The Ship Model Forum

I am not sure that this is a correct interpretation of the photos. Quincy does have two "davits" aft of the catapult bases. However, if you examine things closely, a couple of inconsistencies become apparent. First, the davits are smaller than the ones used on the boats further forward. Second, the spacing between davits seems to be too small for the cutters that were carried forward of the catapult bases.

Reviewing my photo files leads me to a different interpretation. Astoria, Tuscaloosa, and Vincennes each carried a single "davit" on either side just forward of the hangar. (In wartime only - the "davits" were not there pre-war.) Obviously, a single davit would not be enough to lift and hold a boat. Checking the photo of Quincy in camo prior to receiving radar and her 20MM guns shows that she had the two "davits" on the starboard side while still carrying the cutter forward of the catapult base. None of the photos I have seen show a boat stowed near those "davits" aft of the cats. So my interpretation is that these "davits" are small utility cranes. The boats forward of the catapults were simply removed as part of the overall reduction of ship's boats, although it is possible that the starboard boat was still carried. (Astoria deleted her port side cutter, but retained the starboard one.)

Thanks, Dick, that conforms more to what I could find in photographs for Quincy, too. I couldn't find one with the cutter aft, either, but I'm still learning how to interpret photos. It has to be really plain, and preferably close up, for me to feel comfortable.

And thanks for the note about Astoria. I hope to model all seven of the New Orleans class but having grown up in Astoria she's special and I care most about getting her right.

Gents, I did a search and looked up the reviews without luck finding what I needed, so I apologize if this following question has been asked already:

Can one use Trumpeter's 1/700 San Francisco 1944 kit to make a 1944/45 New Orleans or Minneapolis?

All it says in the Trumpeter review of the Frisco kit is that it can be converted into the a later war Tuscaloosa. So were the differences between the two sisters above, and the rest of the surviving members of the class, too numerous in the late war configuration?

_________________
"Haijun" means "navy" in Mandarin Chinese.

"You have enemies? Good. It means you stood up for something in your life."- Winston Churchill

The '44 Frisco is probably closest to the '44 Minneapolis, differing in the turrets and some minor placement of 20MM etc. There was also a slight variation in the wings on the pilothouse level (since Frisco initially eliminated them entirely only to add them back later) depending on how anal you wish to be. There will be a relatively small amount of scratch buiding required in any case. New Orleans is a bit trickier since, aside from the different turrets, she retained a bit more of the original signal bridge front than her sisters, and the starboard 40MM atop the hangar was positioned further aft. Also, the 20MM gallery around the front of the bridge was a bit lower than on the others, as were the 40MM quads abeam the bridge. NO's fantail quad tubs did not overhang the sides of the ship as they did on the other 3. (NO and Minnie had their fantail quads added at Pearl in late '42. During her '43 repair, Minnie had her tubs replaced by the overhanging type. NO did not.)

As with everything else, Tuscaloosa was very different in her late war mods. The 5" arrangement was different through her whole career. She retained more of the original pilothouse. The bridge wings were different and her flag-bags were carried one level higher than the others. Her forward 40MM were lower than on San Fran and Minnie (neither she nor NO had the 1/2 level added pre-war, so the 40MM were positioned at the original signal bridge level). Her fantail 40MM tubs were different, her vents aft of the #2 stack were different, her 20MM arrangement was different. In short, Tuscaloosa would require the MOST scratchbuilding in a conversion from the '44 San Fran kit! (In all fairness, San Fran and Tuscaloosa did have the same turrets and for a time, the same camo scheme - so I guess that would make them more alike. Right?? The differences really become obvious only after you study them for a while.)

Just curious - any good technical books on the NO class ships, particularly Tuscaloosa? As well, did she have a nickname?

Thanks!
Kyle

_________________
Shipmodels Gallery \/

http://www.modelshipgallery.com/gallery ... index.html

The best books on the class are Steve Wiper's book (out of print) and Lester Abbey's Shipcrafter book. Neither highlights all of the specific uniquenesses of the Tuscaloosa. I have only slowly picked out some of her differences from the photos over time - still an ongoing process. Drop me a line if you need anything specific. I'll see if I can help. As for any nickname, I haven't heard of one, but then, I haven't seen a book exclusively about her.

Thank you sir! I was eyeballing that Warship Pictorial but ooh... Prices are steep.

Kyle

_________________
Shipmodels Gallery \/

http://www.modelshipgallery.com/gallery ... index.html

Question - building Tuscaloosa late 42-43 ish.

What AA guns did she have in the rearmost tubs and the upper tubs around the bridge? I don't *think* they're quad Bofors, atleast in pics. Seems to either be the dual Bofors or the 1.1 inchers.

Also, when did the stern depth charge racks disappear? Trumpeter kit has them but it looks like they were gone by '42.

Kyle

_________________
Shipmodels Gallery \/

http://www.modelshipgallery.com/gallery ... index.html

The Oct '42 photo shows the quad 1.1's still in place, and I have no clear photos of any 40MM on board prior to her bridge rebuild. It is possible the after 1.1's were replaced, but I have nothing concrete on it. No New Orleans class ship had quad 40MM in the tubs above the pilothouse. When New Orleans and Minneapolis had their aft quad 1.1's replaced with quad 40MM in Sep/Oct '42, they both retained the 1.1's forward. The forward quad 40MM were added when the bridges were rebuilt in 1943, and were 1 level (Tuscaloosa and New Orleans) or 1 1/2 levels (Minneapolis and San Francisco) higher than the raised 5" mounts. Except for the '42 Pearl Harbor refits on New Orleans and Minneapolis, the stern tubs projected beyond the sides of the ships after the quad 40MM upgrade was done. While undergoing her big repair in '43, Minnie had her after tubs replaced by the overhanging type. New Orleans' non-overhanging tubs were a recognition point for the remainder of their careers.

As for the depth charges, it was decided at the start of the war to add a depth charge rack to the sterns of the cruisers to allow them to drop what was called an "embarassing charge" on any sub that was too close to be avioded, in hopes that it would keep the sub down long enough for one of the escorts to prosecute the contact. The order was very quickly rescinded and few large cruisers actually got the racks before they were ordered removed. Cruisers had too few opportunities to do this to justify the hazard the DC's were in other forms of combat. April '42 photos of Tuscaloosa appear to show the after end of the quarterdeck free of any DC racks.

Thank you sir!

Kyle

_________________
Shipmodels Gallery \/

http://www.modelshipgallery.com/gallery ... index.html

Looking for a quick OOB build of NO class in 1/700. Of the Trumpeter's kits, which comes closes to the named ship?

Astoria, Minneapolis, or San Francisco (1942 version) are closest. New Orleans is not far behind. For total accuracy, all require some tweaks, but these four are in the ball park.

Whaaat?

You telling me there's bigger problems with the Quincy, Vincennes and Tuscaloosa 1/700 kits from Trumpeter?

_________________
"Haijun" means "navy" in Mandarin Chinese.

"You have enemies? Good. It means you stood up for something in your life."- Winston Churchill

I don't know if you are kidding or what, but this has been covered extensively in the earlier pages of this thread. Quincy and Vincennes were modified to reduce the weight to allow for later AA additions. Turret I was moved back 8', requiring the removal of the O-1 level superstructure around the front of the barbette for turret II. The kits show the superstructure mod but don't relocate the first turret. The splinter screens for the 5" mounts are in Quincy's pattern which is wrong for Vincennes. Both have the superstructure proportions wrong (too low among other things) and Vincennes had different main battery directors which are not shown in the kit. Vinnie's 20MM arrangement also has issues.

Tuscaloosa, on the other hand, was closer to San Francisco than to the Quincy, but she still had some features unique to her. Trumpy duplicated the Quincy kit - TOTALLY WRONG! None of Tuscaloosa's unique features are present in the kit. The San Francisco 1944 kit has significant proportion issues with the bridge structure. I haven't put one enough together to ID any other issues. All 8 kits have the capstans in the wrong place. On Quincy and Vincennes, the capstans were moved forward (clear of the guns) to shorten the length of chain on deck. All others had the capstans almost as far back as the barbette for turret I. Trumpy split the difference on all kits ensuring that all were equally wrong.

And the list goes on.

Thank you Dick.

What color scheme would the Seagulls have in late '42-43? I'm guessing not tri color, appears to be like an overall grayish?

Thanks!

Kyle

_________________
Shipmodels Gallery \/

http://www.modelshipgallery.com/gallery ... index.html

In early to mid 1941, the USN dropped the pre-war bright colors and went to an overall light gray, called by some "neutralty gray". Late in 1941, they changed the top side to non-specular sea blue, retaining the gray underside. This combination was retained until the middle of 1943.

Hi,

I finally bought the Shipcraft book on the New Orleans class. Aside from your comments below, I am surprised by the amount of errors in some of the Trumpeter kits mentioned in the book's reviews. Thus I am disappointed considering the praise given to Trumpeter kits for releasing kits on subjects that weren't covered much or ever before in plastic.

_________________
"Haijun" means "navy" in Mandarin Chinese.

"You have enemies? Good. It means you stood up for something in your life."- Winston Churchill

Having these kits as starting points sure beats having to totally scratch-build the things. That said, Trumpy could have done some better research. Since the Quincy and Vincennes kits had unique forward decks, Trumpy could certainly have included the unique placement of the base for turret I and the capstans. If you start with the right specific kit, though, all of it is fixable. Its just too bad you have to do it that way. Cudos to them for producing the kits, but a bit more attention to detail would have been appreciated too.

Hey everyone,

I just was absorbing all of the great photos in the CW pictorial on this class that I recently obtained. A couple of questions/observations popped in my mind from observations of the New Orleans, Minneapolis and the Vincennes.

#1- It has been mentioned and confirmed that the NO and the Minnie had quad 40's installed in their stern tubs during brief refit at Pearl prior to Tassafaronga. In reviewing this book, a photo of the New Orleans jumped out at me, it isn't dated but is the upper photo on page 8. This image shows 3-20mm's along the port side hangar roof. Then, a tub with another 20mm located on the roof of turret #3. That would put her 20mm armament at 15-20mm in late 42'. Now, there are no shots of the Minnie in this book from the same time period, but the beautiful color centerfold of her departing PH bound for Mare Island shows an empty tub atop turret #3 and the same splinter shielding that I believe is also empty atop of the hangar. In reviewing the Warship Pictorial #2, on page 18 you can see the same arrangement bareley throug the camouflage netting but you can see the 20mm hiding there. Don't know if this is Earth shattering or old news, but hadn't noticed it mentioned in this thread and thought I would throw that out there.

#2- The Vincennes has been already been noticed as taking a somewhat unique path in modifications even from her closest sister the Quincy. On page 54 of the book, we see an almost broadside view of the Vinnie taken in late May of 42'. Below it we see an offset view taken while escorting the Doolittle raid, in both images and the one on page 55 of the Ship Craft book on the class we see what appears to be an undulating single shield running along the 5/25's on the deck similar to the Quincy. But when you look at page 55 in the CW Pictorial, there is elevated shot looking down her length and the shields appear to be individualized like on the other NO class. This is further supported by two photos on pages 53 and 55 purported to be onboard shots showing individual shields. On page 56 we see an almost overhead shot which shows the individual style of shields, but it might also appear that they are bridged near the decks edge with further STS or perhaps canvas covered rail? Does anyone else have thoughts on this? Am I seeing different incarnations or just some optical illusions?

Matt

_________________
In the yards right now:
USS Utah AG-16
On Hold
1/350 USS Portland CA-33 1942
1/350 Trumpeter Texas with a twist