The Ship Model Forum

Yes, the kit has the correct main turrets: Type B2 for #1 mount and (2) Type B1 for #s 2 and 3 mounts. The Type B2 has round ventilation port covers, the Type B1 has horizontal oval shaped covers, on the sides of the turret.

The Amagiri had an interesting midwar AA fit. She gained a twin 13mm in front of the bridge on a bandstand, as did all of the Fubukis (initially) and also two twin 25mm AA mounts on the platform in front of #2 funnel. Among the Fubukis, I believe only Usugumo also carried twin 25mms in this position. This all came to light recently when Gakken #70 was published as it included a reprint of her official midwar layout as sketched by a naval constructor (possibly Fukui himself). The kit is faithful to this new layout. No triple 25mm AA is mounted at this time.

As to whether or not she carried white ID striping on her funnels is open to debate. I believe she probably did. The photo below was taken during the November 1943 raid on Rabaul, where Amagiri's TROM registered both her presence and a near miss from a bomb. I believe that it is Amagiri, based on process of elimination. Not all my contacts concur but, my Japanese ones do. Now, this photo takes place several months after the PT-109 incident so, we can't be certain of her appearance at that time but.........no one can prove you wrong, either. There is one thin band around funnel #2.

Hey guys, dose anyone know if finemolds is planing to do some of there fubuki kits in 1/700 scale? If not is there any plans for any new fubuki 1/700 scaled kits?

You mean, aside from the new PitRoad kits?

Well yes .. As in like finemolds doing there own run of 1/700 scales ships.... And are pit roads fubiki class kits good? It seemed like with your fubuki builds you had to do quite abit kit bashing as well as using tamyia hulls. So I was wondering more or less some one was to come out with something more acurate/detailed ?

The Usugumo kitbash project utilized a Tamiya hull but my Fubuki DesDiv project ships were all PitRoad kits.

Are they good? Well, they are a vast improvement over the Tamiya kits, as any kit 30 years younger should be. They are not completely accurate for a wartime fit, and I address how to correct those issues in both the Fubuki DesDiv build thead as well as the CASF Fubuki thread. It all depends on how far one wishes to go in correcting. Some other folks on MW are working on PitRoad Fubuki's - perhaps they will chime in with their own opinions.

These kits are excellent for an as-originally built model. See Jeff Lin's as-built Ushio in the gallery. He also has a build thread on it.

FineMolds has not made any noise about scaling down it's 1/350 line to 1/700 and I don't know that they will. It's hard to say whether there's enough of a market for a third 1/700 tooling.

Hi folks, I have a question for Dan regarding the Type I ships and Hatsuyuki specifically.

I'm currently building a model of the Hatsuyki over on Britmodeller, using this and Dan's build threads as a guide, and I'd like to know if she ever received the bandstand forward of the bridge?

I'd also like some advice on the funnel caps regarding the shape of the "grills" on top. I'm trying to replicate the general shape of the struts and I'm having some difficulty deciphering what it is. Were they similar to what the Type II's had, i.e. a circular ring over a "star" arrangement? I hope that makes sense!

Lastly, is there anything in particular I need to know about Hatsuyuki - anything unique or unusual?

The build thread is here: http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=234914622

I'm not to happy with the rake of the forward funnel and they're both too high, so I think I'll have to pull them off and shorten them.

Mike.

Michael, I will do my best to answer you without confusing you I did try to access your build thread but have been getting the following error message: IPS Drive error. I'll keep trying. Worst case, perhaps you can post your thread on this site; certainly the finished kit is a must for our gallery.

Per her TROM, she did recieve the forward bandstand and a twin 13mm mount in late Decemeber, 1942. Even though it's not mentioned, a further upgrade to a twin 25mm mount remains a possibility, given the timing of subsequent yard visits: http://www.combinedfleet.com/hatsuy_t.htm

Type I funnel grill shapes. I'm going to have to check some references at home as I'm not sure if the grillwork is the same as the later types. The only wartime photo that comes close to showing us the arrangement for the Type Is is the photo of Shirayuki at the Bismarck Sea but, the openings seem obscured by smoke.

Can't comment on their rake as of yet until I get visuals

I'm not sure which kit you're using but keep in mind that Hatsuyuki does have the long forecastle so. I hope it's A PitRoad Type II hull, and not a Tamiya hull.

Incidentally, your name seems very familiar to me.......

I do have a tendency to appear, ask a question, then dissappear again!

Don't worry about confusing me - I feel like I'm semi confused half the time anyway!

I'm a bit stumped as to why the link isn't working, but the interwebs can be a fickle beast at times....!

I've started a WIP thread over on Picture Post showing what I've done so far:
http://www.shipmodels.info/mws_forum/viewtopic.php?f=59&t=101803

Thanks for the info on the bandstand , I did suspect that she may have been fitted with it prior to her loss, but wasn't sure.

It's actually the grillwork that's been annoying me, once I've got the configeration down, I should be able to replicate the general shape in plastic. I hope.......

Mike.

I'm gonna post some answers here, then cruise on over to your build log.

After reviewing Gakken # 70, I can confirm the addition of a twin 13mm mount up front on a bandstand. She never received a subsequent upgrade to a twin 25mm in this position. Interestingly, all the Type Is did start the war with a single 13mm twin on a platform in front of funnel #2, then had the platform widened to accomadate two twin 13mms, as we see in the Shirayuki photo at the Bismarck Sea. So, Hatsuyuki will have this change as well for a 1943 fit.

Funnel grills, while there is no clear photo of the Type I grills after the final changes to their funnels, I am 99.9% sure that they carry the same star/circle arrangement as other IJN DDs. Certainly, all the proceeding DD types, and the group II Fubukis, do after changes to their funnels, so I see no reason why the type Is would differ.

Funnel rake - here is a previously unpublished photo of Type I Murakumo in 1939 from Gakken #70. This is the configuration and fit of all the Type I Fubukis upon entry to the war, less the writing on the hull sides, plus the addition of a degaussing cable. The angle and height are as good a guide as you'll get.

Thanks for the advice and your comments over in the build thread, Dan, they're greatly appreciated!

I've played around with one of the images of the Shirayuki in the graphics program I use. I altered the brightness and contrast and you can just make out the form of the grill on the second funnel and it certainly looks like the star/circle shape, but it's very, very faint.

Another thing that's just occured to me, did Hatsuyuki have any stripes on her funnels late '42-'43? I've always been a bit puzzled as to whether or not the IJN completely did away with them during the war as I've seen a few late war models depicted with them?

Mike.

It's more the lack of photos. There's ample evidence that most DDs wore funnel striping most of the time thruout the war. The photo of Shirayuki, 1943 shows two stripes, and remember that she was a divison mate of Hatsuyuki.

I'll post another photo a little later today.

Hatsuyuki's & division mate Fubuki accompanied cruisers Aoba, Kinugasa and Furataka at Cape Esperance in October, 1942. This photo of one of the DDs was taken on the eve of battle from Aoba. A closeup shows her to be wearing 2 funnel bands on #2 funnel, much like Shirayuki 5 months later. I can't remember my reasoning at the time but, I've labeled her as probably Hatsuyuki.

Thanks again, Dan!

Mike.

I have a question for Dan, if I may.

I have the Fine Molds 1/350 Amagiri and Shikinami kits, but I don't want two that look almost the same. Based on your knowledge of the class, but without doing too much digging, do you think it would be feasible to convert the Shikinami into one of the Akatsuki class? If all it entails is the forward funnel and bridge, I might take a shot and I can make copies of the parts available in case anyone else is interested. Thanks for your time.

Mike

I'm actually surprised that FineMolds hasn't stretched it's line into the Type Is or IIIs as of yet. Seems so inevitable to me.

Sounds like a great project, Mike. OK, so what would it take to convert their current Ayanami/Shikanami kit into a Type III? Let see:

1) Bridge - yes , it can be done. Note, though, that the bridge base has to be extended back almost to the forecastle break (when viewed from above). I'll repost a shot that shows this aspect, as well as a nice Gran Prix Shuppan illustration that can help, along with a photo of Ikazuchi's bridge facing that is similar to the one of Hibiki.

2) Forefunnel - This will have to be completely fabricated as new. In cross-section, it will be completed round, which should simplify things, as is the lack of a rake to the funnel cap. Keep in mind that this funnel must be the same height as funnel #2 and that both funnels will be a little lower in height than those for Ayanami/Shikanami. Nice new photo below posted recently by Bill Somerville over on the J-ships board.

3) Air Intakes at the base of the funnels - These must be swept up in back instead of wrapping around straight across. Another view of Ikazuchi from astern below that shows this aspect nicely.

4) RDF compartment - the base between the front of this compartment and funnel #2 was lengthened slightly to make room for two 13mm mounts. You can make this out in the diagram and Inazuma cropping below.

I think it's all achievable. You might want to investigate using a 3D printer for the new parts. If it works, a conversion kit would be a nice offering. The new air intakes could also be used to modify the Ayanami/Shikanami kit into one of the Type II b ships - Akebono, Oboro, Sazanami or Ushio.

Please keep us apprised of your progress, Mike.

A correction - to make room aft of #2 funnel for the 13mm mounts, I think they moved the whole seachlight tower and RDF compartment back slightly.

Thanks, Dan. I have the five Grand Prix books, the Mechanism of Japanese Destroyers book, as well as over 100 of the Maru Naval Specials and some other assorted references to dig into. Based on your level of expertise that I've seen in the forum here, I was counting on you to let me know what to look for in case there were any major hurdles to overcome. You saved me a lot of time with searching and comparing, so your assistance is much appreciated.

I'm happy to help, Mike, anytime. Don't hesitate to ask. The only other reference I might recommend for this project is the KMM volume on IJN DDs, published by Diamond-Sha. Best large format photographic reference around.

It looks like it will be a bit more complex than I thought. I found plan and profile views in Model Art #25 and did an overlay using drawings of Inazumi (Type III- 1936) and Sazanami (Type II- 1936). Apparently, the aft funnel and #1 torpedo tube mount were moved forward to make room for the 13mm gun platform (or because of the different machinery arrangement, or both). It also appears that the aft funnel was shortened between the line of the funnel cap and the second row of horizontal grab bars. It's a little difficult to see from the image because the waterlines of the different layers are not quite parallel.



This will change the footprint of the midship structures on the Fine Molds deck (same for the bridge), so it's going to take extra work to get the new parts to blend with the existing plastic parts. I suppose the only sure fire way to get Fine Molds to do one of the Akatsuki class is to go ahead and start scratch building.

That's a very smart juxtaposition of images, Mike. I suppose the good news is that the FM kits have molded all the funnel housings and superimposed structures separately from the main deck. In looking over the instruction sheets, you'll have to alter the base of #1 funnel by cutting and shortening/reshaping parts D32/33, then moving the #1 TT mount up a bit. Then, adding an insert aft of funnel base #2 for parts D29/30 for the new AA positions.

Attached is a nice silhouette of Ikazuchi that helps outline this area. Also another close-up view of the proximity of the aft end of the bridge the #1 funnel (ignore the red outline - from another discussion).