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PostPosted: Thu Apr 04, 2013 10:26 pm 
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MadCap -
Thanks for the kind words. Yes, the structures are completely built of various sizes of Evergreen strip styrene, mostly .010 or .015 thick for realism's sake. The pictures actually show the second set - the first were built for the Trumpeter version / Blue Water Navy kit version before I realized the height of those kits in the area of the deck houses around the fore and aft elevators was way too high. The second set were built after I decided to use actual plans instead of conforming to the existing (incorrect) model. They turned out much better and I benefited from the experience of doing it the first time even though I could not use any of them for the second set. (I did think about trying to salvage the first set . . . . )
First, I have to say that I swore I would never scratchbuild anything, except maybe an odd part here or there. I just found - as you did - certain highly visible parts of the kit don't bear much of a resemblance to the real ship. So I set out to duplicate them as best I could using the plans and photographs. It may not be obvious, but I did not put detail in any areas where they were not going to be visible - for instance the back side of the third and fourth crossbeams heading aft on the bow section. If I can do it, many others can as well with some patience (that I never thought I had). If you mess up, toss it and start over. You'll be surprised how much quicker and better the second one will be once you have the technique down.
Not to put you off, but I counted approximately 12 feet of .010 X .020 styrene strip used in making the vertical stiffeners for the beams. That was by far the most numerous component. What you see in the picture, which is not all the supporting structure fore and aft, but most of it, probably took 10 -12 hours over a few days to do once I stopped whining and set my mind to it. I used sharp tweezers and short pieces of the aforementioned strip to which I touched some cement to one edge before sticking it in place against a beam. I used Tamiya extra fine cement on the brush in the cap, making sure I pulled the brush across the jar mouth to get most of the liquid cement off before touching it to the strip. With practice, I could get a piece of strip down every 20 - 30 seconds, so it just becomes a matter of perseverance. I made the short pieces too long intentionally, then trimmed them to the correct height after the cement had set. That made the construction a lot easier than trying to measure and cut tons of the little buggers to a uniform length. When I got tired or cross-eyed, I put it down, knowing from past experience that bad things would happen if I didn't. An Optivisor is mandatory for me in doing this. But if it looks good under an Optivisor, it will look great with normal vision.
Good Luck if you decide to push forward. On balance I'm quite happy I'm on this side of that part of the project, but I'm also certain it was worth the effort after seeing the results painted and in place on the model. There are other parts of the model I'm working on now that require the same kind of efforts in and around the catwalks. That area may not be a visible on the smaller Revell model - I'm not sure. Of course, the thing is that if you put that level of detail into the flight deck supports, then other areas will cry out for . . . . Well, you know.

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 05, 2013 1:18 pm 
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John, the way you described your scratch build makes it even more impressive when you understand the amount of work that goes into it. Outstanding work!

I may indeed try and replicate that for my 1/487 Enterprise, first I have to build the flight deck supports. My original plan was to build a Midway version of Enterprise, but after reading up on all the threads and looking at the pictures, I see now how much work it will be to convert the carrier to some decent representation. I will be picking up some stryrene this weekend for some prefabrication, so I'll take it one step at a time and see how it goes...


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 06, 2013 10:09 am 
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Mad -
Yes, it is work - often tedious. But I wouldn't say it takes exceptional skill - lots of persistence, sure. The Evergreen plastic is cheap, so that's not a big obstacle. You'll end up with something you wouldn't have any other way short of buying someone esle's work.

I'd suggest trying to get your hands on a copy of 'YORKTOWN Class Aircraft Carriers', Shipcraft 3, by Roger Chesneau. The book is part historical summary of the class, and partly a survey of models - both the available kits and finished models. The cover photo and pages 26 - 29 show an exceptional model of YORKTOWN based on the Revell kit (1/478 or whatever it is). The results speak for themselves and might help your thinking for your model. There are many line drawings of the three ships in various time frames as well. One word of caution: for some reason the two plan views of ENTERPRISE flight deck show her forward elevator as smaller than the same elevator on the other two ships of the class. This is not correct - the forward elevators for all three ships were the same size. Still, there is lots of good info for the modeller.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 08, 2013 3:58 pm 
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John W. wrote:
Mad -
Yes, it is work - often tedious. But I wouldn't say it takes exceptional skill - lots of persistence, sure. The Evergreen plastic is cheap, so that's not a big obstacle. You'll end up with something you wouldn't have any other way short of buying someone esle's work.

I'd suggest trying to get your hands on a copy of 'YORKTOWN Class Aircraft Carriers', Shipcraft 3, by Roger Chesneau. The book is part historical summary of the class, and partly a survey of models - both the available kits and finished models. The cover photo and pages 26 - 29 show an exceptional model of YORKTOWN based on the Revell kit (1/478 or whatever it is). The results speak for themselves and might help your thinking for your model. There are many line drawings of the three ships in various time frames as well. One word of caution: for some reason the two plan views of ENTERPRISE flight deck show her forward elevator as smaller than the same elevator on the other two ships of the class. This is not correct - the forward elevators for all three ships were the same size. Still, there is lots of good info for the modeller.


Just bought my first set of Evergreen last night and began fabrication of a new foredeck! I've taken that first step into a larger world, as the saying goes.

Good call on the Shipcraft 3 book, I've ordered that actually, but has not arrived yet. Thanks for all your words of encouragement, I do appreciate it...


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 09, 2013 9:30 am 
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TheMadCap wrote:

Just bought my first set of Evergreen last night and began fabrication of a new foredeck! I've taken that first step into a larger world, as the saying goes.

Good call on the Shipcraft 3 book, I've ordered that actually, but has not arrived yet. Thanks for all your words of encouragement, I do appreciate it...


Good for you. Evergreen is cheap enough, so don't get discouraged - do overs will happen a lot at the start.
Be sure to post pictures to show others what can be done with some patience.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 30, 2013 3:13 pm 
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John W. wrote:
TheMadCap wrote:

Just bought my first set of Evergreen last night and began fabrication of a new foredeck! I've taken that first step into a larger world, as the saying goes.

Good call on the Shipcraft 3 book, I've ordered that actually, but has not arrived yet. Thanks for all your words of encouragement, I do appreciate it...


Good for you. Evergreen is cheap enough, so don't get discouraged - do overs will happen a lot at the start.
Be sure to post pictures to show others what can be done with some patience.


I have been working on and off for a few weeks on scratch building the foredeck, since the one in the kit is beyond awful. So far, with everyone's help, i've got the deck with the howse cut out, the flight deck supports (needs details) and the catapult housing deck built. I also bought a cheap metal necklace to use as the anchor chains, but haven't had time to start on that. As soon as I have something respectable, I'll be sure to post pics for suggestions on improvements. I am really taking my time on this project, it seems I am extremely picky on this stuff!


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 17, 2013 12:33 pm 
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Guys, might be a really dumb questions, but were the lower hulls of Enterprise, Hornet, and Yorktown painted with red colored antifoulant paint, or was it something else? For those of us building full hull models, what color do you suggest for below the waterline?


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 17, 2013 1:06 pm 
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Norfolk Anti-fouling 65-A. Discussion here.

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 20, 2013 1:28 pm 
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Tracy White wrote:
Norfolk Anti-fouling 65-A. Discussion here.


Thanks Tracy. I follwed the trail in that thread and found the master paint cross reference, was able to get every color I needed for my Solomon Islands Enterprise!

BTW, I got my F4Fs and TBDs from Matt Stein Models yesterday in 1/500 scale. I never was able to pick up any from WEM, but with a bit of clean up, these MSM versions (Especially the TBD) are fantastic!

Progress on the CV6 is coming along slowly, due to the awful fitting issues between parts in my kit. I am having to fill and sand TONS of seams between the hanger deck and the hull superstructure. It's a mess.

However, the 20mm gun tubs on the flightdeck cats are coming along nicely. I found that by cutting away some of the existing catwalk, I can glue some styrene tube onto the spaces where I cut away, then back fill with some putty, and get a pretty good version. The Revell kit I am using is unfortunately and older model (not the Battle of Midway Carrier), so those gun tubs are not in the kit, so they must be scratched out. Anyway, once I get a chance, I will defintely post some photos, although I know there is no way that my version is worthy of some of the ones I've seen here in the forums. Some of you guys are just crazy good with this stuff!

Cheers!


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 03, 2013 12:14 pm 
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I spent one year building the Big E using Trumpeter's 1/350 scale Hornet. I modified it using cardboard, and purchased all the guns and extra planes from various sources appropriate to the Big E near the end of WWII. I spent $250.00 on 1/4" plexiglass and built a protective case to hang my model on the wall. I painted a background scene of ocean and sky. I was very happy with this model, it looked fairly realistic. Then.....

We had a party and I moved the model outside my house and it accidentally got some hot sunshine on it. The plexiglass case created a greenhouse effect and melted my precious model!

Now I want to build her again, but my plex case will have ventilation holes and I will not put her outside or in a hot attic. I want to avoid the extra work converting Trumpeter's hornet and am willing to spend the big bucks on a Yankee Modelworks Enterprise 1944 version, or is that the Bluewater Navy model? Anyhow, they don't make them anymore. Nature Coast no longer has it for about $680.00. Does anyone know where I can find a Yankee Modelworks or Bluewater Navy 1/350 (#35054) Big E model kit?


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 03, 2013 12:52 pm 
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Bluewater Navy's molds were purchased by Yankee Modelworks, which in turn was sold to Freetime Hobbies (or perhaps some other legal entity -Free Time is the retail shop of the group and they have been re-releasing some of the kits under other company names such as BlueRidge Models.

I would start by contacting Brandon at Freetime.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 04, 2013 11:06 am 
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BigEFan wrote:
I spent one year building the Big E using Trumpeter's 1/350 scale Hornet. I modified it using cardboard, and purchased all the guns and extra planes from various sources appropriate to the Big E near the end of WWII. I spent $250.00 on 1/4" plexiglass and built a protective case to hang my model on the wall. I painted a background scene of ocean and sky. I was very happy with this model, it looked fairly realistic. Then.....

We had a party and I moved the model outside my house and it accidentally got some hot sunshine on it. The plexiglass case created a greenhouse effect and melted my precious model!

Now I want to build her again, but my plex case will have ventilation holes and I will not put her outside or in a hot attic. I want to avoid the extra work converting Trumpeter's hornet and am willing to spend the big bucks on a Yankee Modelworks Enterprise 1944 version, or is that the Bluewater Navy model? Anyhow, they don't make them anymore. Nature Coast no longer has it for about $680.00. Does anyone know where I can find a Yankee Modelworks or Bluewater Navy 1/350 (#35054) Big E model kit?



The BWN Enterprise kit is fairly close to the real blistered Big E hull, and is the only one of the three that they did that comes reasonably close to the ship it is intended to represent. The bow and the areas where the blisters meet the hull need the most work to fix. Years ago, being furious at the $600 rip-off I suffered with the BWN CV-8 kit, I had some personal exchanges of information with BWN's proprietor, including sending substantial research material proving the many errors in his Hornet kit. He claimed he made his model from plans, but that is fiction. The island is the 1944 CV-6 one, as is the flight deck. The BWN CV-8/CV-5 hull was the abomination that led to the Trumpeter catastrophe. The hull, I can only conclude was made using only a profile and plan view, with no cross sectional information, no molded offsets, nothing. I think he just guesstimated. Proceed with caution.

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 27, 2013 7:01 pm 
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Michael Vorrasi wrote:
I had some personal exchanges of information with BWN's proprietor..." "The hull, I can only conclude was made using only a profile and plan view, with no cross sectional information, no molded offsets, nothing. I think he just guesstimated. Proceed with caution.


So you spoke to him about the erroneous hull, too? That was fun, wasn't it? I asked him if he ever intended to release a corrected hull, and got an earful about how the hull was perfectly correct. Good times...

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 22, 2013 7:31 pm 
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For those who have not heard, Tom's Modelworks is now making 1/700 scale resin kits of Enterprise (CV-6) and Yorktown (CV-5). Both kits have brass and complete decals for ship and air group. Among many other resources, this particular forum was used to help make them the most accurate kits of these two famous ships available. The first batch of kits was small and has been sold already but more are on the way. A late war Enterprise is also to made as is a Hornet hull only for replacing the Trumpeter kit's hull.

http://www.tomsmodelworks.com/catalog/p ... 50d90402b8

http://www.tomsmodelworks.com/catalog/p ... cts_id=521

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 22, 2013 7:49 pm 
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rdh wrote:
For those who have not heard, Tom's Modelworks is now making 1/700 scale resin kits of Enterprise (CV-6) and Yorktown (CV-5). Both kits have brass and complete decals for ship and air group. Among many other resources, this particular forum was used to help make them the most accurate kits of these two famous ships available. The first batch of kits was small and has been sold already but more are on the way. A late war Enterprise is also to made as is a Hornet hull only for replacing the Trumpeter kit's hull.

http://www.tomsmodelworks.com/catalog/p ... 50d90402b8

http://www.tomsmodelworks.com/catalog/p ... cts_id=521


Will a full Hornet kit be available for those who do not have/want the Trumpeter one?

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 23, 2013 1:49 am 
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Producing a full Hornet kit probably doesn't make much financial sense. Most people won't buy a $140 resin kit instead of a $25-$30 plastic kit even if it is more accurate. By producing the hull only I can keep the cost down, hopefully to where people will be OK with adding that cost to that of the Hornet kit.

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 23, 2013 7:07 am 
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rdh wrote:
Producing a full Hornet kit probably doesn't make much financial sense. Most people won't buy a $140 resin kit instead of a $25-$30 plastic kit even if it is more accurate. By producing the hull only I can keep the cost down, hopefully to where people will be OK with adding that cost to that of the Hornet kit.


My main concern is that, hull aside, the rest of the trumpeter kit is not good enough to display with the full resin kits of CV-5 & 6. It is crude and no where near accurate, so most of the rest of the kit needs major re-working anyway. Why not offer the "full boat" option? (pun intended). :heh:

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 23, 2013 9:24 am 
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RDH
Are you saying you are producting a 350 scale hull for the Hornet, or a 700 scale?

Thanks,

Joe


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 24, 2013 7:59 pm 
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I will produce a 1/700 scale waterline hull-only for the Hornet. I have 1/700 scale full kits of the Enterprise 1942 and Yorktown 1942 (Midway fit) I have no masters made for anything 1/350 at this time.

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 25, 2013 2:22 am 
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I've just spent an interesting couple of hours reading through this thread. There must be something about salt water that brings out the hero in modelers. So hats off to those advancing the craft and employing the most famous warship in history as a subject.

I live on the wrong side of the tracks though and have humble needs. That said, I've had a serious urge to build a CV6. If nothing else it might prompt a company was going to put out a new styrene CV6 in 1/350 as soon as I've started. (I'm tempted to build the 1/700 Warspite or QE hoping that it would prod Trumpie into making WWI versions of either in 1/350.)

There was a thread a while back on Finescale and one of the good gents there argued that if you had both the Tamiya 1/700 Enterprise and Hornet that when combined with some PE you could build a pretty decent summer/fall 42 CV6. I've had the Enterprise for some time and opened it to see if it had some planes I could stick on a Tamiya Bogue. It didn't, but I was actually pretty impressed with the kit and that has caused an itch that should be scratched. Tamiya's Hornet is pretty close to free on Scale Hobbyist so I'm thinking seriously of a making a respectable Enterprise. I've heard the island knocked badly, but in my house some of the fine points of an extremely complicated ship become pretty abstract in 1/700 scale. It is waterline which is good and we'll put it profile. (If nothing else, I'd guess the Tamiya Hornet would have F4Fs that could join a couple of TBMs on Bogue.)

So could a Tamiya E, Hornet and some PE make a ship that will look like CV6 from ten feet away?

Eric

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