The Ship Model Forum

Does anyone know exactly which 637s had the 302-foot "long-hull"? I ask because I was playing around with these Piping TAB drawings of the Richard B. Russell:

https://i.imgur.com/VHQ24c1.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/VHQ24c1.jpg

and after measuring the length of the submarine using the 31'8" hull diameter as a reference point, I found that the length of the submarine was about 292 feet, not 302 feet. Given the low resolution of the images, I wasn't able to nail down the length to inch precision, but I assume it would be the 292'3" of the "short-hull" Sturgeons.

Every reference I've seen said that all Sturgeons after SSN 678 had the long hull, but Navsource list has the L. Mendel Rivers and Russell at 292'3". Both were built at Newport News, and none of the other long hull 637s were built there, so I wonder if Newport News was building the final two 637s to the earlier design. What further confuses me is that the Rivers had the DDS in the 1990s, which I thought was only on the long-hull 637s because they had a bit extra space.

Any information would be greatly appreciated!

Jacob

_________________
Under Construction:
1/350 Typhoon
1/350 Skate
1/350 USS Nautilus
1/350 Tang
1/350 November
1/350 Hotel II
1/350 Alfa
1/350 George Washington
1/72 Type VIIC

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sturgeon-class_submarine

Wikipedia tells exactly which are the short and the long hulled Sturgeons.

The short hulled ones had a length of 292'3" (same as the long-hulled Permits) and the long hulled ones were 302'3", so exactly ten feet longer. I'm afraid that Navsource made an error in this case.

_________________
"I've heard there's a wicked war a-blazing, and the taste of war I know so very well
Even now I see the foreign flag a-raising, their guns on fire as we sail into hell"
Roger Whittaker +9/13/2023

Maarten,

I'm aware of what Wikipedia says and it's not a source I would trust for this sort of thing. The fact that the Pining TAB drawing for the Russell comes out to almost exactly 292 feet is pretty convincing to me. I was wondering if someone had authoritative information either way. Maybe I should contact Navsource to see where their figures came from.

Jacob

_________________
Under Construction:
1/350 Typhoon
1/350 Skate
1/350 USS Nautilus
1/350 Tang
1/350 November
1/350 Hotel II
1/350 Alfa
1/350 George Washington
1/72 Type VIIC

While Navsource can be wrong, Wikipedia is even more wrong. 637 long hull are long forward to fit BQQ-5 instead of BQQ-2 sonar suite. This caused the ten foot extension of the ship. All boats after 678 were long hull.

_________________
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Junior Nuke Officer (me) : “Captain, don’t we really want to be like Monty Python and ‘Not be seen’?”
CO “You seem to be missing the big picture”
“Oh”

As far as I'm aware, the extra length was not for BQQ-5, which was developed specifically for the Los Angeles. The contract to develop BQQ-5 was awarded in late 1969, after the first long-hull 637 was laid down. It was backfitted to Permits and Sturgeons beginning in 1976. Friedman gives the reasons for the longer hull as more space for electronic surveillance equipment (i.e. ELINT and towed array equipment). It probably made for better crew accommodations too.

Jacob

_________________
Under Construction:
1/350 Typhoon
1/350 Skate
1/350 USS Nautilus
1/350 Tang
1/350 November
1/350 Hotel II
1/350 Alfa
1/350 George Washington
1/72 Type VIIC

Hi

Your discussion worries me. I am based on the Navsource data and I hope I did not make a mistake in my 1/350 Sturgeon build.

USS Sturgeon with a short hull
USS Archerfish with a long hull
USS Richard.B.Russell with a long hull base

All kits from Mikromir

Best regards

Pierre

I don't know why guest appears in this message

here is my kits :

_________________
In progress :
1/700 : CVN 68 USS Nimitz 2005 Trumpeter
1/350 : SSN 687 Richard B. Russell base Mikromir
1/350 : SSBN 626 Daniel Webster Mikromir

Superb!

_________________
Have fun, Monkey around.™

-Steve L.

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Nice collection - and always good to see the RBR (Aka: "The Moneymaker") being recognized. Her stint in DEVGROUPONE was short but productive. Great weathering too!

My only critique is one I see repeated ad nauseum, and that's the railroad tie "keel blocks" which are anything but. Keel blocks are square and built from concrete and wood, spaced at prescribed intervals for each class of boat and arranged in the drydock basin prior to flood-down. Google "Submarine drydock keel blocks" for a look that will sexy these boats up even more!

CCC

Here's an update to my previous post about the length of SSN 687. Based on the two Piping TAB drawing I posted previously and material I found at NARA, I confirmed these lengths for the Permits and Sturgeons (the frame spacing aft of the bow compartment and forward of the reactor compartment is 33"),

SSN 593-596, 604, 606-607, 612, 621 (Short Hull Permit)
52 frames between the bow and reactor compartment, numbered 1-52. LOA 278'6".

SSN 613-615 (Long Hull Permit)
57 frames between the bow and reactor compartment, numbered 1-46, 46A, 46B, 46C, 46D, 46E, 47-52. LOA 292'3".

SSN 637-639, 646-653, 660-670, 672-677 (Short Hull Sturgeon)
57 frames between bow and reactor compartment, numbered 1-57. LOA 292'3".

SSN 678-684, 686-687 (Long Hull Sturgeon)
60 frames between bow and reactor compartment, numbered 1-49, 49A, 49B, 49C, 50-57. LOA 300'6".

The reason I erroneously thought SSN 687 was only 292' long was that I assumed the other Piping TAB drawing was of a Short Hull Sturgeon, and when I compared them, they were exactly the same length. If I had paid closer attention to the frame numbers, I would have realized that they were both Long Hull Sturgeons.

Jacob

_________________
Under Construction:
1/350 Typhoon
1/350 Skate
1/350 USS Nautilus
1/350 Tang
1/350 November
1/350 Hotel II
1/350 Alfa
1/350 George Washington
1/72 Type VIIC

Thanks Jacob

Pierre

_________________
In progress :
1/700 : CVN 68 USS Nimitz 2005 Trumpeter
1/350 : SSN 687 Richard B. Russell base Mikromir
1/350 : SSBN 626 Daniel Webster Mikromir

While scrolling on the MikroMir Fa(r)cebook site to check out their upcoming Albacore kit, I found this much further down the page. The posting date is the end of last year, so I don’t know whether this is still planned as a kit or is vapourwear. If they release it, I’ll take 4, please. It would be an extremely popular kit, given the subject, probably a top 10 best seller.

They clearly studied Hal Sutton’s drawings of Parche at Covert Shores. I guess they were unaware that the later hull extension version did not have the external saturation diving chamber at the stern.

Of some interest to Sturgeon fans. Anyone else think it is ironic that a Russian company is modeling a Special Projects sub?

_________________
Tom Dougherty
Researcher for: "Project Azorian”
https://www.amazon.com/Azorian-Raising-K-129-Michael-White/dp/B008QTU7QY
"Project Azorian: The CIA and the Raising of the K-129" Book
https://www.usni.org/press/books/project-azorian

I love that they continue to put out 1/350 subs, but why not a JULIETT or ECHO or CHARLIE etc. If they drop a PARCHE, I'm sure it'll be a great seller, but how about YANKEE STRETCH or DELTA STRETCH I/II. Yes, I do want it all I'll keep buying what they put out anyway.

Cheers,

Dave

Don’ t know if you are interested in 1/350 resin, but all the Russian sub models (and more) you mentioned are available from an outfit in Severodvinsk, Russia, The company is Polar Bear Productions. He sells on eBay as subsmodels, at a decent discount. The prices range from $39-$69 (larger 1/350 submarine kits) and he offers shipping discounts on multiple kit buys.

Here’s a link to his eBay home
https://www.ebay.com/usr/subsmodels?_trksid=p2047675.l2559

Click on the “see all items” for kits available.

I have his Golf II and Hotel II kits. I can comment further if you you contact if are interested in the kits.

_________________
Tom Dougherty
Researcher for: "Project Azorian”
https://www.amazon.com/Azorian-Raising-K-129-Michael-White/dp/B008QTU7QY
"Project Azorian: The CIA and the Raising of the K-129" Book
https://www.usni.org/press/books/project-azorian

Tom,
I have the SIERRA II from Polar Bear. I'd just prefer something in plastic vice resin. I want to be able to open/raise missile tubes, etc.

Thanks for the recommendation though.

Cheers,

Dave

With Mikro Mir's imminent release of their USS Parche rendering my efforts essentially null (theirs will be vastly cheaper), I did this over a year ago; a USS Parche conversion utilizing the Mikro-Mir Sturgeon kit as the basis:

https://www.shapeways.com/product/9LF3F ... 0&li=shops

Rereading The Hunt For Red October for the 87th time, so I decided to do Pogy, and need a towed array. Cut a long hull upper down to match the short hull lower.

Nice work! Make sure you add the support struts to the towed array tube before you paint.

_________________
Under Construction:
1/350 Typhoon
1/350 Skate
1/350 USS Nautilus
1/350 Tang
1/350 November
1/350 Hotel II
1/350 Alfa
1/350 George Washington
1/72 Type VIIC

Indeed. Don't see how they missed them in the kit. They're pretty prominent.

Oh, always make sure the model is out of the toddler's reach.

Maybe I can interest you in getting a more realistic prop for your Sturgeon:
These screws are available from https://www.navalmodels.com/winkel/propeller-permit-trasher-sturgeon-class/
(And I see I need to add those braces on my model too - thanks for the update!)

_________________
"I've heard there's a wicked war a-blazing, and the taste of war I know so very well
Even now I see the foreign flag a-raising, their guns on fire as we sail into hell"
Roger Whittaker +9/13/2023