The Ship Model Forum

Thanks for all the information. I did a little searching on the web and it
seems that the Enterprise didn't wear measure 11, according to some.
It is said to have gone right to measure 21. Thanks again---John

Measure 11 in it's original form was almost dead as soon as it got going. The Pacific fleet didn't like the 5-S it called for, and the Navy came out with a darker color, 5-N. In November, for example, we see the Atlantic Fleet ordering "Measure 12, using Navy Blue, 5-N paint, in lieu of Sea Blue, 5-S paint." This is essentially Measure 22, but it wasn't officially referred to as Measure 22 until the next summer. Same thing for Measure 11; it was for all intents and purposes Measure 21 from the beginning of 1942 on. That's just when ships repainted, however. There are cases (such as CV-5 Yorktown) of ships that did not repaint for a while after this went into effect.

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Tracy White -Researcher@Large

"Let the evidence guide the research. Do not have a preconceived agenda which will only distort the result."
-Barbara Tuchman

Does anyone know what this structure is? I have some good photos of the builders model (photos were given to me so I can't really share) and this structure is got an open railing around it. Here, the majority of it is enclosed. And why does the support have a large hole through it?

It doesn't show up on any deck plans that I have or in the Maryland Silver book. I think I have enough information to fake it, but I am curious.



Paul

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http://paulbudzik.com/current-projects/Neptune/Lockheed_Neptune_Model_Budzik.html
http://paulbudzik.com/tools-techniques/outside_the_box.html

I believe inside of the top most rectangluar structure is where the cables for the catapults are (I used the Yorktowns plans which can be found here: http://www.hnsa.org/doc/plans/cv5.pdf)


Here's how I scratched it in 1/480

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"Also we will never see a 1/350 late war Enterprise from Dragon due to a paralyzing fear of success...." - Heavy Melder

Lots of unfinished model ships + attention issues = A busy slipway where nothing gets done!

Thanks for the reminder, I had a copy of that booklet, but I haven't been using it (I don't know why because a lot of the information is better than the plans that I purchased).
The outline of the platforms are pretty clear.

Paul

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http://paulbudzik.com/current-projects/Neptune/Lockheed_Neptune_Model_Budzik.html
http://paulbudzik.com/tools-techniques/outside_the_box.html

Anyone know if the flight deck strips were white or yellow when she was in MS32 config in summer of '44? Im pretty sure the flight deck was the blue of stain 21, since it should have been changed from the darker 20B by then, but not sure of the color of the stripes though...

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"Also we will never see a 1/350 late war Enterprise from Dragon due to a paralyzing fear of success...." - Heavy Melder

Lots of unfinished model ships + attention issues = A busy slipway where nothing gets done!

Paul -
The boxed-in areas are to protect the catapult gear and some other equipment (some large cylinders show in some pictures) on the deck. HORNET was built with the protective structures surrounding the mezzanine decks while ENTERPRISE and YORKTOWN were not. My guess is that the focs'l deck turned out to be wetter than expected in service and so the protection was added during the HORNET's construction as the result of lessons learned in the first year or two of the YORKTOWN's and ENTERPRISE's operations. As always, I defer to either Mike Vorrasi or Dick J in the event I have not guessed correctly. By the way, those mezzanine decks are largely supported by cylindrical columns as shown in this photo of YORKTOWN:

The box-shaped structure with the oval hole under the mezzanine deck is actually hollow and has these columns on the four corners. A pair of columns are seen further aft under the mezzanine decks - see the MD Silver plans where they show up as well as the columns which support the cross beams under the flight deck, one of which clearly shows in this picture just above the bollard above the port anchor.

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Some people make you happy, then they leave.
Others make you happy when they leave. (apologies to Oscar Wilde if he ever said anything similar, of which there is some doubt . . .)

John has it right. The structures are to house the catapult machinery. When CV5 and 6 were completed, the deck space was open as the gear had not been installed yet. Once installed, the enclosures were added to CV5 and 6 to protect the machinery. CV8 had the enclosures as built.

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Mike

Mike -
I'm going to PM you with my wife's cell phone number. Would you mind repeating that to her?

_________________
Some people make you happy, then they leave.
Others make you happy when they leave. (apologies to Oscar Wilde if he ever said anything similar, of which there is some doubt . . .)

For the right fee, I'll tell her whatever you want!

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Mike

It won't matter, she won't believe either of you any way.

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Tracy White -Researcher@Large

"Let the evidence guide the research. Do not have a preconceived agenda which will only distort the result."
-Barbara Tuchman

Here's what I used on my spare flight deck. The stripes are too big and few, but wanted to see the color combo. Thoughts on color accuracy?

_________________
"Also we will never see a 1/350 late war Enterprise from Dragon due to a paralyzing fear of success...." - Heavy Melder

Lots of unfinished model ships + attention issues = A busy slipway where nothing gets done!

None from me; I haven't been able to locate any of the official flight deck documentation yet.

_________________
Tracy White -Researcher@Large

"Let the evidence guide the research. Do not have a preconceived agenda which will only distort the result."
-Barbara Tuchman

I have this image, that looks like its from '45 when she took the hit to the forward elevator...cant decide if that white or yellow dashes on the deck...

_________________
"Also we will never see a 1/350 late war Enterprise from Dragon due to a paralyzing fear of success...." - Heavy Melder

Lots of unfinished model ships + attention issues = A busy slipway where nothing gets done!

Grr, the solid line in the above photo looks yellow, especially when compared with the hats of nearby sailors. At 250% zoom, the dash lines to the far right look yellow. This could either be because they were actually painted yellow, or that the white has been very weathered (the rest of the deck looks so).



While going through all my reference photos, I came across this image, taken several months before she changed from MS 21 to MS 33. It clearly looks like white lines



But upon closer look, I noticed a few things

- first, a dash upon the deck infront of the left Avenger, which the railing to the elevator is partially blocking. Zoomed in, it looks possibly yellow.
- second, a dash upon the lowered elevator deck, located next to the folded wing of a Avenger. It very much looks yellow.
- third (and completely irrelevant), theres a jeep parked on the deck. Never seen that before while under way , Ill assume it helps move bombs around the deck.

So perhaps the other dashes look white because of the angle of the sun? Maybe thats why under a different angle the yellow shows up better.

Does anyone else see the yellow I do?

_________________
"Also we will never see a 1/350 late war Enterprise from Dragon due to a paralyzing fear of success...." - Heavy Melder

Lots of unfinished model ships + attention issues = A busy slipway where nothing gets done!

I can speak more definitively to the jeep, so I'll start with that. Fleet carriers were allotted jeeps and carried them while under way. They were used for light towing, amongst other things, but I've got a picture of one towing a Helldiver, so I'm not sure what their practical limit was.

I've only seen deck painting directives from 1941 and 1942.

_________________
Tracy White -Researcher@Large

"Let the evidence guide the research. Do not have a preconceived agenda which will only distort the result."
-Barbara Tuchman

Hello Everyone! New poster and member here, with a question I did not see answered anywhere else on the forum or thread.

Like others on this particular thread, I am working on the 1/487 scale Revell Yorktown to CV-6. I want to scratch build correct bow and aft flight deck support beams, since the ones supplied in the kit are beyond terrible. However, I am having some trouble locating a good, clear image of the supports, and I figured someone here might have a good picture that would show them? Thanks!

I used the general plans to get an idea of the shape (from the top) of the beams, and then used photo references to shape the rest. Since all of the yorktown class carriers were exact in regards to the support beams, you could use any reference from them. The rears are a bit harder to shape, you have to really take a good look at the plans, and not go by pictures alone.

Plans of CV-5 can be found here http://www.hnsa.org/doc/plans/index.htm

Front beams on the Yorktown
http://www.navsource.org/archives/02/020556.jpg

http://www.navsource.org/archives/02/020545.jpg

Rear CV-8
http://www.navsource.org/archives/02/020841.jpg


Check out this page in the CV-5 thread, where I posted the same thing as you a couple years ago

viewtopic.php?f=46&t=12986&start=80

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"Also we will never see a 1/350 late war Enterprise from Dragon due to a paralyzing fear of success...." - Heavy Melder

Lots of unfinished model ships + attention issues = A busy slipway where nothing gets done!

Try this link. http://www.maritimequest.com/warship_di ... page_1.htm

These are pictures of HORNET, some of which show better detail on the flight deck support beams fore and aft. Pick your way through the pages and you'll get some good ideas as to how the deck was supported. OBTW, the stern shot of HORNET in drydock in jtninja's post shows quite a bit of wooden scaffolding used during construction but removed before she put to sea.
Of note, the beams supporting the forward end of the flight deck are just a series of beams perpendicular to each other in a grid. Under the aft portion of the flight deck, there is a structure which contains several manned spaces. The picture of HORNET in drydock taken from aft of her (page 5 or 6 on the linked document) shows this boxed structure well.
Here are some shots of the structures I built in 1/350 for my HORNET. Hopefully they will help you visualize what the beams look like.



The unit on the left is the aft section with the boxed structure (it is upside down), on the right is the grid for the forward flight deck support (it is rightside up).

_________________
Some people make you happy, then they leave.
Others make you happy when they leave. (apologies to Oscar Wilde if he ever said anything similar, of which there is some doubt . . .)

Thanks everyone for their replies, I'm not quite sure how I missed all that on the other pages. John, those beam structures for the underside of the flight deck you scratched are incredible. Are those styrene? How did you put the ribs on them, if I might ask?