The Ship Model Forum

She's a beauty Randy

John

Truly superb.

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After 5 years, I'm done. I poured about four layers of a special model railroad liquid onto the base for the Montana battleship I built in the last 3 weeks, let it cure, and this is how it now looks: V





And the plaque in this pic: V


.....reads as the following: "USS MONTANA, BB-67 Battleship" with an American flag on the left and a Montana State flag on the right.
I do regret that I didn't make any waves or ripples in the liquid product to show the ship if it had been moving through an ocean. I'm sorry I let everyone down on this. I really didn't feel comfortable with doing that and wasn't sure of my abilities. If I want to make waves, I'll practice first on some smaller and simpler ships, but not on a big project like this that's about to go to a major contest soon. So I decided to show the ship "at anchor" with the chains lowered. I don't really care what people might think of the base or the water. It's the ship itself that's important. The ship is the "main meal" so to speak and is what everyone will be looking at. The base and water are like the parsley or gravy that enhances or adds flavor to the meal. It helps the meal look nice, but isn't that important in the long run.
Anyway, the contest I'm going to is a little over a week away. I'm really excited. And even if I don't win anything, that's ok. I just want to go and see the other models, have a good time, and meet old friends I haven't seen in a long time. Wish me luck.

VERY GOOD JOB... AS A FUTURE BUILDER OF THE SAME MODEL I THINK YOU HAVE ESTABLISHED THE FOUNDATION FOR DEPICTING THIS CLASS OF SHIPS.
DO NOT WARRY ABOUT THE WATER.. YOU CAN ALWAYS MAKE IT MORE REALISTIC. ONCE YOU HAVE MASTERED THE TECHNIQUE IT IS EASY. AND IT WILL NOT SHOW TOO...
I HAVE NOT STARTED MY MODEL YET BECAUSE I AM WORKING ON ANOTHER ONE RIGHT NOW (USS NORTH CAROLINA) BUT EVERYTIME YOU GUYS POST SOMETHING MAKES ME MORE EAGER...
BY THE WAY, FROM WHOM DO YOU THINK I SHOULD GET THE WELDED PARTS AND OTHER MISCELLANEUOUS?? I AM THINKING OF L'ARSENAL, SINCE THEY ARE BASED IN EUROPE BUT EVERY SUGGESION IS APPRECIATED...

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NIKOS (NICK)
ΜΕΓΑ ΤΟ ΤΗΣ ΘΑΛΑΣΣΗΣ ΚΡΑΤΟΣ
(GREAT IS THE NATION THAT MASTERS THE SEAS)

She looks great. And you have the right attitude - "I just want to go and see the other models, have a good time, and meet old friends I haven't seen in a long time." Best of luck, have a blast. Hope ya win best ship!

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Martin

"Tomorrow is the most important thing in life. Comes into us at midnight very clean. It's perfect when it arrives and it puts itself in our hands. It hopes we've learned something from yesterday." John Wayne

Ship Model Gallery

EJM...

First, GOOD LUCK. While I've never entered any models into contests, I do know it is not easy to put your work up to open scrutiny/direct judgement. Again, good luck!

Next, well done! I like the overall effect. While it may not have been what you were originally after, as you say, I think the base emphasizes the ship, which is a good thing. Regardless of how the contest turns out, I for one think you've done outstanding work (please let us know how many other Montanas are at the show ).

- Randy

I would dare say not likely to be many more Montanas at the show. She'd be one of those rare ships.

Randy, you are crazy, man. You keep adding to your Montana, but the forward block really does help unify the whole look. It's worth the effort definately. Looking quite impressive.

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Die Panzerschiffe - Putting the Heavy in Heavy Cruiser since 1940.

It's not Overkill, it's Insurance.

If you think my plastic is crazy, check out my Line Art!
http://s37.photobucket.com/albums/e58/S ... %20Images/

Thanks for the well wishes and compliments. I'll definately be taking lots of pics at the contest to show everyone here.

Well, I guess this just about wraps up my involvement in this thread. My ship is done. It's now time to pass the torch on to the future Montana builders. May all future Montana builders have fair winds and smooth seas in their building processes. I wish you good luck. *salutes*

EDIT: For my next project to discuss somewhere on these ship forums, I'll be doing Project Habakkuk.

Man EJM, to me your work is great. Your the one who built her first and gave her that OHHH MAN look. Congrats EJM.

Got some more work in over the last two evenings... here's a mockup of the current state of affairs. I've added two 20mm galleries - one just forward of the aft FCT, and one at the forward stack. Another will go between the two 40mm tubs in the area between the stacks. Also got a first coat of primer around the bridge area looking for defects, since this part of the superstructure has to be finish-painted prior to assembly.

Another change: I wasn't too happy with the way the aft house looked aft of the FCT, so I cut it down a deck. I think it's starting to come together "ok" now.

I have a question concerning the small enclosed area directly beneath the bridge deck. On Iowa the enclosed bridge itself had transverse bulkheads which closed off the area aft: does anyone know if the same is true for the deck below? See the next-to-last image, directly behind the right-most 40mm...

My apologies if it is considered bad form to include so many photos in post... it's late, my daughter and I are watching Zoolander, and I'm too lazy to put these on a webpage

-Randy

[img]http://www.digivision.com/rsm/Montana/MU0223-1.JPG[/img]

[img]http://www.digivision.com/rsm/Montana/MU0223-2.JPG[/img]

[img]http://www.digivision.com/rsm/Montana/MU0223-3.JPG[/img]

[img]http://www.digivision.com/rsm/Montana/MU0223-4.JPG[/img]

[img]http://www.digivision.com/rsm/Montana/MU0223-5.JPG[/img]

[img]http://www.digivision.com/rsm/Montana/MU0223-6.JPG[/img]

I do not think they lower enclosed deck had transverse bulkheads. On page 66 of Paul Stillwell's book "battleship Missoyri" is a photo of the surrender ceremony of Japan. One can clearly see people standing there. By the way some of them are positioned one can guess that there was not a bulkhead.

A suggestion I would like to make is why not elevate two of the 5" guns a deck? And make a joint one. Since you are not using the boats and cranes for the build, why not place the 2nd and the 4th gun mount not on a square but on a deck extension of the main superstructure?

I also have another question in general: Which AA gun enplacement did the U.S. navy consider more effective? The quad 40mm or the 20mm guns? When disigning a ship would the designers prefer many 40mm guns or many 20mm guns? Or would they balance the numbers of these guns?

Very nice job Randy!!! Very nice...

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NIKOS (NICK)
ΜΕΓΑ ΤΟ ΤΗΣ ΘΑΛΑΣΣΗΣ ΚΡΑΤΟΣ
(GREAT IS THE NATION THAT MASTERS THE SEAS)

I have ordered these parts for my Montana. I think these will do the job, not only raise the cost, which by the way is out of proportions already...

WEM 1/350 WWII USN Light AA Weapons
WEM 1/350 USN Cable Reels (20 pcs)
BMK 1/350 US 5"/38 - Missouri (20 barrels)
BMK 1/350 US 16"/50 Barrels (18 barrels)
L'Arsenal 1/350 Quad 40mm Bofors (12 guns)
L'Arsenal 1/350 Twin Oerlikons (20 guns)
Paper Lab 1/350 USN Mk. 51 Directors (10 pcs)
Paper Lab 1/350 USN 24" Searchlight (8 pcs)
Paper Lab 1/350 USN 36" Searchlight (8 pcs)
L'Arsenal 1/350 Mk 37 mod 11 Directors (8 pcs)

The kit already icludes pe set but the cast parts are far from adequate...

_________________
NIKOS (NICK)
ΜΕΓΑ ΤΟ ΤΗΣ ΘΑΛΑΣΣΗΣ ΚΡΑΤΟΣ
(GREAT IS THE NATION THAT MASTERS THE SEAS)

By the end of the war the 40mm was much preferred. The 20mm was a good weapon, but it did not have enough stopping power for Kamikaze attacks. The 40mm put more metal in the air and - as it was four guns in one - fired a lot faster than the 20mm. By late 1945, though, even the 40mm wasn't considered sufficient, and the new 3" gun mounts were showing up on new construction.

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GT13: thanks for the info. Regarding 20mm vs 40mm... Squadron's US Battleships in Action makes what I think is a very good point on pg. 31:

"A measure of each gun's popularity can be seen in the length of its postwar service: the Oerlikons disappeared at the end of WWII; the Bofors remained, in reduced numbers, until after the Korean War; the 5in/38 remains in use today."

Of course, as Devin mentions it's really a matter of the intended role you are trying to accomplish: I doubt any of these guns were designed to effectively defeat a kamikaze attack.

Regarding the add-ons: my list is virtually identical to yours. While I was already familiar with WEM, GMM, etc. and personally think their products are top-notch, I was equally pleased with the offerings from BMK, L'Arsenal, and Paper Labs (don't let that name put you off). FWIW, I just received some searchlights from Paper Labs: in a word, they are GORGEOUS. Ditto their 20mm ammo lockers. I'm not a huge fan of repetitive tasks but the armament from L'Arsenal goes together VERY well - a lot of thought has obviously gone into their design. I also experimented with LionRoar 40mm, but found their photo-etched barrels to be not quite substantial enough for my tastes.

Might it be worth locating some of these 3" mounts for use on a Montana? By the time they'd have been theoretically completed they'd probably mount a couple...

Nice gun but i think that the rateof fire would have been too slow for the kind of aa weapon needed. I think it is more propable to mount quadraple 40mm guns and double 20mm guns for closer protection then the 3" guns.
Keep in mind that the theory of a ship's defense is that your ship's weapons have many different circles of effectives, starting from the largest guns to sthe smallest. Moreover the 5"/38 guns could do the same thing with the 3" guns.

_________________
NIKOS (NICK)
ΜΕΓΑ ΤΟ ΤΗΣ ΘΑΛΑΣΣΗΣ ΚΡΑΤΟΣ
(GREAT IS THE NATION THAT MASTERS THE SEAS)

Uh, GT... you made a mistake. The 5" guns on Montana were actually not supposed to be 5" 38cal as per Missouri, but they were planned to be twin 5" 54cal as used on a couple of other ships in single mounts. They were to be the first ship carrying the longer guns.

_________________
Die Panzerschiffe - Putting the Heavy in Heavy Cruiser since 1940.

It's not Overkill, it's Insurance.

If you think my plastic is crazy, check out my Line Art!
http://s37.photobucket.com/albums/e58/S ... %20Images/

Oh no....
I ordered the 5"/38 gun barrels. I did not know that. The ADAMS class had 5"/54 single gun mounts. Superb gun. But I do not think anyone will notice the difference. Did the new guns also have different towers? Does anybody have a photo? Or a link were I will find one?

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NIKOS (NICK)
ΜΕΓΑ ΤΟ ΤΗΣ ΘΑΛΑΣΣΗΣ ΚΡΑΤΟΣ
(GREAT IS THE NATION THAT MASTERS THE SEAS)

From what I've seen, the gun towers were rather similar to Iowa, twin mounts, with the longer 54 caliber guns. Montana and her sisters were the only ones that considered twin mounts for the guns. And you're right, not many people who aren't pulling out a tape measure won't notice the difference in the smaller guns. Hell, my German 406mm L52's are only half an inch, at 1/700, longer than the 38cm L52's, and that's a whole 32" difference in gun barrels. Well, ok, if you happened to put a 5/54 beside a 5/38, it'd be noticable, but unless somebody's read up on the class and knows the 54's should be on there, they'd just think it fit in line with the rest of the USN battleships. 80 inches of missing gun barrel, at 350 scale, it's still just short of a quarter inch. It's nothing, unless you're really bean counting. Besides, you're gonna have 20 of them... if you wanted, you could set them aside for another project if you wanted. Who knows, it's up to you.

_________________
Die Panzerschiffe - Putting the Heavy in Heavy Cruiser since 1940.

It's not Overkill, it's Insurance.

If you think my plastic is crazy, check out my Line Art!
http://s37.photobucket.com/albums/e58/S ... %20Images/

Hmmmmmmmmm... I have a South Dakota kit waiting for me to start. Nice idea. The 5"/38s go to the So.Da. and now...
Where will I find 5"/54 barrels???
I also need a picture...

_________________
NIKOS (NICK)
ΜΕΓΑ ΤΟ ΤΗΣ ΘΑΛΑΣΣΗΣ ΚΡΑΤΟΣ
(GREAT IS THE NATION THAT MASTERS THE SEAS)