The Ship Model Forum

Hmmm, the molded Fujimi flight deck has planking extending to well past the aft end of the crane well on the starboard side of the deck. The photo of the PE tread plate for the curved down portion of the deck as shown above seem to have the planking ending just before the aft end of the crane well. Which is right?

This should be easy to tell from any aerial photo of the ship because according to the photo Dan posted, the entire treade patterned portion of the flight deck is painted in red and white stripes.

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The planking on the real ships extended to the top of the highlighted landing area, about even with the leading edge of the outrigger sponsons. Don't have the kit in front of me but, there shouldn't be any metal plating there, as the photo indicates.

But the PE that comes with 1944 Zukaku seems indicate a much longer stretch of tread plates at the aft end of the deck then the molding deck of the 1942 Shokaku. The PE seem to show the tread plates terminates just ahead of the deck well where the crane rests. On 1942 Shokaku, the inscribed planking extends much further aft. Where the 2 ships different in this respect?


Also, the PE sets contains what appears to be passenger liner style deck chairs for some of the short galleries around the edge of the flight deck. Are these really deck chairs? There are quite a few of these. Who gets to lounge around sun bathing on deck chairs in a warship? Do IJN pilots get special priviliges?

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To the best of my knowledge, the sisters were not different in this respect. I've no idea where/what Fujimi/KA is using for references. All plansets and available photos (admittedly not great in terms of clear views) show wood extending to the point where the latttice outriggers extend outward. Below is a photo of Zuikaku in the fall of 1941. The starboard outrigger is in the bottom left of the photo. The men are scrubbing the deck exactly in that space, past the crane recess.

One possible source for the the alleged deck plating in this area is the well known 1/100 Zuikaku model. It shows metal plating in this area. However, all available source information indicates otherwise. I have communicated at length with Toshifumi Kimoto (of the Vanguard website) on this point over time. I consider him to be the most knowledgeable source known to me on the Shokakus. He agrees it's wood only.

I don't know about chairs but there are several benches all along the catwalks. For rest for all crew, not just aircrew. Take another look at the photo of Zukikau's flight deck heading towards Hawaii in Dec 1941 on p2 of this thread. There's a bench visible on the lower right side, between the 12.7cm mounts. HTH

Arcane question: Are the doors over the deck recess for the crane hinged on the inboard or outboard side? I intend to open up the recess and show the inside of the crane well. Fujimi has the crane mast sticking straight up through the recess doors, and the doors do not lay flush with the deck and forms a nice wheel trap for any airplanes operating on deck.

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It's a good question. I'm not sure. Will check the Gran Prix Shuppan volume this weekend. For some reason, I am under the impression that the doors are a series of plates that stack under each other forward or aft when open, as opposed to a hinged door.

Incidentally, I have just found that the revised Miyukikai plan set for Zuikaku 1943 shows a thin band of metal plating (est. 2-3m) between the end of the planking and the start of the treaded, red & white banded round down. Probably the source for Fujimi.

Hello everyone I am new to the forum and relatively new to model ship building and a huge IJN fan. I love thsee two sister ships and would like some advice as to who has the best kit available for either one of these beauties! And where to get it as my local stores are terrible.
Thanks in advance,
Michael

Photos clear show the uppermost tier of galleries with the benches had proforated floors. What about the lower tiers of galleries with the AA guns, directors and boat handling equipment? Also what about the upper boat deck in the stern of the ship? Fujimi seems to apply solid tread pattern plates as a matter of course to all deck surfaces and gallery floors, but I suspect that would not have been the case with weight concious Japanese, especially with the galleries which would need good drainage to quickly discharge any water that comes into them in heavy weather.

Also, are there any photos of the landing light arrangement on the Shokaku?

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To Chuck #1: A/c crane doors are hinged, but am not certain if they open outboard or inboard

To Mdreb: in 1/350, only Fujimi makes these kits. In 1/700, the original kits were issued by Fujimi 30+ years ago, then updated and improved (but not w/o errors) versions were issued by Tamiya in 1993-4, IIRC. However, Fujimi has just announced a new Shokaku release for later this year so, you might want to hold off until the reviews come in. Nichimo makes a 1/500 version that's also about 30+ years old, also a simplistic 30cm box version.

To Chuck #2: Lower, main gun decks appear to be solid. Below is a photo of a damaged 25mm gallery on Shokaku post Coral Sea and you can see the treading between the mount postions. OTOH, the forward catwalks leading from the forwardmost 12.7cm mounts to the forecastle are mesh. This was done on all IJN CVs to minimize wave action damage. Sorry to say that I don;t have a photo showing the landing light array. There may be one around.

Damaged boat deck photo below as well - solid.

Thanks for the info Dan K. I am trying to find some of the references that are listed on the forum. Very hard to come by. Is there a particular reference for Shokaku that I should hunt down?

It's been several year's since I built the sisters (http://www.modelshipgallery.com/gallery ... index.html )so, some newer reference material is available but, these are a good starting point:

Gakken #13 – Shokaku class CVs
Gakken Deluxe vol. 3 – 1/100 Superscale Aircraft Carrier Zuikaku
Gakken Perfect Guide to IJN CVs
Futubasha Super Detail 3D CG Shokaku Class CVs
Maru Specials #s 6, 129, 130
Gran Prix Shuppan Anatomy of IJN CVs
Kojinsha Mechanisms of IJN CVs
Model Art vol. #505 – 1/700 scale Shokaku
Miyukikai 1/200 plans – Zuikaku, 1943 - revised edition
Vanguard website, IJN aircraft carrier gallery - http://homepage2.nifty.com/vanguard/intro/main2.htm

If you can find the first two, those would be very helpful. The Miyukikai planset, and T. Kimoto's website, will also be most useful.

The tub for the 25mm AA directors appears to be much deeper then depicted by Fujimi.

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Thanks again Dan K. I will do some searching and see what I come up with.
Your models are excellant!!

Chuck - just shocking, no? FWIW, the Gran Prix Shuppan vol. has a cutaway side view of the director and tub but no dimensions. I did measure it though and can tell you that the rim of the tub sans cover is 2/3rds the height of the director. Not sure how much that helps.

Michael - thx. I actually posted the link not for my ego, but to make a point about references and how information is always evolving, even now. The funny thing about references is how they can bite you in the ass. My sisters were finished about 7-8 years ago. I was, and am, still very proud of them but, both are are incorrect.

It has only come to light in the last few years that the Type 94 HA director that sat on top the island was not deleted upon the installation of radar, only moved to the port side of the ship, near the one already there. My Zukikaku lacks that, and should not be carrying to the Type 13 radar on her mainmast.

The Shokaku is even worse. That configuration is actually Zuikaku's in 1942 (Shokaku had already received her radar upgrade upon repair from the Coral Sea) but the model carries Shokaku's deck markings. There was no way to backdate her as Shokaku without severe damage so, I reworked her into a 1944 version. One day, I'll post new pix.

In the meantime, I had been preparing to build yet another, improved version, but done very little work. Now, with the advent of the new Fujimi kit, I'm waiting to see how good that one is. Anything that minimizes the effort to correct a kit these days is a good thing for me.

I can list some MG Navy Yard specials and MA Ship Modeling Specials that display very nice, and correct, models of the sisters if you'd like. Not as good as primary sources but still helpful.

Is there a scale & version in particular that you are interested in?

Dan, one more question:

Typically on Japanese warships, the railing around the deck edge seems to be made from chains stretched between stanchions, where as railings on the superstructure and masts appear to be made from steel tubes or bars. On the carriers, I assume the f'c'stle and fantail railing are the chain type, and those on the island the steel tube type. Some photos seems to show the uppermost tier of galleries around the deck edge with the benches had steel tube railings since there are sailors sitting on the top bar of the railings. What about the lower galleries and catwalks, did they have tube or chain railings?

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Just so we're on the same page, Chuck, can you give a sample location or two?

On IJN destroyers, there are elaborate winches and dedicated crane like devices near the fantail for handling the paravane. On cruisers and battleships I assume the folding davits on hull side and the ship's capstan can be used to handle the paravanes.

This might be nitpicking, but on the Shokaku, the paravanes are stowed on a platform underneath the forward AA battery where no easy run of cable exist from the f'c'stle. Fujimi depicts no discernable mechanical aid anywhere near by. How does the crew handle the paravane without any appearent mechanical aid nearby?

Also, Fujimi's depiction of Shokaku's anchor capstans is not only without any detail whatsoever, but is also impossibly located since the capstan does not line up with the anchor chain chaffing plate on the f'c'stle deck. There is also no opening into the chain locker beneath.

Fujimi calls for a third full sized anchor stowed in the stern hawse pipe. Is this correct? Is the stern anchor as large as the bow anchors? Did the Shokaku carry 1-2 compact stream anchor stowed against hull side like other large Japanese warships? If the stern anchor is full sized, how come its capstan is so tiny?

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There are no photos but plans show a folding paravane davit on that same platform, both sides, placed just about in line with the forward edge of the the #2 & 4 12.7cm mounts.

The only photo of the capstans that I know of was taken after Coral Sea - below - not sure that this very helpful.

I'm not certain but I do not believe it was a full size anchor. I thnk there's a photo - will try to check tonite.

Does the paravane davit fold flat on the platform on against the side of the platform? Is it the curved tubular type?

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I would like to start with 1/700 scale, not particular about version at the moment as you guys are so far ahead of me...
Also trying to decide on a heavy cruiser and a DD, soft spot for Yukikaze. I have a soft spot for the Akagi and Soryu as well on and on and on..
Will also wait for the Fujimi Shokaku to see how the kit is rated. This is all a new adventure for me and as with everything
I do like this I get completely obssessed, so excuse me if I ask stupid questions. I am a history buff and as such have many books on the Pacific war
but they talk about the campaigns and but no real details on the ships as far as being helpful with modeling.
Thank you again for any help I have already picked up quite a bit.