The Ship Model Forum

AFAIK, all of the IJN warships had their names in raised letters on the stern. I believe they were painted out come wartime. There's a well known photo of Ayanami, sunk, in the Ballard book on Guadalcanal. The lettering on the stern is clearly visible.

So.... Unless I want to do some insane photo etched hiragana that can be used to create the ship's names on the sterns (even painted over), then simply ignoring them on a 1/700 scale ship is easiest (unless I am doing it for a competition)?

That is at least one less thing to worry about.

Now I just have to wait for eBay sales of stuff so that I can pay to have the PE frets done for the Nagara (one .02", and one .015"... Or is it .01"???). I have the PE for the bridge done, and most of the details for the rest of the ship (save for rails, as I mentioned). I still need to do some ladders, though.

Looking at how they go together, though, that is going to be one difficult part to assemble.

Oh! The walkway over the forward torpedo well... Was this a grill, or metal mesh, or was it textured/cross-hatch metal?

I have seen some pictures of it from the sides, showing a few support gussets along its length. But nothing in enough detail to get an idea of whether it is anything more than just a piece of flat metal.

Some of the model builds I have seen have a combination of things for the walkway. Some have it as a metal grill, and others as a gusseted cross-hatched metal plate. The grill seems to look more aesthetic, but I would rather be accurate than aesthetic in any case.

MB

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1/700 (All Fall 1942):
HIJMS Nagara
HIJMS Aoba & Kinugasa
USS San Francisco
USS Helena
USS St. Louis
USS Laffey & Farenholt
HIJMS Sub-Chasers No. 4 - 7
HIJMS Sub-Chasers No. 13 - 16

Given that the names were painted out, I don't know that I'd worry about the name on the stern unless one were doing a prewar version. Very few Japanese modelers bother including them even on those beautiful large scale models in the Gakken volumes unless it's prewar.

Good question on the walkway. I'm going out of town for a few days, so I don't have time to address it now. I'd be happy to upon my return.

And from two years ago, in one of the most convoluted threads on this site, comes the chart I have been looking for for half a year (Vallejo Color equivalents).

BTW, can we start a thread specifically for the Kuma and Nagara-class ships, and another one for the Sendais?

MB

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Working on:


1/700 (All Fall 1942):
HIJMS Nagara
HIJMS Aoba & Kinugasa
USS San Francisco
USS Helena
USS St. Louis
USS Laffey & Farenholt
HIJMS Sub-Chasers No. 4 - 7
HIJMS Sub-Chasers No. 13 - 16

There is a photo on the prior page from the Lacroix & Wells IJN Cruiser Bible of the Nagara's bridge (from the side) that shows the railings wrapping around the uprights of the tripod forward mast.

I could swear that I saw another similar photo, but more from behind the ship.

In anticipation of getting a little money for Christmas, I am hoping that I will be able to get my PE frets made for the Nagara Bridge and ship Details (for the fujimi kit - although I suppose the bridge would work for the Tamiya kit as well).

So, I am cleaning up the PE template patterns, and adding the side supports for the aft deck platforms to the bridge body itself (the strips with holes drilled in them), as that would seem to be the best way to get a more structurally sound (stronger) model from the PE.

But it would really help to have some better photos of the bridge.

MB

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Working on:


1/700 (All Fall 1942):
HIJMS Nagara
HIJMS Aoba & Kinugasa
USS San Francisco
USS Helena
USS St. Louis
USS Laffey & Farenholt
HIJMS Sub-Chasers No. 4 - 7
HIJMS Sub-Chasers No. 13 - 16

If one wanted to backdate the Fujimi 1/700 Isuzu AA cruiser kit to 1941, during her participation in the December invasion of Hong Kong, I am guessing that I have to make the ff. changes, right?

1.) Add a catapult with floatplane
2.) reduce AA mounts to pre-1943 configuration
3.) Add number 5 gun back

The only reference of the differences between her earlier and later wartime fits was seems to be this excerpt from Isuzu's TROM at combinedfleet.com:

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"Haijun" means "navy" in Mandarin Chinese.

"You have enemies? Good. It means you stood up for something in your life."- Winston Churchill

You are going to need to add back Guns 1, 2, 3, & 4 as well.

They were all landed to be replaced by the Type 89 12.7cm DP Gun that was on the forecastle.

It would probably be easier to start with another kit, and then re-build the Isuzu's bridge, as the rest of the ships were pretty much identical (save for half of the Nagara-class had the aft raised-deck on the port and the others on the Starboard - I cannot recall which ones).

The Tamiya Kinu would work for the Isuzu in 1941/42, with a different bridge. But you would need to do some work on the aft raised-deck to get it to look correct (the Tamiya kits have these decks as bare-metal, when they had linoleum on them at the time). The Tamiya Nagara PE set would work with the kit, but would require surgery on the deck pieces (I have been struggling with whether to buy this kit to build my own Tamiya Nagara, or to work with the scratch-built stuff I have, and a collection of PE components).

I will eventually be building this same ship, and I have been struggling with what to do about it.

MB

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Working on:


1/700 (All Fall 1942):
HIJMS Nagara
HIJMS Aoba & Kinugasa
USS San Francisco
USS Helena
USS St. Louis
USS Laffey & Farenholt
HIJMS Sub-Chasers No. 4 - 7
HIJMS Sub-Chasers No. 13 - 16

The torpedoes were also completely reconfigured. There was an open section just behind the bridge on a lower level that had two twin launchers. That was covered and the aft twin launcher became quads.

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Gabriel

Looking at the Isuzu, the aft decking was on the same side as the Kinu and Nagara.

It had a flat roofed bridge earlier in its career, like the Kinu.

So your best bet is to just get a Kinu, and alter the wind Baffles below the bridge to fit those of the Isuzu (which, now that I think about it, may have been like the Kinu's).

The Nagara-class was very homogeneous as far as the armament, pre-1943, save for a few differences in 13.7mm AA gun outfit (Some of the ships had a quad 13.7mm set of guns on the front of the bridge, others had two twin 13.7mms on the front of the bridge).

From reading the TROM of the Isuzu, it looks to have had a single Quad 13.7mm set of guns on the front of the bridge. See 19 Jan 1943, when it begins its conversion to an CLAA:

http://www.combinedfleet.com/isuzu_t.htm

Prior to this it had the same outfit as the Kinu (2 Twin 25mm AA guns next to the fore stack, 1 quad 13.7mm AA gun on the front of the bridge, the seven 140mm guns in their typical locations, and the four sets of twin 93mm Long Lance torpedo tubes), and a similar appearance (flat roofed bridge).

MB

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Working on:


1/700 (All Fall 1942):
HIJMS Nagara
HIJMS Aoba & Kinugasa
USS San Francisco
USS Helena
USS St. Louis
USS Laffey & Farenholt
HIJMS Sub-Chasers No. 4 - 7
HIJMS Sub-Chasers No. 13 - 16

Question about the Nagara:



The image includes two annotations: An oval and a rectangle.

The oval looks to be highlighting (calling to attention) what appears to be a splinter shield on the back of the upper platform of the Nagara.

Is that indeed what this is?

Because that certainly doesn't look like Canvas covered railing back there (it is higher than the railing, for one, and it appears to be darker than the canvas (as well as solid) for another.

Any thoughts on this?

The Rectangle encloses what looks to be two ladders (at the top left of the rectangle... But where are they going if those are ladders?

It also appears to surround what looks like a housing that is supporting the rangefinder on the roof that extends down two levels, and extends beyond the aft bulkhead of the bridge tower.

Is that what I am seeing?

I am trying to finalize the models and patterns for a 3D printed structure for the bridge (for any Nagara-class, just add different roof or platforms for the different classes), and Photo Etch details to go with it (windows, platforms, mast structures (and mast and yardarms).

But I am having trouble with those structures.

Also, does anyone have images of underneath those platforms.

I have only one, and it shows a grid structure of supporting beams. I am wondering if they would be worth making additional PE components for the supports, or if a simple etched-in pattern on the platform will be sufficient.

MB

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Working on:


1/700 (All Fall 1942):
HIJMS Nagara
HIJMS Aoba & Kinugasa
USS San Francisco
USS Helena
USS St. Louis
USS Laffey & Farenholt
HIJMS Sub-Chasers No. 4 - 7
HIJMS Sub-Chasers No. 13 - 16

I cannot speak with authority on the ship, but the Flyhawk set had a railing there not a splintershield. The item in the rectangle spears to my eye to be rigging.

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Gabriel

Whether Flyhawk had a railing there or not is good to know, but the photo seems to show what looks like a splinter shield.

And in the Rectangle, the ladder, or what looks to be a ladder, is behind the "Rigging" (I can see the lines running up from the deck).

The "Ladders" are underneath the canvas canopy on the upper.

MB

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Working on:


1/700 (All Fall 1942):
HIJMS Nagara
HIJMS Aoba & Kinugasa
USS San Francisco
USS Helena
USS St. Louis
USS Laffey & Farenholt
HIJMS Sub-Chasers No. 4 - 7
HIJMS Sub-Chasers No. 13 - 16

I believe there is a bulwark or splinter shield around that position, though what the purpose is I do not know. Some other views below.



There are ladders between decks. The Abukuma pic shows something similar. I have some plans that outline these as well and must dig those up.



Definitely the upper, compass deck. Not sure about a lower deck. Could be, looking at the Abukuma photo. But, her rangefinder is larger than Nagara's, 6m vs. 4.5m.



Not I. Love to see yours.

one other view of that position on Nagara.

Thank you Dan.

The rear of the Upper Platform on the Nagara clearly shows a platform that is raised about 12" to 18" above the platform, and sticks out in a sort of /⁻\ shape (although obviously wider and shallower than my pitiful ascii text illustration can provide).

I also just noticed something about the aft end of the Radio House on the Second Platform.

It has a bevel that also is about 12" to 18" above the platform.

From both the profile view, and the aft views you have graciously provided, the line of the platform deck is below the bevel edge on the aft bulkhead of that housing. And the bevel continues as a solid enclosure all the way down to the base of the platform supports.

Which means that I YET AGAIN need to re-create the platforms on my 3D model, and for the PE parts (The 3D model is just to provide a simulated test-fitting for the PE parts on the 3D Printed structure - Autodesk Inventor can import the drawing, and then approximate tolerances on it given the size and materials designated). But it also means a much more simplistic shape to the platforms, which look to have much squarer backs on them that the drawings I have of the ship (showing rounded aft curves to the platform decks).

But did the Nagara get any major refits or rebuilds between the 1937 photos here, and 1942 that might have eliminated that raised platform and splinter shielding on the aft of the upper platform on the bridge?

What about the other ships in the class?

Are there any photos of the aft of their bridges that would show a difference?

Oh!

And what about the ladders and the housing below the rangefinder on the bridge I asked about earlier?

MB

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Working on:


1/700 (All Fall 1942):
HIJMS Nagara
HIJMS Aoba & Kinugasa
USS San Francisco
USS Helena
USS St. Louis
USS Laffey & Farenholt
HIJMS Sub-Chasers No. 4 - 7
HIJMS Sub-Chasers No. 13 - 16

Well, none that I'm aware of, or is listed in L & W. Such a change would be considered minor, IMHO, and not be documented.



I haven't seen any on any of the sisters. Not that many shots from the rear of these that are clear, anyway.



On the top deck (compass deck), given the angle of sight, I believe we are actually looking at a portion of the deck, between two perimeter lines. A ladder in that spot would lead to nowhere. Access to the foretop above is via a vertical ladder attached to the mast foreleg. I think we are seeing something similar below as well. Access ladder to the decks are placed further aft on each deck.

I hate having to post another post below the one above, but I want to get the topics separate.

• Hatches in the Bridge (under the platforms).

On the Middle Platform, I can see a hatch on the port side of the platform, to the inside of the bridge.

Was this the only hatch on that level?

What about the lower platform? Where was the hatch into the bridge structure, given that there does not appear to be a ladder from the lowest platform to the middle (indicating that the ladder is inside the superstructure)?

What about on the main deck? Were there any hatches into the Bridge below the lowest platform? Or immediately into the deckhouse on which this lowest platform rests?

• Yardarms and Starfish.

I seem to recall that during that the Nagara-class had all but one yardarm (above the Starfish) removed during the refits in the late-30s (during which time the pair of Twin AA guns were installed on the front platform)

Would that have been the upper, shorter yardarm that was retained, given that rigging tended to be strung between this yardarm and the yardarm on the aft mast?

As for the Starfish, there is an image of this on an earlier page of this thread that seems to show that the Starfish had no actual "platform" on the front portion of the starfish (only the aft was covered with a platform), and that the forward structure just consisted of a pair support gussets for each of the arms of the Starfish.

I am trying to figure out how this would be best modeled, since it would require some very thin arms arranged in a hexagonal (or octagonal) pattern around the masts.

I am trying to also figure out how the upper mast was attached to the lower tripod masts.

Any help, please?

MB

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Working on:


1/700 (All Fall 1942):
HIJMS Nagara
HIJMS Aoba & Kinugasa
USS San Francisco
USS Helena
USS St. Louis
USS Laffey & Farenholt
HIJMS Sub-Chasers No. 4 - 7
HIJMS Sub-Chasers No. 13 - 16

This plan excerpt for Abukuma is the only one that I have for any of the Flt 2 ships that gives you an idea of the access ways between decks. Not sure that there were any hatches above the main deck, just openings.



I've got the illustration of Tama's foretop from the GPS cruiser volume plus these shots of Natori's foretop. While the Tama's structure above the starfish is different, the starfish itself is not. Natori's foretop was identical to that of Nagara.

As far as the yardarm goes, my belief is that it was an all new yardarm whose length was halfway between the two that were removed.

How does the new tool Fujimi Isuzu compare to the Tamiya kit? All I really know is that there is 2 Isuzu's in the box, which I find a bit strange!

thanks
Mike

I don't have the kit, so I can't say. From what I see, I do like how the Fujimi kit eliminates the need to fill in the forward torpedo well, and eliminates the two piece main deck. Maybe someone who has built it can chime in?

2 kits per box - no clue. They seem to suggest two versions with minor fit changes.