The Ship Model Forum

...And speaking of the turrets of the Arizona (and also Nevada and Oklahoma)...

It's always stuck me that the gun look really quite long. For example, here's a picture from nearly directly overhead of Nevada:



One problem with many kits is that the gun are too far apart. This is true for both the Dragon and Hi-Mold kits of the Arizona. Here's a comparison of the 3D printed turret (grey on the left) with the Hi-Mold turret (green, on the right). I've aligned the turrets so the lower gun holes align, causing misalignment at the top to highlight the difference in the gun separation.

Also, the guns on the Dragon kit are too short. Combined with the guns being too far apart, the look is quite a bit off. In the last photo, I've replaced turret #1 of the Dragon kit with the 3D printed turret and brass gun barrels. I installed the brass barrels so that their length matches the photo of Nevada.

Mike

on the Arizona's turrets, the distance from the bottom of the flat face of the turret to the extreme end of the turret is 474.5" so at 1/700 scale that would be .6778" or 17.217mm. the width of the roof of the turret is 232" so at 1/700 scale, that would be .3314" or 8.418mm. the center to center of the holes in the turret face for the 14" guns is 51.5" or at 1/700 scale is .0735" or 1.8907mm. I have the turret technical drawings for both the Nevada & Pennsylvania classes.
from the top of the sloped turret face where it meets the turret roof to the frontend of the 14" gun barrel is 463" or at 1/700 scale, would be .6614" or 16.8002mm.

Hello:

Some progress has been made on Nevada. The comments below aren't complaints, and I think the 3D printed parts are wonderful. I have found a few gotchas:

- This is my first time working with the 3D printed resin. It's a little more brittle than I am used to. I accidentally snapped off a range finder off of a turret, but at least it was a clean snap and I was able to glue it back on. Chalk that up as a lesson learned.

- On the 3D printed turrets, the pivot pin in the middle of the twin turrets is 2 mm in diameter but 1 mm in diameter for the triple turrets. I started working on a twin turret first by chance, saw the 2 mm pivot pin, and drilled holes in the tops of the barbettes accordingly. Only later, when I started working with the triple turrets, I found the fit was sloppy, and I found the issue. I plugged the over sized holes in the triple turret barbettes with sprue and re-drilled them.

- Also regarding the 3D printed turrets, the holes for the guns are a *TINY* bit bigger on the twin turrets. The kit brass barrels are a nice slip fit into the holes of the twin turrets, but I need to open up the holes a smidge to get a press fit on the triple turrets. In the picture, the guns are dry fitted into the turrets, so the alignment is still a bit wonky.

- Main tripod mast: the kit directs you to use 1 mm brass rod for the tripod legs, but the holes in the decks and platforms are closer to 1.5 mm diameter. This is good, as that's closer to the size the tripod legs ought to be. The fit of lower rangefinder platform will be a struggle, as it's too wide to fit between the two fore legs of the tripod. However, the platform on the fore-mast has 1 mm holes in it. It'd odd how the platforms have different size holes.

Update: 1.5 mm diameter main mast looked a bit too big. I remeasured photos, and it seems that 1.2 mm is closer to the right value, so I'll go with that. I got more experience plugging holes and drilling them out to the smaller size.

Mike

AO-23 USS Neosho General Arrangement Details (1940) https://archive.org/details/ao23gad1940

Hello:

Could you post, or make available, the drawings of the gun turrets? I expect that many visitors here would be interested.

Mike

there is 14 files for a total of 40.4mb for the Pennsylvania class so cannot post here due to file sizes. they can pm me with their email address so can send in 3 batches.
this link includes turret dimensions. BB-41 USS Mississippi Armor Scheme (1915) https://archive.org/details/bb41gad1915
https://archive.org/details/ship-design-drawings

I've started mocking up the tripod masts for Oklahoma, Nevada, and Arizona. This is with 1.2 mm brass. A lot of holes had to be filled and drilled. So far there is no glue...everything is dry fit.

It was only while measuring out the fore-mast height, and plugging in a fore-mast to Arizona that really didn't look right, did I realize something that should have been pretty obvious: the superstructure on Arizona has one more deck than Oklahoma and Nevada.

Mike

BB-37 USS Oklahoma Booklet of General Plans (1941) https://archive.org/details/bb37bogp1941
BB-39 USS Arizona Booklet of General Plans (1941) https://archive.org/details/bb39bogp1941
https://archive.org/details/ship-design-drawings

I made jigs to hold/align the guns before they're glued into the turrets. The goal is to hold the guns all at exactly the same elevation, and the right length. This is so that the guns of each turret are all aligned, but also so that all of the turrets are identical. There are 4 twin turrets and 8 triple turrets to make consistent. The jig for the twin turret is a bit different since the twin turret barbette is smaller, and so the distance from the pivot point to the ends of the barrels is a bit different compared to the triple turrets.

Each jig is just a flat piece of sheet plastic with a hole drilled for the turret pivot. There is a 1.0 mm thick piece of sheet that the end of the barrels rest on, which sets the elevation. The vertical end piece sets the length of the barrels. In the photos, the left/right alignment of the barrels is a bit wonky since I haven't glued anything in yet.

I'll need to make new jigs for Tennessee/California (which had longer guns) and Maryland/West Virginia (which had bigger and longer guns).

Mike

Looking good so far! I have a similar barrel alignment jig I made, but out of card stock and toothpicks; I should make newer ones like yours, they're probably more durable/consistent.

_________________
-Abram
ModelWarships Gallery Page
Joslin Models Facebook Page

Manini progress to report, as I've mostly been working on the Enterprise.

I've tried a number of paints to see what I like for the wood decks. Here are photos of my paint test ship, wearing 6 different colors on the deck. Each is labeled, except on the bow which is a roughly 50-50 mix of deck tan and Iraqi sand.

Deck tan: Ok match for Wisconsin. Otherwise, not 'warm' or orange/brown enough.
Beige: Just too yellow. Not a good match for any
Khaki: About as dark as Iowa and Missouri, but a bit too green and not enough brown.
Iraqi Sand: Ok match to Alabama, Massachusetts, stern of North Carolina
Stone Grey: Ok match to most of North Carolina and New Jersey.

I'm curious as to what y'all think. I'm personally leaning towards Iraqi Sand or Stone Grey, but I may not use the same color on all of the decks.

Cheers
Mike

gee ! I love this project !

_________________
In 1:700 we trust

There are three kinds of people: the living, the dead and those who go to sea.

Have you considered using a wash over the base color, with something like burnt umber? Makes a big difference. Adds red brown tones.

If the USN was still holystoning the decks at the time the deck color should be much lighter, a very light gray. Almost white. If they did not the deck would weather to a more beige color but still very light. I use Tamiya XF 55 with various amounts of flat white (XF2) mixed in.

Making progress on Oklahoma and Nevada

1) The superstructure deck is too long on both OK and NV, and overhangs the deck break. This is most noticeable as the base of the crane (molded in with the hull) and the part molded with the superstructure deck don't align. The front end of the deck goes up against the #2 turret barbette, so the solution is to grind away about a mm at the front, which brings the back into alignment.

2) I got the Tom's PE set made specifically for Nevada and Oklahoma. Curiously, their distinct #3 turret catapult is on a separate PE set and need to be purchased separately. PE set in hand, I could start on the superstructure decks. On Oklahoma, a post supporting the search lights on the signal bridge had broken off of the superstructure deck casting. I replaced both with 1 mm plastic rod.

Getting the superstructure in the right place will be a bit weird. There is no positive locators for the parts that actually glue to the deck. Really the only location reference are those search light posts and the round pads for the search light on the signal bridge level. I think I'll need to glue the captain's cabin to the bottom of the signal bridge level, and the conning tower to the front, then put that assembly onto the superstructure deck.

Mike

did you have a look at the plans I linked above?

FFG-7: The sets of drawings are really useful. With a little digging I also found a set of drawings for West Virginia as well. When I've been working on Nevada and Oklahoma, I have these plans open in front of me as the kit instructions are 'inspirational' at best. For things like placing the posts under the chart house, or leaving gaps in the railings for the ladders on the back of the superstructure decks, these drawings are the only reference I have. Just last night I found some mods that I'll make to the kit around the base of the main mast.

Dan K: Regarding washes over the base color, I have thought about it. I've done some of that on my Price of Wales kit that I'm using to test some (new to me) techniques. For me, painting the decks always needs some back and forth with alternating touchups of the deck color and the gray color. So the wash gets applied after the deck and gray parts are painted nice and tidy. A challenge for me has been to get the wash all the way into the corners, so that the corners don't look different than the more open areas of the deck. Suggestions are welcome. Maybe I need to do more layers of thinner washes?

Mike

Mike -

So, I tend to do my decks before adding any parts or details. That way, I get the deck color/pattern down without much concern for what would become those hard to get places. Adding a deck mask then protects the deck from any gray paint coat.

Before I start the wash, I sealed the deck with an acrylic gloss coat. I apply the burnt umber (oil based) liberally, spreading it with a turpentine (or turpenoid) dampened piece of paper towel and Q tip for certain angles. At which point, I can go two ways. One is to to just keep swiping the deck with the wash infused towel until all the seams are filled and the wash lightened or darkened to the extent that I want. Or, two, apply it liberally, let it dry, then return with a turpentine (or turpenoid) dampened piece of paper towel/Q tip and wipe it down to the extent that I want. The results are pretty much the same; maybe the latter version comes out a bit darker.

HTH.

AAAAARRRRGGGGHHHH!

I was having trouble getting the main mast tripod right on Oklahoma and Nevada. The three poles were coming together at the top right. I realized that the two dimples cast into the deck are too close together, and they ought to be farther apart. So I drilled two new holes the appropriate distance outboard of the existing dimples.

Metrology problems continued. After more frustration, I realized that the two dimples aren't centered on the centerline! So time to fill my new holes and drill two more holes, plus the afore mentioned offending dimples.

Mike

look at Sheet 5 - Bridges & Superstructure Deck of the Oklahoma plans I have linked before about the mast leg locations.