The Ship Model Forum

Sebastien,

Boy you pick a hard location. That area of the water-break bulwarks is really hard to find a good view of in a photo, the angle has to be "JUST RIGHT" and that is assuming the boat isn't there in the way. Or there needs to be an onboard view taken in that area for some reason. Here is the best image I could find. It isn't the Buchanan, but an early Gleaves unit, Grayson (DD-435), and the photo was taken when she had a non-standard nine 20-mm configuration. I have no idea if this area varied from ship to ship. Equipment stored along there likely did vary. I hope you can pick out the detail you want.

As for your question on the shaft and struts, go to page 13 in this thread for CAD drawings that Tim Dike posted to answer this similar question before and I posted some photos of Fletcher class destroyer struts to show the "typical" shape of these. As a matter of fact, it may help you to page through all the pages and look at the images posted for other detailed views of the class ... they may be of use in your build. Several images are specific to Buchanan.

Posted over at Shipspotting.com is a picture of Ex-USS Plunkett in the Taiwanese Navy taken in 1974. a good 30 plus years after she was commissioned. http://www.shipspotting.com/modules/myalbum/photo.php?lid=927240

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Charles Landrum
USNA 1983
Norfolk, Virginia

Yes another great photo taken by a guy named John Kent in in my local Fremantle harbour normally he gets them coming and going, so there may be other shots of this ship turn up later. Interesting to see that she had what looks like a SPS6 radar fitted to her formast .

Graham Murdoch

Hi.
First, thank you to Mr Davis for his photo.
I can not open the link in Mr Landrum. Also, if someone could send me the photos on this site by email, I shall be grateful to him.
Regarding the information I was looking, I followed the advice of Mr Steve Wiper, and I looked at the photos on Navsource.
I found a very good pictures of the shaft bracket plams of the USS Forrest. After analysis, I think the shaft bracket plams of the Benson and Gleaves classes are different from those of the Fletcher class, which resemble those of Sumner and Gearing Class.
For breakwaters, I am always looking informations.
Kind regards
Sebastien Lausdat
France

PS: Sorry for my poor English.

dont know if this was posted in here yet, but just came across this gleaves while browsing fletchers. awesome collection of photos here:

http://www.navsource.org/archives/05/441.htm

DMS (Destroyer Mine Sweeper) conversion.

Well, I went over all 25 pages and a DMS conversion has not yet appeared. I had thought that the Cain Mutiny movie would have inspired someone by this time!!! Maybe the Dragon kit is so good no one wants to hack it up.

First a request. If anyone has close up pictures of the stern area (mine sweeping gear) I would be grateful, resources are slim. Wiper #12 has some good overviews, Navsource nothing better and the Destroyer Page only yielded two good photos. I did much better with my flush decker conversions, Glen Arnold's "Flush Deck Destroyers in WWII" had close up pictures and PLANS.

A little history about these ships. DMS 1-18 were converted WWI flush deckers. The aft boiler and stack were removed and sweeping gear added. Herman Wouk served on DMS 10 and 14 and these are the ships that was the model for the fictional USS Caine DMS-22. In 1944 DMS 19 to 30 were converted from Gleaves DDs. In 1945 there were more Gleaves conversions, DMS 31 to 42 (the second group can be identified by quad 40mm vs twin 40mm on the aft deckhouse). A Gleaves conversion was used in the movie because by the early 1950's the flush deckers were long gone.

The best kit to do the conversion is the 1945 Buchanan, unfortunately I bought the 1942 Buchanan first and have to do more mods. I plan to do the actual DMS-22, USS Emmons, which was lost at Okinawa. Per the Snyder & Short camo page, she was in measure 22 during 1944.

I have written a list of modifications (the count is now at 20 and I am still finding things). If anyone wants it, I will type it out here.

Jim

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jim

aux viewtopic.php?f=59&t=40896

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I would like to see your list. I too would like to model Emmons.

Thanks,

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Andrew P, PBFHS
Chesapeake, Virginia
www.PBFHS.org

I'd like to see the list as well. I will be modeling Ellyson (DMS-19).

The HNSA website has a page with booklets of general plans - http://hnsa.org/doc/plans/

Here is the link to USS Davison DD 618 in her 1958 DMS configuration including sweep gear - http://www.hnsa.org/doc/plans/dd618.pdf

Also there is a plan for USS Nields DD-616 in her 1942 configuration - http://hnsa.org/doc/plans/dd616.pdf

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Charles Landrum
USNA 1983
Norfolk, Virginia

Charles, thanks for the link to the plans, I keep forgetting to use this resource. Even though they are small, they are good enough for sizes and locations of the major components of the sweeping gear. The plans are dated 1958 so I would be cautious of changes of small ship details if you are doing a 1944 or 1945 ship.

Andrew and PHDnotsharp, give me a few weeks and I will do the list. I will by then have all the parts at least roughed out and the photos will save a lot of verbiage. I am still hoping for a good, close photo of the stern. The flush deck conversions had an elaborate set of roller chocks at the extreme stern and I still do not know what the Gleaves conversions had. At the worst I will do a variation of the flush deck set up.

Jim

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jim

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Converting a 1942 or 1945 1/350 Dragon Buchanan to a late 1944 DMS (DMS-19 to 30). The directions start forward and go aft.

1..(42) Add a third 20mm forward of bridge on the center-line one level up from the P&S mounts. This mount was common on many Gleaves.

2..(42 & 45) Top of pilot house forward of 5" director, part E9. This looks (a guess) to me to be a torpedo director and is therefore redundant. Photos of DMS conversions show something there but it is always under canvas. As a guess I will add a very nice Paper LAB 24" searchlight. The aft pilot house roof and the bridge are pure guess, I would delete the 20mm's on the 45 bridge.

3..(42 & 45) Do not mount torpedo tubes, remove mounting ring. I used a curved x-acto blade, wiggled it inwards, and did not mess up the diamond plate. Covered the damage with a .20" dia x .004" plastic disc (get an ordinary page protector, cut off long edges to get two separate pieces, paint with can spray primer - great for thin, flat covers).

4..(both) Do not mount torpedo crane, fill hole.

5B..(both) Do not mount large searchlight (K39) and stand. Cover hole.

5..(both) DMS pictures show a small mushroom vent forward of aft funnel. Shown on DMS-37 plans. Use these plans with caution, they show a 1958 ship. Great for sweeping gear size and location, I would be leery of bridge details.

6..(42) Modify two forward (P&S) K-guns to mid-war style.

7..(both) Do not mount four aft K-guns, fill holes.

8..(42) Aft deck-house, add two twin 40mm in the 1.1" and 20mm position. Add a .10" x .48" curved brass splinter shield extension for the port gun position. Make two elevated director tubs, these have to be mounted inboard of the directors on the model. There will be a hole/diamond plate problem to solve.

All mods aft of this point apply to 42 and 45. Sizes and locations can be obtained from DMS-37 plans

9..Do not mount aft 5" gun, fill large hole.

10..Large magnetic cable winch.

11..Medium cable winch.

12..Do not mount aft center-line bitt. Fill hole.

13..Remove/blend pads for depth charge racks and smoke generators. Do not mount smoke generators. Cut off one segment of depth charge racks and mount on a diagonal - loading end on ship - discharge end off of ship and in line with aft end of prop guard.

14..Make at least three "biplane" paravanes (these were present on all DMS conversions - my guess is they were needed to support the heavy electromagnetic cable). Teardrop body .07" dia x .30" long. Wings can be made from a .08" x .68" brass strip, folded to a .08 x .26 x .08 x .26 rectangle.

15..Make two paravane cranes.

16..Make or steal some conventional paravanes. Stored as spares.

There is NO guarantee of acuracy! If you find a mistake, let me know and I will fix it. GOOD LUCK.

Jim

Guest above is me (jimrussell), the post was long and apparently there is a time limit. the funny thing is that the system times you out, gives you an opportunity to log in again, but refuses your name because you are already logged in ??? CATCH 22!!!

I cannot edit the above post so any corrections will be done here.

17.. The DMS-1 to 17 group had an elaborate set of roller chocks at the stern. I assume the Gleaves conversions had something similar but I have not found a good picture. DMS-2 on Navsource has a very good picture.

18..There is a long roller mounted transverse to the ships axis, right over the medium cable winch. My guess is to allow free passage of the electromagnetic cable over the medium cable winch (not in the pictures, I forgot about it).

Jim

Edit, done September 19. More at viewtopic.php?f=59&t=40896&start=30

Jim

_________________
jim

aux viewtopic.php?f=59&t=40896

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Jim,

I only have images of one DMS conversion that I came across at NARA on my last trip there in June. I have not gone into the BuShips photos for the DMS conversions yet. Here is a series of shots of Harding, a Square-Bridge Gleaves conversion ... each of the two images I scanned followed by a close-up of the fantail area. But, I would think the stern area would be the same or similar for all DMS units.

I would not be surprised that there were many differences forward of 53 mount on the different DMS conversions, depending on the yard that did the conversion work. The first conversions (1944; DMS-19 through 30, with DMS-26 further modified to the anti-kamikaze mod) kept the standard destroyer AA armament of four 40-mm and seven 20-mm guns (three forward of the bridge, two in the bridge wings {on round-bridge units, none on square-bridge units}, and two amidships {on round-bridge units, and four amidships on square-bridge units} ), the units completed/modified to the DMS Anti-Kamikaze mod with quad 40-mm mounts (1945; DMS-26, 31-42), had two twin 20-mm mounts forward of the bridge and were suppose to have two single 20-mm mounts, but I'm not sure if they mounted them as found on the Benson-Gleaves destroyer anti-kamikaze versions (they mounted them on the main deck amidships, but photos in Wipers book doesn't show any there for the DMS conversions, but there are "something" covered by canvas in the bridge wings in the location where single 20-mm guns were mounted on round-bridge units?).

Rick,

Thanks for your help.


Jim

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jim

aux viewtopic.php?f=59&t=40896

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Found this in the life archives. It is in the Brooklyn Navy Yard - I believe that it is USS Grayson DD-435

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Charles Landrum
USNA 1983
Norfolk, Virginia

Charles,

I think it is Hambleton (DD-455), the cut away 02 deck level bridge deckhouse (level below the navigation bridge) is a dead give away. This photo was likely taken some time from completion in late January to September-October 1942. She repainted to Ms 22 for Operation Torch.

Rick

Hello,

I am starting build of USS Livermore DD-429 from Dragon Smart-Kit set and after a good search in the Internet I cannot find any photos of her in 1942 MS12mod guise. Has anybody seen such photos? I think, there have to be some – Dragon has produced a nice painting guide in the kit – the question is where to find it?

TIA

Regards,
donalyah00

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Best regards,
Marek

http://www.modelshipgallery.com/gallery/users/Marek-Targowicz/user-index.html

I am not understanding... did your kit not come with the paint guide?

_________________
Tracy White -Researcher@Large

"Let the evidence guide the research. Do not have a preconceived agenda which will only distort the result."
-Barbara Tuchman

Please excuse me, the correct question sounds: where to find them (photos)? The kit has the paint guide with nicely reproduced camouflage scheme, but I cannot find any photos of USS Livermore to confirm it (and to look for some additional details).

Regards,
donalyah00

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Best regards,
Marek

http://www.modelshipgallery.com/gallery/users/Marek-Targowicz/user-index.html

If no one knows of a book (I'm not near mine) then your best bet is unfortunately going to be the US National Archives.
The Classic Warships book might have a couple of photos...

_________________
Tracy White -Researcher@Large

"Let the evidence guide the research. Do not have a preconceived agenda which will only distort the result."
-Barbara Tuchman