The Ship Model Forum

Dick, I was just reading "The Kellys" and found that Nubian was part of the 14th DF for the 1940-41 period, so I assumed that the aft funnel bands were red over black, but I wasn't sure about the fore funnel band. Thanks for the info.
Regards,
Doug

post deleted

Correction to previous post, should have read `lattice mast fitted` my apology.

Can anyone tell me what the colour of the Funnel bands were of the Tribals of the 4th DF.Looking at Pre-WW2 photos I would hazard a guess at red with a white outline.Am I correct in thinking that?I`ve attached a pic of the Cossack.

Thanks for any help.

Regards Phil

_________________
" If your going though Hell ,keep going!" Winston Churchill

Given the flag superior L, I think your photo shows her in 1938. At that time she was serving with the 1st Tribal Flotilla in the Med so funnels bands at the time of your photo should have been red.

4th DF did not have flotilla funnel marking bands (on the aft funnel). But the divisional leader band on the forward funnel should have stayed red. I think I have a bit of colour film of her at that time (Med - 1939) which may just show the forward funnel - I'll try and dig it out.

Afternote: found the clip. Although the commentary identifies the Tribal as Cossack it was in fact the flotilla leader Afridi so just the 4ft-wide black band around the top of the forward funnel on her.

Many thanks for that, dick

Regards Phil

_________________
" If your going though Hell ,keep going!" Winston Churchill

In my excitement, I rushed out and purchased the Trumpeter 1/350 Eskimo before I read of all the problems. Now, I could use some advice on the easiest way to complete it. I will make some corrections (ie. The pom pom) but others are beyond my skill level.

My thought is to complete the kit as Cossack or Eskimo at the time of Narvik. I figure overall AP507B (?) with the flag superior on pennant number changed from “G” to “F” or no pennant number if it is Cossack? The scheme might be a little boring, but it might be the best to at least attain some accuracy. Would what appear to be 20 mms on the forward superstructure also go? Does the kit supplied tripod mainmast seem a little short?

I had posted this in the general forum, but thought that this might be a better place. Any thoughts or suggestions would be appreciated.


Report this post

This is my solution to the sheer problem on Trumpy`s 350th Tribal.I bent to foscle deck up by 2mm ,supported by a rod of plastic inserted in the hull crosswise .The sides were built using a small trianglular pieces of plastic card ,and and any gaps filled in with "Perfect Body Putty(good stuff that!).I also filled in the holes for the anchors as these are set too low anyway.
I think I`ve got somewhere near the correct sheer.
Cheers Phil

_________________
" If your going though Hell ,keep going!" Winston Churchill

At the time of 'Narvik' the Cossack was definitely AP507B overall, plus still wearing pennant F03, even in May '41 this was still the case:
These stills are from a Pathe film made regarding the sinking of the Bismarck, but were possibly taken already on the occasion of the Altmark incident.

I believe Cossack retained this scheme for considerable time, even after taking over the squadron leader rol from HMS Afridi. Note also the forward funnel, being entirely AP507B, no black painted top part. Only on pictures of Cossack while sinking it is evident she wore the black funnel top, whilst having a colour scheme of AP507A hull with AP507C superstructure. The pennant numbers are not visible then (below the waterline already) but I think would have been deleted by then.

_________________
"I've heard there's a wicked war a-blazing, and the taste of war I know so very well
Even now I see the foreign flag a-raising, their guns on fire as we sail into hell"
Roger Whittaker +9/13/2023

Given that the location of the film's doctorings on the hull correspond with the locations of shell hits suffered at Narvik, and the twin 4.7" at X position, the stills from the British Pathe film must show Cossack returning from Narvik. They certainly show her Narvik appearance.

At the time of the (earlier) Altmark incident she was acting as flotilla leader. At that time she wore no pendant number and did have the leader band at the top of the forward funnel -see various moments in this film:

http://www.britishpathe.com/video/briti ... ms+cossack

Tribals changed their Flag Superior from F to G in 1940 from late spring/early summer onwards.

Thank you Maarten and Dick. Seems like I can do Cossack or Eskimo at the time of Narvik in AP507B as long as I change the flag superior on pennant number from “G” to “F” or I can do Cossack at the time of the Altmark incident with the leader band no pennant number.

Also, thank you Phil for the suggestion on fixing the sheer problem, that is something I might manage.

Any thoughts on whether those are 20 mms on the kits forward superstructure and if the kit supplied tripod mainmast seem a little short?

Regarding the shortness of the masts in the Trumpy kit ,I replaced those in my build of a pre-war HMS Cossack with brass rod as I considered the kit masts too short.If you are planning to do the Cossack at the time of the Altmark incident ,there will be no 20mm on the bridge wings at that time .Apart from the 20mms the kit protrays a pre-war tribal ,another Trumpy time-warp!!

Good luck and an enjoyable build ,whatever you decide to do.

here`s my Cossack model;
http://www.modelshipgallery.com/gallery ... /index.htm

Cheers Phil

_________________
" If your going though Hell ,keep going!" Winston Churchill

I have recently bought Trumpies Huron and after deciding that putting it together as a canadian ship is not feasable (Huron afaik didn't have a tripod mast until after the war) i think about finishing it as HMS Nubian, in a 1944 configuration. Now i wonder about a close match for, the G45 colour of the Admirality Standard late war scheme. Since i absolutely hate enamel paints, i can't go for white ensign's colour so i would have to look for a Vallejo acrylic. After doing some research, G45 seems to be much less green than i first imagined from looking here http://www.world-war.co.uk/destroyers.php3 but i have yet to see the "real" (or white ensign's approach to it) instead of just paint ships.

Does anyone have a piece of advise regarding that problem?

Get the Snyder & Short RN paint chip set that includes G.45 and you can mix and match using your own favorite brand of paint.

_________________
Cheers,
John Snyder
Shady Grove Farm
Shady Grove Farm on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/ShadyGroveDuckEggs

Redshirt - HURON was completed with a tripod mast - the lattice was fitted in 1944.

Lol, i shouldn't write posts just after recovering from a migraine, my last one was a bit garbled
Thanks to John and tjstoneman for their words of advice. Regarding the lattice mast on Huron, are you certain that it was fitted
1944 and not after the war? I got some diverging informations regarding that piece of equipment. Most of the pictures of her (at least the ones i can identify as late ww2 era ) and especialy those with the colour scheme trumpeteer uses seem to show her with a tripod mast, although she did receive a refit in Halifax in late 1944 she also got one after the war so i am somewhat confused . If it realy had the lattice mast in 1944 then i shall declare you my saviour and redeemer since Nubian's late 44 colour scheme is a bit boring, at least compared to Huron's

Yes, see this thread for more discussion on Huron's colours, fit, and Trumpeter's depiction: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=156239#p624449

_________________
De quoi s'agit-il?

I am having a somewhat hard time to find out where exactly the Semtex was applied on a Tribal class destroyer's deck and where it wasn't.
Can anyone point me in the right direction please?

Seeing as how the RAN Tribals don't have a separate thread I'll ask it here. Is there a reliable source for the camo schemes worn by the RAN Tribals? Looks to be solid color(s) and a two tone dazzle but I have no clue what it/they'd be. I'd assume they were standard RN colors but that's never a wise thing to do. I'm specifically interested in HMAS Warramunga during WWII.

Dazzle: https://www.flickr.com/photos/41311545@N05/6741208167/

Also, "I" was their prefix for the duration of the war and "D" wasn't used until postwar correct?

Another issue, were the pennants always carried in large or small format or omitted all together for a time? See photos below.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/ac/HMAS_Warramunga_%28AWM_017128%29.jpg
Is that a tiny "I.44" on her side (ala USN practice) or is that just a patch of missing paint?

This shot of HMAS Arunta shows a large "I.30" in black (?).
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c0/HMAS_Arunta_I30_bridge_July_1943.jpg

Any and all help is appreciated as always
-Mike

PS. One other question pertaining to the trio of 1/700 Trumpy Tribals; do they differ in anything other than the decals? I've found reviews of all but the Huron and decals are all that set the Eskimo and Zulu apart.

_________________
Drawing Board:
1/700 Whiff USS Leyte and escorts 1984
1/700 Whiff USN Modernized CAs 1984
1/700 Whiff ASW Showdown - FFs vs SSGN 1984

Slipway:
1/700 Whiff USN ASW Hunter Killer Group Dio 1984

RAN tribals were never bog standard RN grey during the war. After the war they were standard RN light grey. In 1943 warramunga was assigned to task force 74 (USN) operating out of Queensland, along with HMAS Hobart both were painted in the USN overall blue. Blue on vertical and horizontal surfaces. While assigned to the task force with which she remained until the end of the war her pennant number was D10 (destroyer 10) hobart for example was C3 or (cruiser 3) that's what's in the photo you have above from the australian war memorial. HMAS Bataan another australian tribal also had a USN designation D9 (Bataan never saw action during the war as when she was attached to task force 74 then in the Philippines, the war ended) while Arunta was D5 when attached to task force 74. Arunta for example during attachement to the US 7th fleet (most of her wartime career was spent attached to the 7th fleet) was D30 and later when attached to the british pacific fleet (BPF) she was I30. I44 was Warramunga's early war pennant number.

1/72 models of HMAS Hobart and HMAS Arunta sporting the USN blue with small USN style pennant numbers.






The dazzle pattern as hmas Arunta here in 1942
was applied during the early stages of the war during trials and just after being delivered.

Arunta was in two tone RN blue/grey while attached to the commonwealth occupational force after the war.


So depends which ship and when you want to build her. Also I'm early 1945 all orleikon's were replaced with single bofors. If you want her dazzle colours, a clubmate is building arunta as built in dazzle and can get the colours of him. Hope this helps.

_________________
AT
1/72 Arleigh Burke flight iia
1/72 Hobart class AWD HMAS Brisbane
http://www.shipmodels.info/mws_forum/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=154767
1/72 Friesland
1/75 Wasa
1/53 STS Leeuwin II
1/72 HMAS Perth 1942
1/72 Russian Corvette Steregushchy