The Ship Model Forum

...thanks...

I was hoping for a late war Enterprise ...Just looked at the pics of Yorktown in the other thread. Not bad at all...and nothing that sand paper can't fix. I will be at the Nürnberg fair the coming weekend and will keep an eye open for the Meritt ships! Last year they had the 1/200 Hornet on display...what a beast!

cheers
Uwe

Alright, here's a question not just for CV6 fans, but for all Yorktown class modeller experts in general...so I'm cross-posting this same question to all three threads that deal with each ship in the class. (makes one wonder why there isn't just one Yorktown class fans thread)

If Tamiya's Enterprise, Hornet and Yorktown kits are all wrong since the hull is aid to be smaller at 1/719 scale, then what about the superstructure?

Is the superstructure the right scale? Or was it just made sized proportional to the hull?

It couldn't be that Tamiya absolutely got everything wrong even down to the planes and superstructure.

I don't see why we can't just attach the Tamiya kits' superstructures to Tom's modelworks Hornet hull which is the correct 1/700 scale.

It could be like the way others attach the Trumpeter Hornet superstructure and flight deck to the Tom's modelworks hull.

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"Haijun" means "navy" in Mandarin Chinese.

"You have enemies? Good. It means you stood up for something in your life."- Winston Churchill

The entire Tamiya kit is underscale. They re-sized all the drawings they used based on the mistaken OA length being 809 feet when it is really 825 feet. All other dimensions are off by the same percentage of error. I never measured the planes but it is easy enough to do. The island is even thinner than it should be for 1/719 scale. Nothing from the Tamiya kit will work with Tom's replacement hull. It is made for the Trumpy kit only.

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Mike

I was watching and rewatching and re-rewatching etc. on Amazon digital (yes the HD is worth double the price), and while I know that real raid footage was used in the film, it seems that a genuine Yorktown class that could only have been the Enterprise in second half 43- first half 44 was actually used in some scenes. Im thinking loading the planes on to the deck (that wasnt archival Hornet footage) and the Mitchell passing over the deck after take off and maybe a few others. Has this been discussed before and have the Enterprise specialists tried to date these clips to the features known on the ship during this time period?

I am still hoping for the Merit 1/200 Big E myself. How hard could it be to do one now that they have done the Hornet? I have also heard of Pontos doing detail sets to make the Hornet into the Yorktown or the Enterprise.

Negative Ghost Rider. Nice day dream, but Enterprise was not used in filming Thirty Seconds over Tokyo. Those scenes are actually large scale (and very well done) models mixed in with key actual footage. Key spotting points are items that were on Hornet as built and removed in her post shake down refit. The model depicts them, because they used original plans for the model. It was very well done for its day, and very convincing even to trained eyes. Remember, the film did win the Special Effects Oscar in 1944.

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Mike

Thank you. Thought i would get the straight dope here. Yes, those are really incredible models. I can see it now, here are some pics for those who dont have the movie. I still wonder how they did the deck scene. Wow again. -Mark (Was the Hornet camo scheme classified? A noticeable omissiom)

I notice the movie makers found some extra 5"/38s - I count six visible on the forward half of port side catwalk / gallery decks. HORNET probably could have used them in real life. The weathering is a bit overdone - as is sometimes the case with ship modelers using armor modeling techniques - a sure sign of models in the movie. The flight deck scene is obviously shot on a sound stage - the lighting is the give away there - you can see the reflections of the overhead lights.

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Some people make you happy, then they leave.
Others make you happy when they leave. (apologies to Oscar Wilde if he ever said anything similar, of which there is some doubt . . .)

The deck scenes were shot in Hollywood's biggest sound stage. They brought in three actual B-25's into the building (it was that big) and built a mock-up of the island and the flight deck, and the real engines were running during the close up filming of the launch. (If you look closely at that photo, you will see the three B-25's closest to the camera are real, the ones beyond are part of the painted backdrop on the sound stage!) Look for the navigator's astrodome bubble and side window blisters on the movie's B-25C/D's. Real B-25B's did not have bubbles. The navigator's windows and astrodome were all flat plate plexiglas. Must have been too loud to think straight in there! Another spotting point to look for: Hornet's camouflage is missing on the model scenes as you noted, and look at the director tub on the tall tower just in front of the crane in the B-25 hoisting scene. That is the director tub for #3 1.1" quad mount. It was removed from the ship in January 1942 and replaced by a tub built into the upper island platform directly, rather than on that tall pogo stick of a mounting. The plans they built the model from were not updated to include many of the latest mods. They did get the new pri-fly shape right though, and the 20mm tubs in the catwalks as well (but left in some 50 calibers on the starboard catwalk by the crane), and where did those extra 5 inchers along side the port flight deck amidships come from!

Okay, so I've had plans for a 1/350th CV for a while. While Trumpeter's CV's were the only WWII US carriers really on the market, I had picked up a Franklin, but was never motivated enough to build it. With the Merit plans for a 1/350 CV-6, that's the clear winner for me (I don't have huge amounts of space, so just one). I'm drawn to the dazzle camouflage schemes, so I'd like to think about post-1943 refit and I understand the kit is a 1942 fit. Wondering if all the experts could critique my list. Unfortunately I feel this may exceed what I feel ready for in terms of scratchbuilding

1. Torpedo blisters: might not be too hard to scratchbuild with some plastic sheeting. And I'll probably do her waterline on a sea base, so wouldn't see too much of these.

2. AA refit: moderate here depending on how many new platforms I need for AA. If it's a need of sticking new guns on existing areas, that'll be easy. But I need to find some references to see what was different for the platforms they were mounted on.

3. Longer and wider flight deck: I feel like this is where my limit may be. It probably requires a full rebuild of the flight deck

4. New radars/etc.: probably wouldn't be too hard to find some from other kits/aftermarket and add them

Anyone have comments on the above or things I'm missing? Thanks for any input.

In regards to her AA load out when she is in her splinter pattern, she received a significant overhaul. Several gun galleries were added, moved, expanded, and in some cases removed depending on when you are looking at her. The addition of dual and quad 40mm mounts as well as several 20mm and the removal of all 1.1" mounts. I think her 5" stayed the same though. I can dig through some of the resources I have here and get back to the post unless someone beats me to it. Timing wise if you are wanting to do her in her splinter pattern she already had a fair amount of changes to her AA by the time she was painted in splinter, but I think she received an additional upgrade (which was her final one) before the changed her paint scheme again just before the war ended.

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Gabriel

I swore I'd never scratchbuild anything. Well, maybe a few small parts, but nothing big. Well, that went by the board years ago when I realized I couldn't get to where I wanted without giving it a try. I think a lot of what you'll want for your CV-6 1944 is available in one form or another. There are several sources of the AA guns (and tubs) you'll want, for example. It would be a colossal PITA if you actually had to scratchbuild those. Just be prepared to toss out some initial efforts until you get results with which you are happy. Speaking from personal experience, it would be a lot harder to scratchbuild the whole model from the ground up (see my postings on the CASF CV-8 HORNET thread) than what you are mulling at the moment. At least you have a decent kit as a basis for your efforts. (Ah, the allure of splinter camouflage - it makes some folks think crazy thoughts and ponder nutso options just to possess it!) There are lots of other aftermarket pieces that can help you get where you want to get. I'd suggest just trying some of the critical pieces first - without gluing them on - to convince yourself the project is doable. If you get cold feet, you can do a Santa Cruz CV-6 and still be ahead. Do the FRANKLIN kit in splinter if you can't get the idea out of your decision-maker.
One thing I think you're incorrect on is the flight deck - I don't think the shape (or length or width) changed in any significant way during the war. Mike or Dick will correct me if I'm wrong. I'm more knowledgeable about HORNET to be honest. Hopefully when you get to the flight deck, someone like Pontos may have a correct wood deck on the market (rumor has it). Artwox does have a deck out now, but it is a wood duplicate of the plastic Merit YORKTOWN deck, which is to say it has overscale details (tiedown strips for example) and missing some details (the torpedo and bomb elevators for example) just like the plastic one.
Obviously I recommend you give it a go. You won't know until you try it. You will undoubtedly have some fun doing the research to get the details right. There is much discussion earlier in this thread on the AA fit and locations that will help on that score.
Good luck!

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Some people make you happy, then they leave.
Others make you happy when they leave. (apologies to Oscar Wilde if he ever said anything similar, of which there is some doubt . . .)

The basic dimensions of the flightdeck didn't change. What did change were the outlying gun tubs. The Enterprise (and Yorktown) flightdeck was lengthened from the originally announced dimension during construction, so all three sisters were the same length as completed. The 2' or so increase later was due to the fact that the tubs in the after round down on Enterprise and Hornet extended slightly beyond the original aft limit.

As Dick J. pointed out, there was no change to the flight deck. It is an old wives tale. Also the AA differences and the modifications to the island are extensive. Not just sticking more guns on it. You need to build the numerous new tubs and sponsons and supporting understructure as well. Given the vast differences in the model, and enormous amount of scratch building a conversion would take, might I suggest that you hunt down the 1/350 resin 1944 CV-6 kit by Blue Water Navy (now, Yankee Model Works). it is much more accurate than their miserable attempts at CV-5 and CV-8, and the hull is fairly close to the blistered dimensions of the post-10/43 CV-6. You will just need to sharpen up the bow a bit, but otherwise this is the only decent kit BWN ever did of the Yorktowns.

http://www.modelshipgallery.com/gallery ... index.html
http://www.modelshipgallery.com/gallery ... index.html
https://www.scalehobbyist.com/manufactu ... roduct.php

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Mike

Thank you for the replies. Any recommendations on a good source of plans? I don't mind scratchbuilding the simpler things like more gun platforms...it's things like full flight decks and hulls that worry me. My worry is that I don't have good enough references right now to do the job right. Of course I may also do the 1942 version.

The Floating Drydock has the 1944 version of CV-6 in plans. It is in the TFW series.
http://www.floatingdrydock.com/TFW2.htm

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Mike

Correct me if I am wrong, but this kit is going to be released in the Battle of Santa Cruz time frame ?

That would mean it will have a few alternate parts than the Yorktown kit ?

Steve Wiper
http://www.classicwarships.com

Yes. Most 1.1"s swapped out for quad 40mms with different gun tubs. Some knowledgeable people were put in touch for the project.

Hull plating will remain however; if it was economical to change it the work would have actually been done before the CV-5 kit was released.

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Tracy White -Researcher@Large

"Let the evidence guide the research. Do not have a preconceived agenda which will only distort the result."
-Barbara Tuchman

It's short for Primary Flight Control.

Enterprise had a secondary PriFly on the aft of the island at Midway, whereas Yorktown didn't.

Yorktown island:


Enterprise island:


It's just aft of the searchlight platform.

The PE set that comes with the Merit Yorktown contains that secondary PriFly, even though it's not necessary to build the Yorktown.

Bob

PriFly is the Primary Flight Control Center on USN carriers and is essentially the control tower. It's one easy way to visually Identify Enterprise versus Yorktown. They both had one on the port side of the island forward on the catwalks, but Enterprise had an extra one aft. Yorktown's can be seen just behind the shoulders of the sailor on this Navsource photo and Enterprise's here. Enterprise's extra PriFly is in the lower right hand corner of that last picture and the corresponding empty area on Yorktown is visible here.

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Tracy White -Researcher@Large

"Let the evidence guide the research. Do not have a preconceived agenda which will only distort the result."
-Barbara Tuchman