The Ship Model Forum

The catapult equipment was not ready upon commissioning of Yorktown and Enterprise, but according to photos, the area below the flightdeck was enclosed by late 1938. Obviously, it was proven and ready to install when Hornet commissioned and so the area was already enclosed.

As for the 1.1" quad mount positioning, Yorktown and Enterprise commissioned with two each immediately forward and aft of the island. When WW-II started, the US Navy determined that the 1.1's were inadequate and needed to be replaced by quad 40MM. But placing a quad 40MM on the raised position aft would have interfered with the operation of the crane, so it was planned to relocate that mount to the catwalk position. When Hornet completed, the need for relocation was known, so her quad 1.1 was already installed in the revised location. Enterprise only needed the relocation done when the quad 40MM were actually installed in late 1942. In her 1943 major rebuild, a twin 40MM could be mounted in the original #3 1.1 mount location because of the similarity in size between the quad 1.1 and the twin 40MM.

Hey David, Dick,

So what we are saying here is to build a fairly good representation of a May 1942 to November 1942 CV-6, in the below image I need to move the #4 1.1 inch quad AA gun mount form the location marked in red to the location marked in green?



Thanks much, and have a great week,

Mark B.

So can we assume that Infini (Makers of some serious PE upgrades for the Merit 1/350 CV-5 Yorktown and CV-6 Enterprise) got it more or less right?

Yes, the 1.1 needs to be moved to a circular tub at the location marked in green. Also, the number of 20MM guns needs to be reduced. At Midway, she had 24. There were 5 each in the catwalks port and starboard just aft of the forward 5" guns and 5 more port side catwalk aft, opposite the quad 40mm tub you marked in red. The 5 starboard aft were the two above the boat crane and three aft of the tub marked in red. The last 4 20MM were the two in the bow bandstand, and two on the fantail. The two on the fantail were slated to be cut into the after flightdeck round down, but that couldn't be done until after Midway. So for Midway, the after round down ran the full width of the flightdeck. The two on the fantail did not have tubs, since the location was temporary.

After Midway, when 20MM production caught up with each ship's initial authorization, the numbers were increased. But until each ship received the early war "standard" allocation, very few "extras" were allowed.

Thanks guys.

I now see this is an “ignorance is bliss” situation.
So just speaking to AA gun fits, to do the following: (More or less)

For CV-6 at Midway June 1942:

1. Move the deck edge 1.1 in. quad AA mount back up to the top of whatever platform that is just behind the island.
   
2. Remove the stern most 20mm positions on the after cat walks.
   
3. Remove the 4 20mm positions form the after flight deck round down and fill in the round down.
   
4. Add the elevated band stand gun platform on the fo'c'sle deck with 2 20mm auto cannon mounts at the bow.

For CV-6 between July 1942 and September 1942:

1. Move the deck edge 1.1 in, quad AA mount back up to the top of whatever platform that is just behind the island.
   
2. Add 20 mm gun mounts to after cat walks and the aft flight deck round down cut outs.
   
3. Add 1 1.1 in. quad AA mount in elevated gun tub on the fo'c'sle deck at the bow.

.

For CV-6 from October 1942 until overhaul/refit at Puget Sound in 1943

1. Leave the deck edge 1.1 in. quad AA mount replacing the 1.1 in. quad AA mount with a quad 40 mm Bofors mount.
   
2. Replace the remaining quad 1.1 in. AA mounts on the flight deck fore and aft of the island with quad 40 mm Bofors mounts.
   
3. Leave the 1.1 in. quad AA mount in the raised tub on the fo'c'sle deck at the bow.

Hmmmmm. So I’m left with fill in round downs and move the deck edge AA mount or secure TBFs and quad 40 mm Bofors....

Thanks for the assists
Mark B.

Hey folks! I have conflicting information on what changes need to be made to the Merit 1/350 kit for an early 1945 fit?
-Torpedo buldges
-all the AA changes, which I think is the main set of external changes
-I read somewhere the deck was widened?
What else am I missing?


Likewise what was her paint measure then? Was it still the dazzle?

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Gabriel

CV-6 was repainted into Measure 21 at Pearl Harbor in December 1944 during the ship's conversion to a night carrier (CV(N)-6). During my research on the ship's late-war config, the only change I could identify between the Oct 1944 (camouflage) appearance and the Jan 1945 appearance was the addition of Plexiglas windscreens above Pri-Fly. I'm sure there were other changes made, but no photos I could find seemed to show them.

It's interesting to note the flight deck "6" is painted upside down on all wartime 1945 photos of the ship - I'm not sure why this was done. In the photos taken after the summer 1945 refit (repairing kamikaze damage taken off Okinawa in May), the "6" is back to its normal orientation with the top of the 6 towards the bow.

For reference, here are my drawings of CV-6 in Oct 1944 (in camouflage) and as a night carrier in early 1945:

Thanks for those Ian.

Was the flight deck widened after 42? I am also seeing at least 1 radar difference in your drawings that was installed on the starboard funnel area.

_________________
Gabriel

Don't forget the island is different from the Merit kit.

_________________
Martin

"Tomorrow is the most important thing in life. Comes into us at midnight very clean. It's perfect when it arrives and it puts itself in our hands. It hopes we've learned something from yesterday." John Wayne

Ship Model Gallery

In Sep '42, Enterprise only had one 20MM cut out on each side of the aft round down, as on Hornet. A significant number of 20MM were added in the catwalks during her repair after Eastern Solomons, which was when the aft round down cut out numbers were increased to 2 per side. Also during that repair, the flag bridge - open bridge was removed and an SC variant radar added to the side of the stack.

And no, the flightdeck was not widened during the war. Her overall width was increased by the addition of the various gun tubs.

HI all and much thanks for the answers.

I think I have a handle on what I need to do for a particular time. Now I just need to decide on what it is I want to depict.

I do have another question and this one is more of a marine architectural or structural engineering one. I have ordered some strip and I-beam styrene to replicate the under bow support structures on both models and I was thinking that the longitudinal beams would have been one continuous support while the crosswise breams would have been cut to fit in between the longitudinal beams and then riveted and or welded in place. Is this correct?

Thanks again and have a great weekend,
Mark B.

Hey David,

I had a little setback when I realized I had miscalculated the scale of the CV-5 plans. I had to redo my measurements and I did a little more research and found some photos of the 1938 Builders Model for the Yorktown. They show that the whole support structure is one lattice structure of uniform depth.


While looking at this I realized that it does not matter which way the beams are pieced together on a scale model and it's going to come down to how best to incorporate the catapult equipment enclosures into the structure since they seem to go all the way up to the bottom of flight deck.

Thanks for the assist.

The 1/200 instructions show the steel decks aside from the flight deck as being the same color as the hull. I’m assuming this is an error and they were deck blue?

I believe the Trumpeter kit represents the ship during the time of Midway?

I seem to recall I believe Eduard made stand along PE degaussing cables for these models?

_________________
Thomas E. Johnson

http://www.youtube.com/user/ThomasEJohnson

You are correct about the steel decks being 20B. Also the metal areas on the flight deck. The wood itself was Norfolk 250N which was designed to be the same shade as 20B, but actually came out a tad lighter as it was a wood stain and not a paint like 20B.

As for the kit time frame, I believe you have a choice of either Midway or Santa Cruz if memory serves. Although the planes provided are Midway.

With respect to the PE, I have no idea.

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Gabriel

I don't see anything in Eduard's catalog for Enterprise, only Hornet. Nor do I see degaussing cables.

As mentioned a page back, I used plastic rod for the degaussing cables on my 1/350 Enterprise. Something to consider. It wasn't hard to do.

If the 1/200 is simply an upscale of the 1/350 kit, then it's a Santa Cruz fit, which was different from the Midway fit - 40mm instead of 1.1 inch guns, more 20mm, etc. You'd need to source some TBFs for that version, if you are going to depict the entire air group.

_________________
Martin

"Tomorrow is the most important thing in life. Comes into us at midnight very clean. It's perfect when it arrives and it puts itself in our hands. It hopes we've learned something from yesterday." John Wayne

Ship Model Gallery

I am very familiar with this model, having seen it close up many times. It is ironic that a sixteen foot long ship model is less superdetailed than most current well-built 1/350 models of the same subject. The support structures for the forward and aft flight deck areas are VERY simplified. These areas befuddled me for quite a while, even with the MD Silver plans because the plans themselves are all orthogonal projections and so it can be hard to visual certain areas without seeing them from an angle other than 90 degrees. Fortunately there is a solution. If you do a search for the Infini models site, then select the full detail up P/E set for either YORKTOWN or ENTERPRISE, then examine the instructions for either set you will see highly detailed photos of the P/E in both those key areas. You will be amazed what is hard to see in photos pop in extreme detail in the P/E photos. Suffice it to say there is a mass of support girders under the flight deck and they vary in size from the heavy support beams, to the crossing frames, to shorter but more numerous supports for the flight deck wood beams.
Personally, after looking those sets over, for my April 1942 HORNET I chose the ENTERPRISE P/E set because it had the proper gun tubs (except for the #4 1.1") among other details.

_________________
Some people make you happy, then they leave.
Others make you happy when they leave. (apologies to Oscar Wilde if he ever said anything similar, of which there is some doubt . . .)

Martin -
I bought a set of Eduard's P/E for HORNET. The Infini set is superior. Yeah, I know, it's more expensive too. But when I got the Eduard set in hand it was, of course, for the Trump kit. So some parts were not correctly sized for the Merit kit - either one. Also, the actual etching was uneven. There are some etched holes that are fairly good sized and which etched well. On the other hand, the perforations for the catwalks were not uniformly etched through leaving sections of the catwalk appearing not to be perforated at all. This was not how the set was designed, according to a Rep at Eduard, but because they had to be very precise about the etch time and they didn't always get it right. I was sent some replacements, and when the perforations were properly done, other parts were over-etched and many parts were just floating around in the plastic bag.
John

_________________
Some people make you happy, then they leave.
Others make you happy when they leave. (apologies to Oscar Wilde if he ever said anything similar, of which there is some doubt . . .)

Hi John,


Yes I could see from the rest of the photos that it was "builder grade" (I learned all about this while having a house built). The thing is though that it was designed to get the overall feel of the real thing regarding major assemblies. As such I took it to show that the cross beams and longitudinal beams were the same size height wise.

Thanks for the tip about Infini. I found several pictures on their website of the completed PE for the under deck at the bow and the stern. Judging by several build threads on this and other sites apparently Infini did a much better job at vetting plans than Trumpeter/Merit did.

If I was doing a 1/350 scale Merit Enterprise I might have gone for the Inifini set, but the Revell kits I'm using are 1/487 or there abouts so I will be scartching building the bracing form 1/8 inch Plastruct and Evergeen polystyrene I-beams, strip stock and open web trusses.

Thanks for the assist and hoping you have Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year
Mark B.

Hi Martin,


I was wondering was it rod or rectangular strip stock?

Thanks in advance and wishing you a Merry Christmas and Happy New Year
Mark B.

Expensive super detailing sets are beyond my budget, and I prefer to build from the box as much as possible, although I’ll substitute 3D printed parts if it will make the build easier and less stressful.

The Trumpeter 1/200 kit does include several sizes of brass wire to use for the degaussing cables, as well as a diagram of how to place them.

The first step on the hull however is to get a hold of some hull plating diagrams in order to use the tape & primer method to add hull plating detail to the otherwise featureless smooth hull.

_________________
Thomas E. Johnson

http://www.youtube.com/user/ThomasEJohnson