The Ship Model Forum

For what it is worth, that's Hornet CV-8

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Tracy White -Researcher@Large

"Let the evidence guide the research. Do not have a preconceived agenda which will only distort the result."
-Barbara Tuchman

Agree with Tracy, that's Hornet. Not sure of the differences between the two in the regards to those discharges.

Those are bilge pump discharges. The booklet of general plans for Yorktown seems to show 8 of them per side, at this link, page 17:

https://maritime.org/doc/plans/index.htm

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We like our history sanitized and theme-parked and self-congratulatory, not bloody and angry and unflattering. - Jonathan Yardley

Thanks for your keen eyes l was confused by the pic's caption

Thank you very much...
are you talking about these??

Well, I was. Now that I look at them closer, though, I don't think that's what they are. I believe those are the inset mooring bitts/bollards in the side of the hull. I don't see the bilge pump discharge ports on that drawing, unfortunately.

Sorry about that.

_________________
We like our history sanitized and theme-parked and self-congratulatory, not bloody and angry and unflattering. - Jonathan Yardley

You don’t have to be sorry you helped alot
Thanks anyway....l’ll dig deeper
check this picture.... 2 bilge pumps?

I’ll use this pic of Enterprise to do the pumps...could this be ok?

I believe the Yorktown class all had the same engineering spaces, so the bilge discharges should be the same on all of them. I have the huge Maryland Silver plan book at home, and I can take a look to see if it list anything -- I'm sure it does, but finding it will be a different issue -- but it'll be a couple of days before I can dig them out. I'm doing a 1/700 CV-6 at the moment -- as practice for my CV-5 -- but I didn't look into location of the bilge discharges due to the small scale.

_________________
We like our history sanitized and theme-parked and self-congratulatory, not bloody and angry and unflattering. - Jonathan Yardley

Thanks a lot l found a pic for the recessed bitts on modern ship l’m sure it was the same on Ww2 carrier (l hope)

Yes, that's them, and they did look very similar. The US Navy hasn't done much to update bits, chocks, and the like over the years.

_________________
We like our history sanitized and theme-parked and self-congratulatory, not bloody and angry and unflattering. - Jonathan Yardley

YES

Dear Devin
thanks to you l found the position of the recessed bitts...(red)
I guessed the position of the  bilge pump discharge (blue) could it be ok?
What do u think?
Have a good one

Those look good to me, based on the photos you posted above. Barring any definitive drawing showing the discharge locations, I'd be happy with those locations.

_________________
We like our history sanitized and theme-parked and self-congratulatory, not bloody and angry and unflattering. - Jonathan Yardley

I had a gut feeling starting about a decade ago that the common knowledge that carrier bulkheads and overheads in the hangar spaces were white was not correct, but it wasn't until tonight that I had anything I felt was proof. Frustratingly, it's a document scan that I've had for about five years now and had missed. Dana Bell originally found a September 1939 Bureau of Construction & Repair (precursor to Bureau of Ships) memo to two supervisors of shipbuilding and the Commandant of the Puget Sound Navy Yard (which handled Pacific Ocean carrier work) that stated the following:

"Hangar spaces on Aircraft Carrier shall, at the discretion of the Supervising Constructor, be given a priming coat of red lead, formula No. 1 or 9; or of aluminum paint, formula No. 11, except as modified by page 5, lines 6 to 14, in which case any necessary touching up may be done with either red lead or aluminum paint."

There are photos of CV-7 as well as Yorktown and many aviation spaces on other ships (AVs and cruisers) that I have seen where the structures did not appear white - they were highly similar to black and white photos of silver paint. I think we now know why.

Likely this was true for Yorktown until the time of her loss.

_________________
Tracy White -Researcher@Large

"Let the evidence guide the research. Do not have a preconceived agenda which will only distort the result."
-Barbara Tuchman

Yes I agree Tracy. There are a number of photos of carrier hanger decks that clearly show the bulkheads and overheads were in a silver/aluminium finis

It was pretty obvious to me but since silver/aluminum is much different from white I wanted proof in documentation before stating it as fact. We still don't know when a change was ordered but given that Yorktown was too busy to even repaint her exterior I doubt they had ships' force strip and repaint the interior, something that only a yard would do doing overhaul.

_________________
Tracy White -Researcher@Large

"Let the evidence guide the research. Do not have a preconceived agenda which will only distort the result."
-Barbara Tuchman

That is super intersting
So if l got it right

1. The hangar was in aluminium was it all even the floor?

2. As l read it right the exterior was not repainted...so this color scheme is the right one?

Thanks in advance

Nice. Great that you have proof of that. We've been guessing that was correct for years now, but it's great to have it in writing.

The 1/700 Enterprise I'm building already has off-white hangar interior walls, but I can justify it to myself in saying they repainted her during the pre-Doolittle raid yard period. When I build Yorky, though, she'll be silver.

_________________
We like our history sanitized and theme-parked and self-congratulatory, not bloody and angry and unflattering. - Jonathan Yardley

Does anyone have the Robert Cressman book "That Gallant Ship: USS Yorktown CV-5"?

If memory serves (and it may not!), there is a passage in that book (pretty sure it is that book) that describes the crew being ordered to strip all of the paint from interior bulkheads and overheads during the transit back to Pearl Harbor after Lexington's loss at Coral Sea. I don't recall if the stripping included the hangar deck bulkheads and overhead but don't think so. I do remember reading that some anecdotal reports from Lexington survivors indicated that fires on Lex were being fed by the paint on bulkheads and overheads and very difficult to extinguish. So Yorktown's crew was highly motivated to get the job done rather than burn in fires fed by (dry) paint and worked very quickly. The manner of Lexington's loss was described in the book as scaring the hell out of Yorktown's crew. The passage described that the amount of paint being removed and shoveled overboard was considerable.

The book describes Yorktown's crew as a happy crew with great pride in their ship. Crewmembers are quoted as saying her captain violently and impressively maneuvered her "like a destroyer" when evading torpedoes and bombs at Coral Sea, so much so that the crew had difficulty in keeping their footing during sudden turns.

Can anyone confirm or deny I am thinking of the right book? It was one borrowed from a library many years ago and is no longer available there. It was an excellent, reasonably well-illustrated read and I'd like to own a copy of the book I remember, which I think was the Cressman book, but may be wrong.

The speed at which Yorktown's crew worked to remove the paint reminds me of an old Army story. People sometimes asked how long it takes to dig a foxhole through tough tree roots with a small entrenching tool. Generally, a very long time but the digging happens a lot quicker when people are shooting at you.

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-Steve L.

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Steve,

I've read that book many times over the years, but I don't recall a passage like that. I'd have to check. I'd be very interested in finding such an account, the only thing that comes to mind along those lines are descriptions of ships removing linoleum, carpeting and furniture after the Battle of Savo Island, as those items fueled the fires on the cruisers lost there.

-Devin

_________________
We like our history sanitized and theme-parked and self-congratulatory, not bloody and angry and unflattering. - Jonathan Yardley