The Ship Model Forum

Barry,

I lacked a photo of Ellyson (DD-454) during Operation Torch ... well now I do. I have been at NARA this week and found a group of photos taken during Operation Torch. I thought that all the destroyers for this operation had been repainted in Ms 22 ... but this photo proves otherwise. Oh, and no I don't have an image of the portside.

Hi Rick. Thanks! I found a small port side picture from what might be about the same time here:



I've been using this and the starboard side picture in Steve Wiper's book as the basis for the camouflage scheme on my model - which is 85% done!

Barry

Lansdowne life raft configuration. OK I am putting all the bits together now, but am stuck on how the aft life rafts are attached, the ones just aft of the searchlight platform in what is a gap between the superstuctures. The pictures of Lansdowne show there are two on each side one horizontal and one on top. It looks like lattice work, but is there something in this gap after late 1942? The pics of her on shakedown look nearly identical to Buchanan in the stowage of rafts, but then they end up quite different when she is seen at Mare island in spring of '43!

Thanks

Rob

Any new photos of the Livermore?

_________________
Timothy Dike
Owner & Administrator
ModelWarships.com

Tim,

Sorry .. the short answer is that I didn't find any new photos of Livermore on this trip. One of my search areas this trip was to look through "Operation Torch" photos. I didn't get through all the boxes that were listed in the card catalog. The card catalog didn't list Livermore as a subject in this group ... BUT there were several Destroyers that I found that were NOT identified in the card catalog. Here are images of other Benson-Gleaves destroyers I found plus one of Benson that was in the background of a September 1942 photo and she had repainted to Ms 22. I don't really trust the specific dates given expect for Benson. I have a slug of other photos of ships that would be in this operation just out of the yard in September-October 1942 freshly painted in Ms 22. I suspect, whether a ship got repainted would depend on whether she had a yard period and/or enough time for a paint job. There were many destroyers in the background of large group shots of ships in the convoy that were not identified or identifiable ... and most if not all were all in Ms 22 ... except for Ellyson and a Flushdecker or two. But there were over two dozen Benson-Gleaves assigned to this operation.

Woolsey (DD-437) unidentified in a Casablanca harbor photo dated as 13 November 1942


Swanson (DD-443) in the convoy heading to North Africa


Hambleton (DD-455) off Africa, dated as 11 November 1942


Rodman (DD-456) as in convoy, nice close-up view of the bow showing what look like plated portholes.


Benson (DD-421) at New York Navy Yard on 16 September 1942

Rob,

I don't know for sure how the life rafts on Lansdowne were configured in late 1942. Here is a close-up view of Lansdowne in April 1943 when she got her twin 40-mm mounts and it appears that they reconfigured the mounting of the life rafts at that time (this was also when the two forward most of the K-guns were removed ... one port, one starboard). Also, here is a close-up image of the same area on Duncan in October 1942 ... may give you hints on how the life rafts were mounted on a sister ship in the same unit. Compare to the Buchanan in August 1943 and it looks like the life raft locations didn't change ... much.


Lansdowne (DD-486) on 13 April 1943


Duncan (DD-485) on 7 October 1942


Buchanan (DD-484) on 24 August 1943

Just a comment - that photo of USS Swanson is one of the best I've seen showing how beautiful these ships could be underway.

Thanks it looks lamost like the angle of the photo is causinng some of my problems,
Rob

Most paints seem to come in a 1/2 oz size bottle. In order to paint one the USS Buchanan (Dragon release) in a MS21 scheme, how much paint should be needed? Would one bottle of Navy Blue (5-N) and one bottle of deck blue (20B) be adequate? Would one bottle of the deck blue be enough for two destroyers?

I need to determine how much paint I can expect to need to cover the projects I am planning for the next year.

Depending on how you apply it, 1/2 ounce bottle is more than enough for one destroyer and probably a second. I have used the same bottle for both my Buchanan and my Laffey and there is still plenty in the bottle. I apply it mostly by airbrush with brush touchup.

Matt

_________________
In the yards right now:
USS Utah AG-16
On Hold
1/350 USS Portland CA-33 1942
1/350 Trumpeter Texas with a twist

I had the same experience as Matt. I used Polly Scale acrylic paint and have plenty of deck blue left after painting the deck of my Ellyson model (using the DML Buchanan). Barry

Matt/Barry,

Thank you for your posts. Will make it easier when ordering paint.

Barry,

I noticed you said you have used Polly Scale Acrylics. If you needed it, what color did you use for Sea Blue (5-S)? I was thinking of mixing white and 5-N. If Polly Scale has something closer I will use that.

What are the visual differences between a 5" 38 cal 'single knuckle' and 'double knuckle' housing? Any good WEB sites that have pictures or drawings?

Sixman - As far as I know Polly Scale doesn't have a 5-S. I used 5-N straight from the bottle, but then I'm somewhat "color-challenged." Barry

Barry,

Thanks. It looks to me that 5-S was a sligtht bit lighter than 5-N, so I will mix white and 5-N and come up with a 'passable' 5-S color. Since the S&S color chip set shows 3 different chips for 5-S, I should be able to get close enough.

Speaking or mixing colors, the S&S WEB site states their 'never dry paint bottles' are not available. Anyone have suggestions on others choices to use?

Here is a comparison of the two.


Note; not all lower mounts had the rivets.

_________________
Timothy Dike
Owner & Administrator
ModelWarships.com

For the mounts that had the double knuckle, were the two sections of the double knuckle set at slightly different angles? From the drawing it looks like there are four planes (the front, the two knuckles, and the top) as opposed to three planes (front, knuckle, and top) on the single knuckle mount.

Yes, those panels angle up at about 2 degrees on each side from the original plane. It is very slight and it hard to see on a mount. But it is there.

_________________
Timothy Dike
Owner & Administrator
ModelWarships.com

I posted this image on the Fletcher fans forum. However, the 5-in mounts were basically the same. This is the Abbot (DD-629) after a little fender-bender, that shows the welded versions of the gun houses. In many photos it is hard to see the double knuckle, but the lighting in this Pearl Harbor photo is just right.

In regards to the paint question above, Keep in mind that when using out of the bottle colors they are really only good as a general guide. I can tell you after 22 years in the Navy, grey, hull grey haze grey whatever they call it I'm an airdale so it's all just grey to me, looks remarkably different one ship to the next. Similar, but after sea time and a touch up here a yard period there.. you get my point. I used some color pics from an old national geographic and mixed my own starting with the Model Master paints as a base.

Rob