The Ship Model Forum

P.S. Thank Dan k for the photo posts! And yes I too can see the reasoning behind your theory it does make scene...but sadly I guess we will never know for sure unless there is any primary documentations of such a modification that existed somewhere that has yet to be uncovered or hopefully a photo …..and sadder yet no survivors to ask such a question

thnaks a lot for reply guys

sorry i'm french and my english is poor and i'm not sure to well understand : do you tell me i can use Lion Roar kagero PE set for Hasegawa with the tamyia kit ?

My surmame is Dominique .... Dom

Well, there is a mystery DD photo taken off Brunei in late 1944 that looks like a late war Kagero, except for its bridge. I'll have to address this at a later date.

Redoctober27 veut dire que le kit de Tamiya est plus meilleur - alors, vous pouvez utiliser le Lionroar PE sans vous inquieter si l'Hasegawa kit peut utiliser le Lionroar PE.

Aussi, Dan K a dit que l'Hasegawa kit est "overscale" (plus grand), est alors je pense que le Lionroar PE (qui etait fait pour le Tamiya kit) est tros petite pour l'Hasegawa.

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To guest: Ah I see mine is Dominic < the italian way

Dan k: Most intriguing you defiantly need to post a pic! Is it perhaps from the kagero Gakken book?

I'll say up front that I think the mystery ship declaration a bit of a red herring but, you can decide for yourself.

Background: October, 1944 off Brunei, prior to the sortie for Leyte Gulf. Lt. Shiraishi Tohei on Isokaze took 10-20 photos of various IJN ships gathered at the anchorage. Several are of Isokaze and have been posted earlier in this thread. Others include some familiar, though grainy, photos of Yamato, Mogami, Chokai, and Nagato, among others. (The film lay forgotten in the camera until 4 years after the war. Some film degradation took place.)

Among the ships are CL Yahagi, flag for DesRon 10 and her six direct reports: DesDiv 2's Kiyoshimo (Yugumo class), DesDiv 4's Nowaki (Kagero class) and DesDiv 17's Urakaze, Yukikaze, Hamakaze and Isokaze (all Kagero class). The photo below (divided into two parts) shows several of the DDs, including one in the middle that some think is Nowaki.

On the right, is another DD that for all intents and purposes, appears to be another Kagero type. However, some folks think the bridge too streamlined and angled for a Kagero and better matches a Yugumo, hence the start of a lot of head scratching. Particularly if, as some believe, the photo was mis-stated and was taken earlier, perhaps off Lingga or Tawi Tawi, amongst other ships.

It's not Kiyoshima - her cupola atop the director is much larger, and she carried the additional 25mm AA around funnel #1 , typical of late war Yugumos. Nor is it, as some others believed, Naganami, as she was subsequently identified with a new, larger cupola and the additional 25mm AA & bandstands around funnel #1.

So, setting aside that the mystery is probably due to just the angle of the photograph and some equipment at the base of the bridge altering the silhouette, what ship could possibly be mostly Kagero, part Yugumo? A rebuilt Shiranui?

Dan,
thanks for the photos, they are really GREAT - and the story about the "mysterious" DD sounds very interesting (and not much unlikely...)!
Vladi

WoW!!!!!!!!!!!!!! thanks for the post Dan..man what a photo album and film to see!!!.... well first thing that comes to my mind is since it is a black and white photo and of poor quality could is be just a thing its just the front end of a life boat just coming into view.... (since at this time DDs still retained there forward life boats unlike that we see come during 1945 like in Op Ten-Go).... are there any records of ships being at Brunei that didn't leave with the main fleet? also upon looking at the pictures and seeing that there is a lot of moment taking place could it be a ship from another division that is of a Yugumo class (Like AKISHIMO or HAYASHIMO of whom I believe were at Brunei at this time )or perhaps left behind to do escort duty elsewhere?

Did the IJN Destroyers at Ten-Go not have their forward life boats? How about at other times?

The 7m cutters at the rear of the forecastle were removed by the time of the Ten-Ichi-Go sortie, probably for all the remaining DDs to make way for additional single 25mm mounts.

However, as the Isokaze photos of October, 1944, show, some, if not all the ships, retained the cutters up to that point. Remember, the cutters can be stowed on deck as well as up in the davits. I posted this photo back on p.2 but will repost here. Clearly, Isokaze's cutters are in place.

Dan are you sure (well to the best of your knowlege ) that this unkown destroyer couldn't be any of the two Yugumo class DDs I meantioned above? Also on a sidenote do you know of any good books on the Yugumo class destroyers?

The Kagero's had the type-C mountings with 55 degree elevation. The Yugumo's had the type-D, with 75 degrees elevation, making them more valuable for AA purposes. As a result, Yugumo's rarely (if ever?) removed the #2 5" mounting to enhance the light AA. However, it has not yet been proven whether ALL Yugumo's retained #2 mounting. So, the mystery is, are we looking at a Kagero with a modified bridge (speculated, but not proven for Shiranuhi) or is this the first proof of a Yugumo with #2 mounting removed? Option 3 is that this is a "standard" Kagero, and the appearance of the bridge is an optical illusion.

I am personally leaning to your option 1 and 3. Dick j I know the type D turrets were more valuable for AA porupuses but
I personally believe that none of the yugumo's had there turrets removed due too that if the 25mm triples were more valuable than turrets, I think were would have seen this reflected in pictures of Asashimo during her sinking on ten-go.

Speaking about IJN destroyer main guns - did anyone come across brass barrells for 5inch/50 caliber in 1/700? Seems that everyone sells 5inch/40 (like http://master-model.pl/index.php?page=shop.product_details&flypage=garden_flypage.tpl&product_id=91&category_id=4&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=56&lang=en) but I did not find any for 50 caliber.
What would you think about using 5"/40 brass for the 5"/50? Most destroyers had blast bags so that should compensate for the extra lenght needed.

Following up on Dick's response, and as I think I noted in the original portion of my posting, all the Yugumos eventually carried additional sets of triple 25mm AA on raised platforms to either side of #1 funnel as the Yugumos had improved stability margins over the Kageros. The ship in the photo does not.

I believe PitRoad, FineMolds, Clipper and someone else makes the 12.7cm50cal barrels in 1/700.

Thank you, Dan. I noticed PitRoad was producing them in the past (at least boxed them in their special editions of destroyers) but seems these may be out of production now. I will have a look for the others.

Also Rainbow.

Hey guys.. So I have begain to work on the first of my kageros and it seems that I have ran into a bit of a spot of bad luck... I'm using the new fujimi kit and while working on the bridge I ran into a slew of problems.. It would seem that the PE kits from Ociane spirt and even the photo etch set from lionroar seemed to be identical pieces when it comes to bridge windows. Both window sets are too large for the bridge and can't be cut back evenly. Has anyone else run into this problem with fujimi's kajiro destoyers bridge sets?

I don't have either PE set but I'm guessing, after looking at the Fujimi kit in the box, that the front portion of the bridge windows are too large for the aperture. This is because the Fujimi kit is attempting to replicate the narrowing of the windows in this area as they are partially covered by the rise of the added armor plating in front. (see Isokaze pic on p3 of this thread, vs. the more normal appearnace of Yukikaze's bridge postwar on PP2 &3.)

If this is the case, I'd just shave down the plastic at the front..

Any pictures of à Kagero in high seas? I would really like to one in a really articulated setting.

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/Magnus