all know, I have paid very little attention to the post-war essexes; their details are a project I would like to do in the future, but I lack the capital right now to do anything other than just the wartime ships.

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Tracy White -Researcher@Large

"Let the evidence guide the research. Do not have a preconceived agenda which will only distort the result."
-Barbara Tuchman

If you guys head over to the Picture Post page and look for "Carrier Builders - What's on the Slipway", you'll find a reprint of a Ray Bean article on Essex class carriers and the 27C rebuild.

On this page.

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Tracy White -Researcher@Large

"Let the evidence guide the research. Do not have a preconceived agenda which will only distort the result."
-Barbara Tuchman

I've posted pics of my completed Revell 1/542 Essex-class kit herehttp://www.shipmodels.info/mws_forum/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=18158&start=453. I've built it as USS Wasp for a former co-worker who served aboard her. Please don't beat me up over details - it was built from a salvaged kit and I used stuff I had on hand to complete her.

Gentlemen,

I have a question about the USS Boxer CV-21. I'm going to do her as she was in 1951 during the Korean War for a man who was aboard her at that time. In my notes I have her down as having a long flight deck. Can anyone confirm this for me?

TIA

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Gordon


"Then there was one patched-up carrier...."
Vice Admiral Thomas A. Kinkaid

Stefan, what you see in the photos may be something other than 20mm platforms. IIRC from an earlier post by Tracy White, only Essex and Yorktown had those positions when built. Due to vibration problems on the platforms they were omitted from the rest of the class. I'll defer to Tracy to confirm that Hancock did not have them.



Gordon,

USS Boxer CV-21, 1950s: long hull, short flight deck. If you intend to build her in 1/350, use the Trumpeter USS Ticonderoga kit. See:

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-Steve L.

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Gentlrmen,

One more question on the USS Boxer. Does she have an open or closed bridge set-up in 1951?
This will be a 1/700 build.

Steve, thank you for your reply and the pictures.

TIA

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Gordon


"Then there was one patched-up carrier...."
Vice Admiral Thomas A. Kinkaid

Tracy knows Essexes!



NAVSOURCE photos indicate closed.



Hope this helps.

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Have fun, Monkey around.™

-Steve L.

Complete catalog: - https://www.model-monkey.com/
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Gordon,

Boxer had a long hull and long flight deck in 1951 and the bridge was enclosed, the flag bridge is of the semi circular type, see attached render of my virtual model.



Be carefull with Boxer, at some stage she changed her weapons fit quite drasitcally, much of the single 20mm mounts were removed from the bow catwalks, at the same time the bow director tubs changed shape and protruded in front of the flight deck as opposed to flush front from WWII, at the same time new platforms were added for a new type of enclosed motorised director ( unsure exact type ) and it looks like the Quad 40s were removed for a twin barrel mount. All of this I think happened between 1951 and 1953.

You may also wish to go here http://www.history.navy.mil/branches/carrier.htm and look up the Boxers Korean war records, they will help you if you wish to add other vessels.

Best

Michael

Can anyone confirm what color the flightdeck of Boxer was during the Cuban Missile Crisis? i.e. bare wood or blue?

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Sean Hert

As I recall her deck was painted deck blue, I landed on her in a H19 chopper from Kingsvilles NAS on a mail run. I was a ANAO at the that time. Spent a week on the mails runs too all the ships in the area then back to loadmaster of R5D-5s. I joined the Navy in 1960. Cuban Crisis got busy real fast and we made some long flights out to what ships we could reach. "Boats"..

Can someone tell me which gun director is correct for BHR in her Korean fit? This pic was posted on SN:

And this one:

If the dates are right, then the directors are the "wafer"-looking ones as stated in the directions in Step 2D, not the round ones shown in Step 7. Can anyone give a concrete answer. I'm not typically anal about this stuff, but since I still have a chance to change it, I'd like to know. Thanks in advance.

I can't tell you what is correct, but I can shed some light on the differences. In both cases it's a Mk 37 director; the question is what radar was mounted on said director.

The photos you posted (which I'm not sure will stay posted, BTW) are of the Mk 37 director with the Mk 12 & 22 radars fitted; this was a mid-to-late WWII fit. Starting in 1945, some ships in the fleet started to operate with the Mk 28 radar mounted on the Mk 37 director, and post-war more of them received it. It was a round dish antennae, completely different from the earlier shapes.

Obviously, from the photos originally posted on SteelNavy, BHR had the Mk 12 & 22 radars for a number of years after WWII, but I don't know if that stayed true for all of her time in Korean waters. My guess is that Dragon shipped the kit with the original radars as well, since they rarely remove extra parts now.

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Tracy White -Researcher@Large

"Let the evidence guide the research. Do not have a preconceived agenda which will only distort the result."
-Barbara Tuchman

That's a Mk 25 radar actually, isn't it?

Or am I missing something

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Sean Hert

Hmmm I'm actually not 100% sure... I'm not an incredible radar guy. The documentation I've run across at Seattle NARA says Mk 28, but it's pretty fragmented and incomplete.

Regardless, See what you can find for pictures and use the apropos pieces for the time frame you want to depict.

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Tracy White -Researcher@Large

"Let the evidence guide the research. Do not have a preconceived agenda which will only distort the result."
-Barbara Tuchman

Ok, some more stuff - what is the armament of BHR in 1951-2? I'm looking at every photo I can find, and this is my conclusion:
-On the port side, the forward flight-deck level AA guns are there (5 guns), the next section back (for lack of a better term) is empty, as is the next one, and finally, the aft-most one has 4 guns.
-Starboard side, the forward section is empty, the next section has 4 guns, and the aft-most one is empty
-On the stbd side of the island, there are no AA guns
-Also on the starboard side, the two aft-most tubs at hangar deck level are empty.
In regards to other details, are my conclusions right:
-all of the portholes molded in the hull forward of the catapult doors (the 5 arched doors on each side) should be closed up
-According to the 1951 pics I posted, the gun directors have the older style radars, not the round ones provided in the kit.
Does all of this seem right? Can anyone give me a hand here? Since I'm changing stuff around, it might as well look right. Thanks as always in advance - I may even post a pic of a model soon!

Hey JG,
My understanding is BHR didnt get Radar Mk25 until 1955, hope that helps mate.

Happy modeling

looking forward to seeing your work in progress

John

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Si Vis Pacem, Para Bellum

I pre-ordered the Dragon 1/700 CVS-37 and was looking at the Dragon LPH Boxer kit, what external differences are there, if any between the CVS & LPH versions of the Essex class? Anything beyond radars & AA weapons?

TIA,
Jeff

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