The Ship Model Forum

It would be very unlikely any of the USN PT-boats deployed outside of the development bases stateside would even have an experimental radar installed by December 1941. Even then it would more likely be an aircraft set from the British. In October 1941, the USN was still in the initial phases of developing SC and FD radars and refining the CXAM equipment to an upgraded CXAM-1 radar. (From a NorNY Ltr dated 16 October 1941)

The image you note on Navsource ... http://www.navsource.org/archives/12/120502701.jpg ... and labeled as PT-27, was NOT taken prior to late 1942, at the earliest. The first SO radars weren't even contracted until AUGUST 1942, and a prototype was delivered and installed on a PT at BosNY on 25 November 1942.

Further ... NO USN ships at Pearl Harbor had 20-mm guns installed. No USN ships in the Pacific Fleet had 20-mm guns on 7 December 1941. The first 20-mm guns installed on USN ships were on the east coast after the attack from the first batch of production 20-mm guns delivered. Further evidence that the referenced PT-27 image wasn't taken in early 1942, much less in December 1941. I couldn't find where in Silverstone's US WARSHIPS of WW2 this same image is located. Are you sure that is where you saw it? Be careful of dates on Navsource images. Many have wrong dates and this image says "ca. 1942", which is pretty broad.

Navsource, is a great resource, but many captions are in error. Having drilled on the DE Whitehust, looking at Navsource photos, arrival at Vancouver BC is clearly an arrival at Pier 91 in Seattle and a 1947 photo still shows her carrying torpedo tubes when she had the tubes removed in 1945 after refit at Pearl Harbor after Kamikaze damage at Kerma Reto and power cable spools installed.

The better we can snuggle up to primary sources the better.

I WILL REMOVE THE DOME IF IT WILL MAKE EVERYONE HAPPY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

My GOD has nobody ever heard of ARTISTIC INTEPERATION?

Also, I DO know that 20mm guns were not on PT BOATS at that time but I don"t have any 30 cal. MG's at this point in time. If it's such a problem for y'all I will remove them as well for the PUREST BUILDERS/MODELERS, now I did misspeak in regards to the photo, it is in Jane's Fighting ships if ww2, however in US WARSHIPS OF WW2 By Paul Silverstone, reference Pg.258 top of the page states Motor Torpedo Boats, leading off with PT-20 - PT-68, in the notes if plainly states PT-13-36 & PT-49-58 were transferred to the Royal Navy PT-59 - 68 were scheduled to go by were retained by the USN.

Gentlemen,
I am doing this project for myself, and it is a representation of Pearl Harbor, and I am trying to do what is a lifetime dream, ever since I stepped aboard the USS ARIZONA BB-39 Memorial and paid my respects to my fallen cousins and to the brave men who died there, I understand that everyone whats to be as accurate as possible with their builds and I applaud your efforts, I do try to be accurate with my work as well, I have done the research for this project since 1991 when I was at Pearl Harbor for the first time in my naval career, I spent countless hours going thru records at the Navy Yard Washington D.C. archives, I searched thru the archives at the Philadelphia Naval Shipyard and viewed builder prints, and countless other places for records of naval heritage, I am also a very, VERY seasoned genealogist and I know how to research and document sources, this is the most important part of the research. Now, with that being said I may not get every nut, bolt, rivet, or weld bead 100% accurate, but I will damn sure guarantee you that I will make this diorama the most PLEASING to me and my family, and friends. For the PUREST OF MODELERS, you are probably going to be pulling your hair out along the way, but at least I can say I did the very best I possibly could do.

Oh yeah if I use fiber optics and LED's for the lighting is this going to be an issue since they did not have fiber optics nor LED's during the attack on Pearl Harbor? Just want to know before I start wiring up the lighting for some of the buildings and piers, as well as the airfield on Ford Island like I did with my first (Modern Era) diorama build log here on Modelwarships, but under my old login: Jim Varnell ABH2USN, may want to check it out because I'm no rookie or newbie to modeling or to Modelwarships.com

Besides guys, I don't have a lot of time left and I have to work as fast as possible during my good days, and when this Parkinson's Dease allows me to,
not to mention the Early onset Dementia, no guys not going crazy but I am losing my mind, literally, short-term memory sucks, but long-term memory is working well.
Ok down off the soap box, and call it a night, cheers to everyone and I will have an update in a couple of days as I get further along with the DM's & the DMS's.

_________________
Jim Varnell
ABH2USN

"BATTLE STATIONS"

1/700 Scale PEARL HARBOR Complete Base Diorama
Every Ship and Vessel present on 7 December 1941
1/350 USS ALASKA CB-1 (75% COMPLETE)
1/350 USS TEXAS BB-35 (10% COMPLETE)

Jim:

We just do the best we can! For some items it's a learning process, at your scale a 30 BMG is unlikely to be visible without magnification. as to a certain individual, he is a pest with no visible project of his own and I blocked him. I'm in tune with later war developments and not so familiar with the pre war Navy (pre 8 AM, Dec 7). One issue that seemed to generate a lot of heat and less light was what color were the Battleships painted on that fateful morning? Enjoy your project.

The DMS Zane was there on Dec 7 and you can see my project in 1:144 over there in the Scratch building section. She of course wouldn't have had the Orlikons at the time nor the radar.

Best wishes: Tom

Jim:

There is also good information on the tug Nakomis which was there on Dec 7 by Pascal over in the scratch building section. He did a lovely model of it in 1:100 and 1:350.

Keep researching! Cheers: Tom

Jim,

Very interesting and ambitious project!! I salute you for your efforts!! Now, if I can figure out where Macclesfield, NC is, I'll be happy camper - I'm in Mocksville, NC so a fellow Tar Heel (well, not UNC tar heel ) !!

I would totally ignore the troll who seems to plague this forum with his so-called knowledge of everything nautical and do your best (as you previously stated) as you see fit. A fitting line might be "those who can, DO....while those who can't only complain about those who do". You can block his entries to your thread in the Control Panel. I've done so and don't worry about what he has to say whether it's good/bad/ugly, etc.

I'm amazed at the modelers who can produce a complete diorama which requires so much more research than simply for one ship - so, whatever you come up with knowing your prior abilities for accuracy, I think will be a worthwhile endeavor. Ignore the PITA from the north!

Hank

_________________
HMS III
Mocksville, NC
BB62 vet 68-69

Builder's yard:
USS STODDARD (DD-566) 66-68 1:144, Various Lg Scale FC Directors
Finished:
USS NEW JERSEY (BB-62) 67-69 1:200
USN Sloop/Ship PEACOCK (1813) 1:48
ROYAL CAROLINE (1748) 1:47
AVS (1768) 1:48

Tom,
Thank you, I will check out your DMS-14 USS ZANE, I actually will be casting the basic hull foundation for the Zane and the other 3 DMSs as well as the 2 AVDs that were originally Wickes / Clements Classes. I am in the process of referencing photos of the DMs and making my list of alterations that are required to convert them from DDs to DMs, DMSs, and AVDs, so far so good as far as major changes go. I do have some extensive alterations to make with the funnel layouts and deckhouse equipment that was standard among the converted ships, not to mention how and what to use for the changes to be made. Again, it was good to hear from you again, and thank you in regards to the individual before mentioned, I did look up posted work from him and to my surprise there was NOTHING! Go figure, blast others but does not have work posted to be criticized by those who he criticizes. Either doesn't have the ability or doesn't have the courage to post works.

_________________
Jim Varnell
ABH2USN

"BATTLE STATIONS"

1/700 Scale PEARL HARBOR Complete Base Diorama
Every Ship and Vessel present on 7 December 1941
1/350 USS ALASKA CB-1 (75% COMPLETE)
1/350 USS TEXAS BB-35 (10% COMPLETE)

Hank,

Macclesfield NC is in Edgecombe County, I'm about 30 minutes from everywhere, Actually, I am 20 mins. from Tarboro, and 30 mins. from Greenville and Wilson, those are the biggest town around me, Macclesfield is a very small town that we have to pipe in sunlight and we do not have a stoplight or stop sign we have a "WOO" sign

I thank you for your support, and I too will be blocking the troll as I have received several indications from others about what he seems to always do, Maybe the moderators will take action with him. Yes, you know my capabilities as you have followed several of my other diorama projects threads and it is good to have support from another tar heel, and not the basketball team

_________________
Jim Varnell
ABH2USN

"BATTLE STATIONS"

1/700 Scale PEARL HARBOR Complete Base Diorama
Every Ship and Vessel present on 7 December 1941
1/350 USS ALASKA CB-1 (75% COMPLETE)
1/350 USS TEXAS BB-35 (10% COMPLETE)

DavidP,

Sorry for your health issues, but editing books and the like is fine if that is your thing, but when you troll a thread just to criticize someone for their interpretation of work they are doing is unjustly warranted, I am a Retired UNITED STATES NAVAL VETERAN and proudly served this country as did my father who retired with 21-1/2 years of service from serving in WW2 for 18 mths. then skipped Korea and served 20 yrs straight from 1957 to 1977, I served from 1989 -2000 and was medically retired due to injury, my daughter served from 2017 to 2022, and my sons both served as Marines, yet my youngest son who was a Marine is now serving in the US Navy, Our family has a very long military history and nearly 50 yrs with just my family, not to mention my nephew who served in the US Army, His grandfather was Henry Black, Sargent of the Marine Corps, so we do take our military history VERY SERIOUS and with all of our fellow service members, past, present, and future allow you Sir to enjoy the life you have, do not ever make the mistake that we take research for granted and Please Sir, understand this and let me make it VERY CLEAR to you,

Every time I build a model warship, I do my utmost best to make an accurate representation of the subject and spend countless hours researching the subject. With this diorama project, I have spent the past 9 months just researching every single ship, their design, conversions, their service record, their construction period, launch, status at the time of Pearl Harbor, location in the harbor, or around this island, watching countless hours of documentaries, reading book after book and book, studying builder blueprints when available, accessing more naval historical facilities than is possible by the average scale modeler, I take into account that I may NOT always find every bit of information regarding any one subject of warship but I DO make every effort to be as accurate as I possibly can. I am part of naval history myself, as being the first and only ABH in naval history to position an E-2C Hawkeye aircraft in a Non-Nuclear aircraft carrier hangar bay for a total wingspread and jack lift at the same time, as well as getting an appointment by Chief of Naval aviation via Congress to be a Crash and Salvage LPO & work center Supervisor (NCO) as a Petty Officer 3rd Class, a position (Billet) staffed by either an E-6 or E-7, I Sir, worked as the navy version as NTSB crash investigator afloat. So, please make no mistake as to my dedication to naval accuracy and doing my due diligence for my research into Pearl Harbor and the Naval Forces there on December 7th, 1941. So, if I have made an era that would be a disaster and destroyed historical accuracies then I have NO issue correcting that mistake, but you Sir, have blown WAY out of proportion a PT-boat that most people would not even notice on a diorama the size I am building, not to mention your disdain with portraying your naval history knowledge as the best information to be found, I sir, must say until you take on a structural project in the size and scope as this your opinions are just that "your opinion".

Therefore, Sir, this will conclude the ridiculous criticism you are having over a 1/700 scale, scratch-built PT boat that may have or not have had a dome on it and when it was transferred to the Royal Navy, MY INFORMATION is solid and has documented in several books, historical documentaries, not those created from "Hollywood" to interpret what Hollywood wants to portray.

And again Sir, I'm sorry for your being sick over the past year, but I to have been sick and have been diagnosed with an aggressive form of Parkinson's disease, and early onset dementia and I am only 51 years old now when a doctor tells you to get your affairs in order and your given medical paperwork regarding a living will and medical power of attorney, it is just a little bit more than eye-opening. There are 5 stages of Parkinson's, I went from stage 2 to stage 4 in a little over a year, stage 5 is when I go into the ground, so, Sir I regret your illness and being hospitalized 4 times in the past year, but I'll take that over this any day.
Best of luck with your future endeavors.

_________________
Jim Varnell
ABH2USN

"BATTLE STATIONS"

1/700 Scale PEARL HARBOR Complete Base Diorama
Every Ship and Vessel present on 7 December 1941
1/350 USS ALASKA CB-1 (75% COMPLETE)
1/350 USS TEXAS BB-35 (10% COMPLETE)

Jim,

Yes - Edgecomb County - I found it just after I posted my reply. Go to know!!! Compatriots in another part of NC!!!! And let me also add - THANK YOU for your family's service to our once proud nation.

I also appreciate your lengthy reply to the troll - 'nuff said on the matter.

Shall be very interested in seeing this project thru it's construction

Hank

_________________
HMS III
Mocksville, NC
BB62 vet 68-69

Builder's yard:
USS STODDARD (DD-566) 66-68 1:144, Various Lg Scale FC Directors
Finished:
USS NEW JERSEY (BB-62) 67-69 1:200
USN Sloop/Ship PEACOCK (1813) 1:48
ROYAL CAROLINE (1748) 1:47
AVS (1768) 1:48

_________________
Jim Varnell
ABH2USN

"BATTLE STATIONS"

1/700 Scale PEARL HARBOR Complete Base Diorama
Every Ship and Vessel present on 7 December 1941
1/350 USS ALASKA CB-1 (75% COMPLETE)
1/350 USS TEXAS BB-35 (10% COMPLETE)

Jim:

I easily found your small community courtesy of "Google Dirt". Reminds me of the Small town in Southern Illinois where I used to spend Summers with Grandmother. Laid out in a small square on a wide spot in the road, maybe a general store and small post office. Hotfooting it across the road in Summer, barefoot. Not too far from Albemarle Sound.

Cheers: Tom

David,
Very sorry for your medical issues, and if you know my whole story you would be amazed that I'm even alive, so I will tell you about what is my medical issues,

I was hit by and run over by a car in 1999, and it destroyed my left knee, that is why I was medically retired in 2000 from the Navy, could not pass the "Sea Duty Screening" anymore. Then on March 13th 2013, I was working on a machine and I was 35 feet in the air and a steam line blew apart and I was burned from my neck to my knees and after being in the JC burn center in Chapel Hill, NC I underwent multiple debridements and had to have skin grafts done to my left leg and inner thigh which left me unable to walk without the use of an afo brace as well as a rollator Walker, and The surge of adrenaline to my brain at the time of my accident is what triggered me to suffer with aortic AFib, and and the doctors believe that is what triggered the dopamine gland in my brain to shut down leaving me with the aggressive form of Parkinson's disease and if I have 2 years left I'll be lucky. For you sir my heart goes out to you but you are a survivor and you have lived with your medical issues your entire life, but you can imagine what my life has turned into with my diagnosis, I not only shake all the time, I have visual and audible hallucinations and the medication I have to take to control that is $100 per pill and a one month supply cost $3,000 and the other meds I have to take for the Parkinson's is artificial dopamine and if it wasn't for the VA I would not be here because I could not afford all that medication.

_________________
Jim Varnell
ABH2USN

"BATTLE STATIONS"

1/700 Scale PEARL HARBOR Complete Base Diorama
Every Ship and Vessel present on 7 December 1941
1/350 USS ALASKA CB-1 (75% COMPLETE)
1/350 USS TEXAS BB-35 (10% COMPLETE)

Jim:

Glad you are still with us. I've been involved in a lot of dangerous activities and have lost maybe two dozen of my friends, but those have generally been all or nothing deals. Not too many survivors in climbing and flying accidents. Those ones that nibble away, sometimes with big bites, require a lot of courage and determination. Glad you are working on this Pearl Harbor memorial, quite the project. Certainly we are more than willing to provide any assistance we can.

Best Regards! Tom

I am very excited about today, I am getting the materials to start the first table for the diorama, and I have decided to start with the shipyard and drydock area. I don't have any particular reason for this just had to pick a spot to start, and most everyone who does some form of this subject usually starts with Ford Island, so I wanted to be different and challenge myself, This seems to me as the more difficult area to work and with starting there I can adjust things easier and not to mention this area will have a massive amount of work and lighting.

I am toying with the idea of adding animatronics to some of the cranes to have them rotate, I'm not 100% sure if I can put it off but I have some ideas and some spare cranes to try with, NO, NO, NO I can NOT make the Hammerhead Crane rotate as it is the AMW photoetch crane and I cannot risk destroying it, but I can try to build the Hammerhead Crane out of styrene at a later date and see if I can add a motor to it. But for now, it is going to be a static display.

Also, Tom hey buddy I might just call on you for some 3-D printing items since you are the only one I know that is working with this medium. I have some thoughts that after I process them we might be able to work something out for this project.

_________________
Jim Varnell
ABH2USN

"BATTLE STATIONS"

1/700 Scale PEARL HARBOR Complete Base Diorama
Every Ship and Vessel present on 7 December 1941
1/350 USS ALASKA CB-1 (75% COMPLETE)
1/350 USS TEXAS BB-35 (10% COMPLETE)

Jim:

Of course happy to be of assistance. Your fellow Tarheel Hank Strub is also a fellow 3D guy and we have collaborated on a number of projects. An advantage of 3D is we can share files via the internet and since we are using the same design program tailor to our particular needs. Going as small as 1:700 the DAP's (Dinky, as parts) sometimes need some beefing up of the finer parts to print properly. Generally I could print down to 1:192 without much modification. Another advantage is ability to replicate in great numbers. I replaced all the 20 and 40 mm AA on Alaska (192) with my printed designs, previously I had Pontos stuff, but I liked my stuff better. It took forever to assemble all the light AA but quite handy to just print them.

Regards: Tom

Back in the day (mid 80's or so) we went to a boat show at the Convention Hall (Asbury Park) and there was a scale display of PH in 700 scale (?) with waterline ships. It was huge and well done. I remember it as I was starting to collect/build in this scale but the only models were of IJN vessels with few exceptions.

Does anyone recall this display as I believe it was set up at many other boat shows in the NJ-NY-Ct area?

_________________
Jim Varnell
ABH2USN

"BATTLE STATIONS"

1/700 Scale PEARL HARBOR Complete Base Diorama
Every Ship and Vessel present on 7 December 1941
1/350 USS ALASKA CB-1 (75% COMPLETE)
1/350 USS TEXAS BB-35 (10% COMPLETE)

Jim,

Interesting stuff - The Shitty Kitty!!!! We (USS STODDARD DD-566) were one of her escorts for WestPac 66-67 and I spent a week on board at North Island going thru air/sea rescue of downed pilots - had to acquaint ourselves with the various aircraft that would be on board for that cruise. Quite an interesting TAD. Our ship's small group (4) never got to man the whaleboat as downed crewmen were always picked up by choppers - they were quicker to the scene, etc. I did spend a week in sick bay on KITTY coming out of our Hong Kong visit and got a chopper ride back to Ole STOD a week later as were were in the Tonkin Gulf by then. Quite fun!!!

Will be looking in to see how things develop here.

Hank

_________________
HMS III
Mocksville, NC
BB62 vet 68-69

Builder's yard:
USS STODDARD (DD-566) 66-68 1:144, Various Lg Scale FC Directors
Finished:
USS NEW JERSEY (BB-62) 67-69 1:200
USN Sloop/Ship PEACOCK (1813) 1:48
ROYAL CAROLINE (1748) 1:47
AVS (1768) 1:48